3) Genre conventions: I find it hard to believe how rigid some peoples mind is about what is "right" or "wrong" in a certain genre... insert the smallest dose of steampunk into your cookie cutter tolkien fantasy, and some people will grasp for their torches and pitchforks.

I was told once "mixing fantasy and present day / science fiction doesn't work, there is no fanbase for that" when suggesting that for a game. That certainly is not true, though the fanbase of orcs in space certainly is smaller than the fanbase of fantasy orcs in loinclothes or cookie cutter aliens in space. But the point is that there are people evangelizing the "you cannot do that, like, ever!" sentiment, and being quite vocal about it.

Warhammer 40k is the most well known game (available in many forms) that takes Orks into space. It seems to have it's dedicated fanbase.

Its kind of a trope -- same as "space marines". We tend to like and make these things because they're established enough to be familiar, yet they're not closed systems so we can change and expand without alienating people. Fantasy also spans a wide berth though, so probably seems bigger than what's objectively Tolkien-esque -- for example, I wouldn't say that the Final Fantasy or Dragon Warrior franchises have much in common with Tolkien's world, even if they took some inspiration from it; but they do very much fall under the heading of Fantasy.

I do agree though that there are other worlds and mythos and real cultures that are largely untapped. There are relatively few games that tap Norse mythology, for instance, or (especially outside of Japan) the Japanese feudal period or themes of, say, Bushido; almost no games have explored African themes, Native American themes, Central American themes, or South American themes. Very few games have explored a more-or-less contemporary setting for game styles most-closely associated with fantasy or historic settings (Earthbound is a notable example). American West themes are pretty untapped (check out Boot Hill Heroes).

There's inspiration everywhere and its a shame games haven't branched out more.

I think there are some games that use Norse mythology? I can't say I remember very well which ones. But also, the new God of War is going to be Norse.

Certainly there is a lot of possibility from African, Native American, Central American, South American, and Asian (South and East) themes but I think the major reason we don't see very many of those style of games is because most devs aren't too familiar themselves with those themes. Japanese devs are fairly familiar with Asian stuff, so I've seen some fairly common themes there as well.

There's definitely untapped potential out there...

I'd love to play some kind of a Bethesda-style Wild West RPG, if they weren't busy rehashing Tamriel and Fallout.

Or a Carribean pirate RPG that's not Pirates! Gold or the remake.

One game that I can't believe hasn't been made (well) is a Roman gladiator simulator/management game. First-person Mount&Blade style combat for arena matches mixed with something like a business simulator for running a ludus.

A good remake of Darklands...

A Bronze Age RPG modeled on the Odyssey or the Aeneid.

Monty Python and the Holy Grail - The Game. Help, help, I'm being repressed!

For the Wild West one, Red Dead Redemption comes to mind? I believe it's an RPG? Maybe I'm wrong. There was also Assassin's Creed Black Flag, tho it's not a true RPG either.

In general, fantasy RPGs I think are getting more popular for two reasons. One is that people are really familiar with the setting (devs and players alike) and that we see more fantasy in popular media these days too (think Game of Thrones, etc.).

Can I shift the talkt to....why the fuck wizards dont use heavy armor? Lore is not an excuse, change the lore. Now imagine some wizardly heavy armor with slots to magic runes...join me on this one..having a "supportive" class that rely on backup is stupid u_u**. Logically thinking, armor would only bother ppl who need freedom of movement, like monks, thiefs, etc. I blame tolkien and consecutive d&d stuff.

Can I shift the talkt to....why the fuck wizards dont use heavy armor? Lore is not an excuse, change the lore. Now imagine some wizardly heavy armor with slots to magic runes...join me on this one..having a "supportive" class that rely on backup is stupid u_u**. Logically thinking, armor would only bother ppl who need freedom of movement, like monks, thiefs, etc. I blame tolkien and consecutive d&d stuff.

At least in D&D, it's because wizards need their limbs free to spellcast, which for spells with somatic components requires fairly intricate gestures. Heavy armor prevents that. When I get around to running a campaign, I'll likely have a house rule that allow wizards to wear heavy armor, at the cost of spells with somatic components (which would be most of them).

3) Genre conventions: I find it hard to believe how rigid some peoples mind is about what is "right" or "wrong" in a certain genre... insert the smallest dose of steampunk into your cookie cutter tolkien fantasy, and some people will grasp for their torches and pitchforks.

I was told once "mixing fantasy and present day / science fiction doesn't work, there is no fanbase for that" when suggesting that for a game. That certainly is not true, though the fanbase of orcs in space certainly is smaller than the fanbase of fantasy orcs in loinclothes or cookie cutter aliens in space. But the point is that there are people evangelizing the "you cannot do that, like, ever!" sentiment, and being quite vocal about it.

Warhammer 40k is the most well known game (available in many forms) that takes Orks into space. It seems to have it's dedicated fanbase.

Yes, it does.... and it has been around for decades. And it exists in kind of a vacuum, as there are very little other games that dare to be as openly "fantasy in space" as 40k... yet Games Workshop seems pretty much using the Science Fiction monicker if anything. Of course to distinguish it from Warhammer Fantasy... but also because the broad audience they target since 3rd edition would not understand what "Fantasy in Space" is.

Just as Star Wars was always missnamed as Science Fiction... with Disney behind the steering wheel, this will not get better.

This exception just proves the general rule if you ask me. Yes, there is a dedicated fanbase (and I am a pretty die hard fan of "Fantasy with guns" or "Fantasy in Space"... while being pretty anal about the abuse of the word "Science Fiction" nowadays).... yes, this fanbase is larger than you might think.

But: many fans are just seeing it as "Science Fiction" (there are MANY 40k fans that are turned off by the fantasy, steampunk and gothic elements of 40k. Hence the Imperial army got a more 2nd WW / Present day styling late in 2nd edition, hence all the "Alien" races (Tyranids, Tau) where introduced (as opposed to the "Fantasy Aliens" (Orks, Elves, Skaven, Dwarves) that were run of the mill during 1st and early 2nd edition), hence the Space Marines became more technical looking during late 2nd / early 3rd edition reworks (which in turn played into the demand for "more gothic" space marine chapters), hence the in my opinion coolest factions, the Inquisition and Sisters of Battle, have a very rough standing and get updated once in a decade at best.

Not to mention many of the cooler factions, like the Mechanicum, not getting official support from GW directly. Its awesome that Forgeworld took up the task by now, but that is after more than 20 years of zero support (Could be 25 years, was there anything mechanicum related coming out during 2nd edition?).

That is why one of the best releases of GW, the Inquisitor Roleplaying game, died quitly after a way too short lifetime. There are newer roleplaying games from other publishers that seem to fare better, but most probably only because they are cheaper to produce.

Fact is, 40k wouldn't be so healthy if they would concentrate on the "Fantasy in Space" aspect as much as in the beginnings. 40k was pretty much the brainchild of diehard Heavy metal and fantasy fans... thus a very gothic, brutal, and fantasy infused universe. That is where it all started.

The more it grew, the more diverse it became, with the original gothic and fantasy themes becoming more subdued. Seems to me like even IF that wasn't what drove popularity up, at least GW thought it would. Given their long expierience producing Tabletop games, that says something.

Also, if we look at the most popular factions in 40k (tabletop game, my data is now a decade old as I have not been very active in the last few years), it has been Space Marines (mostly little gothic elements save the mandatory skulls, mostly technical sci-fi faction) taking up more than 50%, Imperial guard (the faction created simply for attracting some 2nd Worldwar fans) being a distant second, Orks (given a more fantasy element, GW has managed to transform the Orks away from their fantasy root, they are now the Heavy Metal / Loot / Mad Max based faction with very little in common with the fantasy orcs besides looks) behind...

Eldar seem to be in the middle (Pretty much standard high tech race with some strong story behind them, with pointy ear looks) trading blows with orks, while the Tau seem to have overtaken them (one of the new alien races without any fantasy roots) lately.

Tyranids and Chaos were alway quite popular, though I don't know where they should be placed. I would place the Chaos before Orks, Eldar and Tau, just behind the human/imperial factions... and while Chaos has A LOT of fantasy influences (not Tolkien, more "Elric of Melnibogne" though), and GW using a shared background for the Chaos factions in both WH 40k and fantasy, the Tyranids are again an Alien race which has its roots in the Alien movies, not in fantasy.

The Necrons (Undead in space meets Terminator) were never that popular... might have changed with newer editions and increased support by GW though.

And then, at the end of the food chain, come all the factions that resemble the original WH40k best: Demon Hunters, Witch hunter and Sister of Battle... I think the Grey Knights have become a little bit more popular when GW shifted the focus of the Demon Hunters away from the Inquisitors and to their Elite Space Marine Henchmen, with the result of yet-another-Space-Marine-Chapter...

Long story short: at least 60-70% of players play races that have been designed (or redesigned) to appeal to people that the original WH40k didn't appeal to. They have no resemblance to fantasy races (or lost them along the way), they have a backstory that is at least 70% pseudo-sci-fi (you know, the fiction that sells you fantasy for science :)), and only small remnants of the 40k fantasy roots remain (psi powers for example).

I would dare to say the reason WHY 40k is such a huge success is because they toned down the fantasy elements, streamlined styling and backstory so everyone finds something in it (and you don't have to like gothic and skulls to find a faction to play with).

Can I shift the talkt to....why the fuck wizards dont use heavy armor? Lore is not an excuse, change the lore. Now imagine some wizardly heavy armor with slots to magic runes...join me on this one..having a "supportive" class that rely on backup is stupid u_u**. Logically thinking, armor would only bother ppl who need freedom of movement, like monks, thiefs, etc. I blame tolkien and consecutive d&d stuff.

I guess its a game design constraint. Given that Wizards are able to cast spells with quite some range, you would have a unit with high defense, high offense AND range.

That might prove quite overpowered.

Like the Jedis are, they might not have armour, but with their "auto-deflection of laser bolts" they have a pretty perfect defense against ranged attacks, are hard to beat in close combat (save by another jedi), all the while being able to use the force to attack opponents at range... if that isn't overpowered I don't know what is... yes, I know that is working from the movies not games, and not taking into account the flexibility of the powerlevel (film characters are always as powerful as needed for the story, save very few movies that actually bend the story so the characters "powerlevel" is consistent).

Also, add to that the fact Wizards are generally seen to be humans who devoted most of their time studying books and spells, and thus have a rather underdeveloped physique... wearing armour is not fitting in this case (as the wizard would get too tired to walk in minutes).

So gamedesign AND generic backstory of fantasy wizards tend to favour NOT giving wizards armour (though the backstory explanation for that is quite crap in some instances.... "Metals disturbing the winds of magic"... and next sentence, you read about wizards able to influence metallic objects, like render guns unusable. And below that about magical armour made from stone, or seashell, or other nonmetallic substances. Story consistency right there...)

To me anyways, it seems fantasy RPGs are everywhere. I don't understand why people like them so much. To me, they all seem to share the same basic Tolkien inspired fantasy world. The developers of Pillars of Eternity just announced a sequel is in development, but on the surface how is it any different than Sacred, Dungeon Siege or Neverwinter Nights? The same could be said for other game genres as well. Are developers scared of trying something new? If they do try something new, are they afraid people won't like it/try it?

There are definitely rich, untapped worlds to explore. I would *LOVE* to have a Jade Empire meets Morrowind or an Egyptian RPG. We don't know what a Skyrim-like game set in India during the Mughals would be like nor a Witcher-like experience modelled after Mansa Musa's empire. That's really a shame.

Sadly it's becoming fashionable in some quarters to pillory and hound creators who explore other cultures. J.K. Rowling has gotten flak for weaving in a Native American mythos into her worlds. Mobs have hounded Warhorse Studies for depicting of a province within the Holy Roman Empire. Whatever this turn is, it's contemptible and will only retard adoption of non-Tolkein content into games.

To me anyways, it seems fantasy RPGs are everywhere. I don't understand why people like them so much. To me, they all seem to share the same basic Tolkien inspired fantasy world. The developers of Pillars of Eternity just announced a sequel is in development, but on the surface how is it any different than Sacred, Dungeon Siege or Neverwinter Nights? The same could be said for other game genres as well. Are developers scared of trying something new? If they do try something new, are they afraid people won't like it/try it?

There are definitely rich, untapped worlds to explore. I would *LOVE* to have a Jade Empire meets Morrowind or an Egyptian RPG. We don't know what a Skyrim-like game set in India during the Mughals would be like nor a Witcher-like experience modelled after Mansa Musa's empire. That's really a shame.

Sadly it's becoming fashionable in some quarters to pillory and hound creators who explore other cultures. J.K. Rowling has gotten flak for weaving in a Native American mythos into her worlds. Mobs have hounded Warhorse Studies for depicting of a province within the Holy Roman Empire. Whatever this turn is, it's contemptible and will only retard adoption of non-Tolkein content into games.

I've been waiting for the day that Indian mythology is used for a large scale RPG, although I'm afraid it's a long ways off unfortunately.

J.K. Rowling has gotten flak for weaving in a Native American mythos into her worlds.

As I understand it, that would be because her "weaving" was ill-researched and was believed to perpetuate offensive and inaccurate stereotypes, which is contemptible. A better-researched and more considerate portrayal likely wouldn't have gotten the same kind of flack.

Native American themes, Central American themes, or South American themes.

Certainly. I would love to see more of these kind of RPG genres. I am a bit tired of the Tolkien-esque realms. It's all swords and axes, with dwarves and elves fighter over some treasure chests. The Chinese martial arts fiction hasn't been tapped until recently with Age of Wushu, and this is a genre that has existed for hundreds of years, or thousands. I would love to see more exposure to other folklores.

or an Egyptian RPG

This is my dream. It does not have to be strictly the realistic history or the Egypt kingdom, but the theme itself is exactly what stimulates me so much. The architecture with mirriculous dungeons etc. Ever in my life, if this theme poped up in some game, even decades old games (Chasm The Rift, Fox...) I was so glad.