Global Warming ?

Global warming or not, It''s December 5 in Kansas and the high today was 71 F (for all you non-kansans out there, it''s usually about 15 F with wind & ice).
Screw the ice caps, this rules.

"So crucify the ego, before it''s far too late. To leave behind this place so negative and blind and cynical, and you will come to find that we are all one mind. Capable of all that''s imagined and all conceivable."
- Tool
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yea! i agree! i had moved to kansas from nevada a couple months ago and i have been freezing my ass off here! wooo! go warm weather!

In Sydney at the moment we are experiencing very varied (try saying that fast ) weather. I''ll give you an example.

It''s summer right now, and at the moment it is overcast and raining lightly and is about 20 degrees celsius at most. The day before was similar. The day before that it was scorching hot at about 39 degrees. The day before that was similarly hot yet in the afternoon we had major storms and some of the fastest winds ever recorded.

Still following along?

The week before that was nice tranquil weather around 28 degrees a few small clouds with blue skies. But, the preceeding fortnight before that had freezing conditions.

To sum it up we''ve been experiencing temperature ranges of 18-39 degrees or so. Very freaky.

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"640K ought to be enough for anybody." -Bill Gates 1981

I''ll admit this warm weather is really nice and I will
enjoy it as it lasts.

However, I get a gut feeling that something is amiss and
that we will pay for it in the future. It just doesn''t feel
right.

A few years ago I heard a climatologist remark that it was
possible for global weather conditions to change suddenly
rather than slowly. I can understand this if the Jet Streams
decide to wander off their usual seasonal paths.

dimitri_gamer
I find it very interesting of the weather in Australia has been
varying in temperature to such a degree. Over here we often get
extremes in temperature, but nothing compared to that. And I''m
sure that global warming has just as much effect in the summer
season as in winter.

We can probably expect more chaotic, unpredictable weather in
the future. A longer hurricane season. Polar melting. All that
wonderful stuff. As cold as it gets here in the winter, it gets
very hot in the summer. Personally, I can''t take the heat. In
fact I hate the heat and prefer winter over summer. But I expect
the summers to get hotter, then I''ll have to move up North.
Anything above ( 25 C ) 77 F you can have.

Guy

Not this again.

Well, anyway, its America''s fault for emitting 1/3 of the world''s CO2 and not signing up to Kyoto.

This is the point at which Vetinari comes in and disputes everything I say, beginning a month-long argument with much waving of statistics and "scientific" reports, at the end of which one of us realises that we really don''t care that much after all and gives up.

www.elf-stone.com

Even the most radical global warming nuts don''t believe the...weird weather has much to do with global warming. It''s a fluke.

And Benjamin Bunny, who''s fault is it that only one country ratified the Kyoto Treaty?

Anyway,
-Yes, US produces 25% CO2 of the world''s emissions to produce 40% of the world''s goods. This is environmental friendliness!
-The US is reforesting our country and our forests absorb more CO2 than we produce.
-Competitors to our corporations want the US in Kyoto so our companies prices rise, giving US corporation''s competitors more business.


Mike

quote:

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Well, anyway, its America''s fault for emitting 1/3 of the world''s CO2 and not signing up to Kyoto.

---

I could just as easily say it''s England''s "fault" for being the first country to enter the Industrial Revolution, and therefore start polluting. But that''s an absurd thing to say, is it not?

Besides, have you ever heard how sunspot activity effects temperature on approximately 11 year cycles? Not only that, but the earth goes through NATURAL temperature changes. For example, it''s common knowledge that the world was much warmer on average when the dinosaurs were around. As another example, it was much cooler on average during the ice age. So to jump to the conclusion that pollution is causing our higher-than-normal temperatures is like saying a cow running across a field makes the earth spin.

rm -rf /bin/laden

quote:

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Original post by CmndrM
...a cow running across a field makes the earth spin.

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WOAH! I didnt know that. haha j/k

here in NJ im enjoying the beautiful weather right now, today it was 67 degrees!

if you were to flash back to the blizzard of ''96 here, we''d be in half a foot of snow already, in bitter cold temperatures..every year there is less and less snow..

heres hoping there wont be the entire winter

global warming, i welcome you.

quote:

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Original post by Vetinari

And Benjamin Bunny, who''s fault is it that only one country ratified the Kyoto Treaty?

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And that country signed it because the treaty allowed it to increase it''s emisions..

Seriously, the point of the Kyoto treaty was that _everybody_ reduced emissions. If all the world minus the US reduced emissions, then the US would simply increase it''s CO2 output to respond to the rising needs of the market. US basically killed the treaty. I''m not saying this was wrong tho.

Before complaining about global warming, you need all the facts

What they don''t want you to find out is that, if the temperature of earth does rise, then more water will evaporate, producing more cloud. Clouds are white, and therefore reflect more energy away from earth, cooling it down again. This simple fact is often ignored.

quote:

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Original post by benjamin bunny
Well, anyway, its America''s fault for emitting 1/3 of the world''s CO2 and not signing up to Kyoto.

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Actually, Diodor brings up a good point. It is the world consumer''s fault that the US emits 1/3 of the world''s CO2, American companies are only giving people what they want (cheap goods at the potential expense of the environment). It''s also other country''s government''s faults for putting more restrictions on their companies, so it is more expensive for them to produce (therefore they produce less), while being relatively cheap for the US companies. Or those said government artificially limit production, meaning that saying the US produces 1/4-1/3 of the world''s CO2 is nearly meaningless, because we are only filling a consumer void created by other governments. So basically, it''s everyone''s fault, your fault, my fault, your government''s fault, my government''s fault. And the result is fine by me.

Diodor''s probably right, if we didn''t sign it and everyone else did, the American economy would soar, because we would fill a worldwide void. If we signed it, everyone (especially Americans probably, many Americans think cheap goods is an inaliable right provided in the constitution) would bitch about high prices (especially energy prices) and demand a government ''solution'' (nevermind the fact the government created the problem). Some would probably even blame the rising prices on an energy company conspiracy.

There is still much scientific controversy over
a) The average earth temperature is on the rise (many claim the average temperature is on the fall).
If we have trouble proving that, how can we possibly prove
b) The earth''s temperature is rising because of human activity.

Anyways, a long term solution (if there is a problem) would be much solved by forestation, which will lower amounts of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere . That is much better than lowering emissions which, if the global warming nuts are correct, will only delay the inevitable. Even the most radicals say it will be 50 years before we see an average increase of 2 degrees C. Which would bring us to the average earth temperature of the 14th century (yes, it was ~2 degrees C warmer in 1500, which is evidence that the earth has cyclic temperatures).


Mike

Wow, a political debate.
Didn''t expect that.
But great stuff anyways.

There was also the theory that ( global warming == ice age )

Now that seems very strange indeed that global warming could
cause an ice age. But I do understand the theory in part.

I believe it went like this:

There are ocean currents that take warm water up north
towards the colder waters moderating them. What happens
is that the general temperature of the ocean rises, and
the temperature differential between the ocean current and
the rest of the ocean drops. The current melds into the
rest of the ocean and slows or stops. Without the flow of this warmer water up north, the moderating temperature up north ceases. This in turn creates a cooling effect which triggers
an ice age. Very interesting theory.

Now for our contribution to this equation. I can not say that
we don''t have any contribution to this problem. The emmission
of CO2 got to have some effect. The thing is, how much of an
effect. If the weather on this planet is finely balanced, then
maybe it doesn''t take much to throw that balance off and enter
the natural warming cycles prematurely.

Then we can also deny that we don''t have any effect on the
climatic changes. Then if we are wrong, we can let future
generations worry about that. That''s an easy out. I guess
it depends if you are living for this generation or for the
future generations. I like long term planning myself.

Guy

I think that water vapor is also a green house gas. Having the oceans start to evaporate could start a chain reaction and really nuke us. Anyway, I prefer cold weather. It''s nice outside now. I could go out w/o a coat, but that really sucks, because there should have been snow a month ago, and in summer the heat is unbearable when you have to work in it. I''d rather be too cold than too hot. I really feel for anyone at the equator. And I''m sure it''s not just because I''m Canadian.

It''s called global climate change and it''s not an issue. I remember one year in MN the snow never completely covered the ground. The next year it was snowing until May. It''s a cycle that goes about every two years. The major factors of global climate change are el nino, el nina, and volcanoes. Things we have no control over. CO2 isn''t making a dent in climate because

A) there''s not enough of it
B) C02 is naturally consumed by green plants

It''s the modern "sky is falling" myth. 10 years ago scientists were going on about global cooling. And they were right. It was cooling down back then. Now it''s warming up again. And in another 5-10 years it will start cooling down again by itself.

It''s a natural cycle. But you should still buy energy efficient things because wasting natural resources is a bad thing to do.

Ben

You all have greate theories and opinions. My take on this it the fact I don''t have to shovel anything, scrape ics and snow off off of my car freezing my keister off until I am almost at work(then is when my car heats up). I only care for snow for 3 days. 24,25,26 of december after that I say bring on the 20 c degree weather. or at least the drink beer and BBQ outside type weather.

Cheers

You all have great theories and opinions. My take on this it the fact I don''t have to shovel anything, scrape ics and snow off off of my car freezing my keister off until I am almost at work(then is when my car heats up). I only care for snow for 3 days. 24,25,26 of december after that I say bring on the 20 c degree weather. or at least the drink beer and BBQ outside type weather.

Cheers

quote:

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Original post by sporty
here in NJ im enjoying the beautiful weather right now, today it was 67 degrees!

if you were to flash back to the blizzard of ''96 here, we''d be in half a foot of snow already, in bitter cold temperatures..every year there is less and less snow..

heres hoping there wont be the entire winter

global warming, i welcome you.

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I''m from NJ as well and agree that we seem to have gotten less and less snow since that blizzard really dumped on us. Tho it was pretty cool having that half a foot layer of ice on top of all the snow, you didn''t need sleds to go down hills

I''ve read so many conflicting reports on global warming that I really don''t know what to think. I''ve heard the cloud theory and the ice age deal and the loss of the Antarctic ice shelf... I never thought of the solar flares - it''s true that the sun is at a peak for flare activity, but I thought that only affected electronics and power lines, not global climate.



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Drew Sikora
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If we are going to have any progress in this matter,
we must first admit that there, by off chance, might
be a problem that we are contributing to.

Maybe it's improbable, but something on this scale
is worth looking in to. Why take a chance. Yes, there
has been conflict in scientific data. So we choose the
side which we are more comfortable with.

I think we should look at this on the side of caution.

Guy


Edited by - GuyJohnston on December 6, 2001 1:50:27 PM