Is it better to slowly build community and devlogs, or to release finished game?

Is it better to make devlogs and show what are you adding to game when developing it,

or is it better to develop game quietly and then release it and trailer?

If community building is better, then why all big game companies release finished game first? They only sometimes release trailer before releasing game.

Only indie developers publish devlogs and build community when developing game.

I was also thinking of making "fake devlog" - first making finished game, then releasing devlog every week with big updates and pretend that I am developing the game.

In the old times, game developers didn't even release trailers, but fully finished game plus demo.

If you slowly develop game and release devlogs, it has following effects:

* someone can steal your idea, make a copycat and release it before you because he has bigger team

* someone can steal your assets and put into his game, what are you going to do? Do you have a money to sue them? How will you prove they were your assets?

* you can get feedback about game and improve it, before releasing it

* you can build fans and popularity before release

* if you develop game slowly, people might lose interest and you will not gain anything from the devlogs

* you have to spend time and money to make devlogs and to market them

What is better and why:

* develop game quietly then release the game and trailer, promote the game

* develop game quietly but show few trailers during development (this is what Rockstar North is doing with GTA)

* develop game in open way, have devlogs, regular posts about things added to game, then after few years release game or release in early access

Also is it good to use early access or better to finish game?

gamelordofdeath said:
someone can steal your idea, make a copycat and release it before you because he has bigger team

In most businesses in the world - ideas are plenty, execution is hard. This counts double for game development.

gamelordofdeath said:
someone can steal your assets and put into his game, what are you going to do? Do you have a money to sue them? How will you prove they were your assets?

Pretty much every country in the world (with exception of Democratic People's Republic of Korea, and maybe even that) have concept of intellectual & physical property. When you create assets and you can legally prove you created those and didn't sell/provide them license to use those - you can sue them.

The cost for legal process depends on country where you live. These cost doesn't tend to be as high as people think.

gamelordofdeath said:
Is it better to slowly build community and devlogs, or to release finished game?

gamelordofdeath said:
Also is it good to use early access or better to finish game?

I can't answer those - because those depend on your project, how you want approach marketing, etc. I personally don't promote project that doesn't do its purpose completely (as I don't think it's worth it).

In most businesses in the world - ideas are plenty, execution is hard. This counts double for game development.

Wealthy rich corporation that develops games has big budget, so after they steal my idea, they will be able to execute it better and faster. I will lose.

If I first create game and release it, they will not be able to make a clone in one day.

Pretty much every country in the world (with exception of Democratic People's Republic of Korea, and maybe even that) have concept of intellectual & physical property. When you create assets and you can legally prove you created those and didn't sell/provide them license to use those - you can sue them.

How will I prove I created the assets and idea? What if they will claim that I stole assets from them?

The cost for legal process depends on country where you live. These cost doesn't tend to be as high as people think.

This legal process will cost between 5000 to 15000 dollars. How will I get this money?

And the court might say that they stolen the assets and they have to pay me 1000 dollars.

I can't answer those - because those depend on your project, how you want approach marketing, etc.

I don't know what you want. I want you to tell me.

I personally don't promote project that doesn't do its purpose completely (as I don't think it's worth it).

If you don't use early access you have to develop game for 5 years and you have to have funding for 5 years.

If you use early access you can start selling the game after 2-3 years and this will give you money to continue developing.

gamelordofdeath said:
Wealthy rich corporation that develops games has big budget, so after they steal my idea, they will be able to execute it better and faster. I will lose.

If I first create game and release it, they will not be able to make a clone in one day.

Why would wealthy rich corporation even do that? Take someone's random idea (just idea), and do the whole execution … from game design document, concept art creation, building software necessary for given game, building assets, gameplay, etc. etc.

All this while risking getting sued and whole production stopped? Why even take such risk, when you already pay creative people that can create good ideas?

And even for smaller companies it makes absolutely no sense to just steal idea - and create everything that's needed to starting work on the game (which is often tied to a person who had the idea in the first place).

This concern is wrong - idea stealing like this doesn't happen.

gamelordofdeath said:
How will I prove I created the assets and idea? What if they will claim that I stole assets from them?

All documents you create often have timestamps, for assets you have concept art, file history, etc. If someone just stole the assets without licensing those, they won't have any history nor any concepts, etc. for given files (while you would and you would also have exactly same assets) - such cases aren't that difficult.

Innocent until proven guilty applies - legal process isn't about who can throw more money at court. If they steal assets in the first place and you catch them, they have few options:

1. Attempt to solve this outside of court - often by paying you enough to not charge them
2. Go into court where you have to prove their guilt (which can be straightforward) - which also means quite severe financial repercussions and likely termination of given project
3. Go into court attempting to claim they made the assets (where you can prove they didn't) - which is by far the worst case that can end up in management of the company behind the bars

It's extremely unlikely situation 2. or 3. is going to happen.

And then - from the point of view of other party - why would you even steal assets and risk project (which definitely cost you significant resources) cancelled and wallet emptied because of some assets (which you can license/buy from someone else)?

gamelordofdeath said:
This legal process will cost between 5000 to 15000 dollars. How will I get this money?

I'm not from US, so I can't address your legal fees and costs. The system here is different.

So far the only problems I had in the past was multiple parties illegally using source code for commercial purposes, while they had license for non-commercial ones. C&D letter has solved the issue (the cost in here for that was under $50), with option to buy license at additional cost to cover my expenses.

Starting legal process would be another step for which I was prepared - I had a lawyer (he also wrote & sent that C&D letter for me). Dragging them to court wouldn't cost nearly that much in here (we'd be talking at far less than $1k for first instance) … possible winner has right to ask other party to cover their expenses in full (judge can decide differently here though).

Most of these are not A vs B scenarios. You've created a false choice.

gamelordofdeath said:
Is it better to slowly build community and devlogs, or to release finished game?

You need to BOTH build a community AND release games. Plural games.

The immature model is to make A game, usually then complaining and leaving it when it doesn't work out. The mature model is to release it again and again, improving it each time, and engaging the community with each release and re-release. Releases of expansions are a great way to do it once the core gets good.

gamelordofdeath said:
Is it better to make devlogs and show what are you adding to game when developing it, or is it better to develop game quietly and then release it and trailer?

Another false choice. Many successful projects find ways to do both. Those devblogs aren't meaningless, the good ones are part of a well-reasoned marketing strategy. That is, they are BOTH things, and often more besides. They are a way to build hype, a way to test ideas with fans, a way to explore options, a way to get feedback, in addition to building a community and to work toward a release.

gamelordofdeath said:
Only indie developers publish devlogs and build community when developing game.

Not true at all. Indie developers build their communities differently than major studios, but the major studios absolutely find ways to get the word out, find ways to steadily build hype both through technical channels and through marketing to the masses. Both and more, not an “or”.

gamelordofdeath said:
someone can steal your idea, make a copycat and release it before you because he has bigger team

Welcome to the jungle? Ideas are cheap and plentiful, execution is everything. If they can execute better on the idea and they catapult ahead, that's their rewards to seize. Sometimes many developers all produce amazing games and the entire game community is better as a result. If others out-compete you, that says more about you than about them.

The law protects implementation, not ideas.

Further, very often it isn't the first game exploring an idea that succeeds, or even the second or third. Usually it takes many iterations, often by competing companies escalating against each other, eventually someone finds the magic formula that becomes a breakout success.

For the rest of your items, bullet points rather than quoted blocks for easier

• you can get feedback about game and improve it, before releasing it
• you can build fans and popularity before release
• if you develop game slowly, people might lose interest and you will not gain anything from the devlogs
• you have to spend time and money to make devlogs and to market them

All of these are marketing decisions. You can get feedback through private focus groups, through closed betas, and through a phased release. You can build popularity in many ways, that's part of a marketing plan. Your marketing plan always needs to consider pacing and surrounding events; you want to time them so people can have excitement, and also avoid clashing with other big announcements and obvious trade shows.

• What is better and why:
• develop game quietly then release the game and trailer, promote the game
• develop game quietly but show few trailers during development (this is what Rockstar North is doing with GTA)
• develop game in open way, have devlogs, regular posts about things added to game, then after few years release game or release in early access

All off them are better. They need to be part of a marketing plan. You develop that marketing plan through market research. These are all part of very basic, fundamental business development that are essential for developing a business. If you aren't doing them you're making a game, not developing a business.

• Also is it good to use early access or better to finish game?

Depends on your marketing plan. Pros and cons to both. For small developers usually it is better to have repeated iterative releases.

gamelordofdeath said:
Wealthy rich corporation that develops games has big budget, so after they steal my idea, they will be able to execute it better and faster. I will lose.

This is mostly irrational. Your game won't be that successful. It will take you many iterations to make a game that is that good. If you genuinely do create a genre-breaking or genre-creating product (which is extremely rare) then yes, you'll have competition but it is green field, your growth is limited only by your own creations. It is NOT a zero-sum game where their sales somehow steal yours.

gamelordofdeath said:
How will I prove I created the assets and idea? What if they will claim that I stole assets from them?

What you describe usually isn't a problem, just an imagined fear.

Either way, you absolutely should be talking with a business lawyer to protect your IP rights. That's not an optional thing, but an essential business task.

gamelordofdeath said:
This legal process will cost between 5000 to 15000 dollars. How will I get this money? And the court might say that they stolen the assets and they have to pay me 1000 dollars.

Your numbers there are nonsense.

As for where you get the money, the typical sources are the 3 F's: Friends, Family, and Fools.

This 3-page article was on the site over 20 years ago, but directly applies to your situation. What you describe fits the “amateur” side on all three of pages, not the “professional” side. Some of the words have changed over the decades, the “shareware” model was generally replaced with “freemium”, but the concepts remain solid.

Vilem Otte said:
Why would wealthy rich corporation even do that? Take someone's random idea (just idea), and do the whole execution … from game design document, concept art creation, building software necessary for given game, building assets, gameplay, etc. etc.

Why? To make profits from selling the game. Why invent good ideas when you can steal them from someone?

Vilem Otte said:
All this while risking getting sued and whole production stopped?

I don't have money to use and courts are corrupt, they award win to richest corporation so it's even richer. Capitalism is rigged.

Vilem Otte said:
Why even take such risk, when you already pay creative people that can create good ideas?

Corporate people are soulless and they cannot create good ideas. Corporations make boring soulless movie games. They don't develop new ideas. But they are quick and happy to steal someone else ideas if they are good and working.

Microsoft and Bill Gates stolen DOS and Windows GUI from others. Gates built billions of dollars in wealth from thievery.

Vilem Otte said:
This concern is wrong - idea stealing like this doesn't happen.

It happens every day. Bill Gates stole DOS and Windows from others.

Vilem Otte said:
All documents you create often have timestamps, for assets you have concept art, file history, etc. If someone just stole the assets without licensing those, they won't have any history nor any concepts, etc. for given files (while you would and you would also have exactly same assets) - such cases aren't that difficult.

Computer timestamps can be modified so they are zero evidence. But file history could be a proof.

Vilem Otte said:
Innocent until proven guilty applies - legal process isn't about who can throw more money at court.

It is. Justice system is corrupt and rigged.

Vilem Otte said:
And then - from the point of view of other party - why would you even steal assets and risk project (which definitely cost you significant resources) cancelled and wallet emptied because of some assets (which you can license/buy from someone else)?

Because you can? Because why pay when you can steal for free?

Vilem Otte said:
So far the only problems I had in the past was multiple parties illegally using source code for commercial purposes, while they had license for non-commercial ones. C&D letter has solved the issue (the cost in here for that was under $50), with option to buy license at additional cost to cover my expenses.

So first you said, why would anyone steal my assets or break law if there will be consequences. Then you say that you were a victim of something like this. So you should realize that if it's possible to steal and break law, someone will try it. I don't have much money to sue. I cannot risk that someone will steal my assets and ideas.

Across all four of your discussion threads you're taking a negative, fatalistic, victim view. Everyone is corrupt, no systems can do what you want, there is no hope, it's all rigged against you.

Bast on what you've written I don't think you're currently able to handle entering the business world. It is unlikely to end well.

frob said:
Not true at all. Indie developers build their communities differently than major studios, but the major studios absolutely find ways to get the word out, find ways to steadily build hype both through technical channels and through marketing to the masses. Both and more, not an “or”.

How and what they release? Rockstar Games only releases a few trailers (which don't show gameplay and are crap), then they release the game. That's all they do.

frob said:
Welcome to the jungle? Ideas are cheap and plentiful, execution is everything.

Good ideas are not plentiful. And idea is small, but then there is a design.

frob said:
If they can execute better on the idea and they catapult ahead, that's their rewards to seize.

If I release game trailers and devlogs they will be able to execute and catapult before I will finish game. And I will earn 0 dollars.

If I don't release stuff but develop my game, then I release my game and start earning money. Thieves will have to start from zero when I release finished game, it will take them a year to develop their clone. I will be one year ahead.

frob said:
Further, very often it isn't the first game exploring an idea that succeeds, or even the second or third. Usually it takes many iterations, often by competing companies escalating against each other, eventually someone finds the magic formula that becomes a breakout success.

So this is a proof that capitalism is a scam. And so is intellectual property. It is not worth inventing things. It is best to steal things from others. Like Bill Gates.

Nobody is forcing you to the industry. If you truly believe what you have been writing in this thread and others, I suggest you find other ways to live your life, or get outside help. The fears you list will prevent success in this industry.

Take your suggestion as truth: it is all a scam, you cannot succeed, anything you create will be stolen, the courts will not support your ownership, and failure is inevitable. The only winning move is not to play.

lets learn to swim

• no I could fail and drown
• no we will help you, and it's not that scary
• yes it is ,it's terrifying , and I'm not going to do it
• come on, swimming is cool and the best exercise
• no! there are sharks and poison in the water
• Come on, it's not true, we can figure it out
• no! water is a dangerous conspiracy three way between oxygen and hydrogen.

None of what you said is actually true.

It's a conspiracy theory all of it.

Why work when you can collect free food from the government ?

Why play when it's too hot out side?

Why not eat meat, as meat was animals?

Most of the time people don't steal ideas, most of the time execution's and follow through are what matters.

If you can't prove you created something or came up with a novel idea, than I'd question Your documentation and logic skills and Abilities.

Any creator should be able to walk through and account every step of how they did something.

if your unable to do this, it's on you.

We're not going to sit here and pretend that theft doesn't happen, but letting irrational fears stop you is on you, no one else.

Say you wanted to travel to a place like Chicago or Oakland.

But you hear crime is out of control in those cities, your solution is just not to go? ever! Since your bound to get mugged and the police are corrupt and racist. problem solved?

Your logic is immature and incomplete.

but on to the actual topic?

I'd do dev blogs overtime, building a grass roots community. For many reasons.

I'd explain why but then you'd know my idea and how to recreate it, and you might steel it from me.