Thread Reader

No one reads this or no one is interested?

I do think it would be very useful.

Real programers are not afraid from maths! (I am)
(from an Asfixia Member I think)
JJpRiVaTe (Private Zone)

Sadly, I don''t think anyone reads this forum anymore.

Unless a moderator wants to prove me wrong...

A ''thread reader'' (or, more generalized, ''GDNet Client'') was proposed, IIRC, when they wanted ideas to make money. It wasn''t accepted then because no-one had the time or skills to make a network client.

Superpig
- saving pigs from untimely fates
- sleeps in a ham-mock at www.thebinaryrefinery.cjb.net

quote:

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Original post by superpig
Unless a moderator wants to prove me wrong...

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Several times a day, actually. I usually just wait for members to chime in before replying myself.

quote:

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Original post by superpig
A ''thread reader'' (or, more generalized, ''GDNet Client'') was proposed, IIRC, when they wanted ideas to make money. It wasn''t accepted then because no-one had the time or skills to make a network client.

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It''s not the skills. It''s the time, and the fact that the forums are already a big drain on our resources. The consume a significant portion of our bandwidth and processor time, and generate virtually no revenue to offset that. We keep them because they are useful, and thus help attract visitors, but I think adding a thread reader would introduce additional overhead that just isn''t worth it.

Might not the thread reading client be written so as to minimize bandwidth? Not much need to download a post twice - unless it's been modified. Maybe write the client as an ActiveX plugin or something, reference files from the browser cache or what not, keep the initial download small so that it pays for itself after a time? Just speculating...

[edited by - lessbread on June 5, 2002 11:35:33 AM]

Really I think the processor time and bandwith would be enormous saved.

In a normal case, visitors will use the web interface. The reader would be downloaded and used probably only by habituals. There is no need to use it if you don''t want.

About time and bandwith:

When I look the forums I actually have to view the same page, or information, many many times... plus the bookmarkeds topics that even don''t work as well as I would expect (I''d prefer to be able to know what I''ve already readed). Calculating by low... I think I receive more than 5 times the info I''m really reading. Each time I load a page the ASP is executing, accesing database, etc... Plus too the headers and all the stuff that is moving many times across the net, and the unconfortable way of answering, quoting, etc...

What I propose is that, when entering the forums (this would force the users to enter the website, not just opening the client application), have an option that links a page that serves the new messages since the given date.

This would be like a newsgroups client, but with no ability for some unnecessary things.

I really think that would be a bandwith saving, a high amount of time-process saving and, over all, more comfortable (how do I spell this?).

Note: why do you think the forums are a big drain in your resources? Really, they must be resource-consuming, but actually are almost the only reason why I visit the site.

I am not talking about a complicated reader, I talk about a ''private/thematic community forum reader'' (near BBS style), which could be used on more websites and projects. A system that doesn''t allow users to post with that if they are not some months all would effectively prevent spamming of forums, so the fact that one must enter the website to get the messages anyway. It is not like news.

Sure many people here has the skills to program this and, given the protocol, you can make a contest or get people to do it for free, I think. I would be one, since then I could use it for other things.

What do you think about the idea, anyway?

Real programers are not afraid from maths! (I am)
(from an Asfixia Member I think)
JJpRiVaTe (Private Zone)

I thought that was essentially what we had originally suggested... cutting down on HTML transferred by only sending adverts and thread text, and letting the program do all the rest.

It''d be like taking the current bandwith usage, removing all the CSS, smilies, table code, forms control, and so on. The program would handle it all.

Myopic: I don''t understand why you choose not to respond... it would be really appreciated if you guys could at least acknowledge you''ve read the idea.

Superpig
- saving pigs from untimely fates
- sleeps in a ham-mock at www.thebinaryrefinery.cjb.net

quote:

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Original post by superpig
Myopic: I don''t understand why you choose not to respond... it would be really appreciated if you guys could at least acknowledge you''ve read the idea.

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ummm... he did, /|\ up there, about 6 hours ago.

quote:

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Original post by jjmontes
No one reads this or no one is interested?

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Hee hee, everyone always thinks that I''m pretty sure Dave checks more than me, and while he usually waits on you guys, I usually wait to chime in after he does... unless I know for sure what the answer is of course. Such a lovely system

quote:

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Original post by jjmontes
Note: why do you think the forums are a big drain in your resources? Really, they must be resource-consuming, but actually are almost the only reason why I visit the site.

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Ah now you see, that''s the problem. While we understand that the forums generate the majority of our traffic (and which is why we''re taking such pains to make the next version much better) we don''t want everyone to come just to flock on the boards - we have so much other stuff we''re hard at work on here that''s just as helpful. If we focus too much on the boards the danger is there that it starts sucking everyone away from the rest of the site.

quote:

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Original post by superpig
Myopic: I don''t understand why you choose not to respond... it would be really appreciated if you guys could at least acknowledge you''ve read the idea.

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Maybe he was referring to jjmontes post after the Rhino''s?

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Drew Sikora
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Blade Edge Software
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I think that this:

quote:

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Original post by superpig
Myopic: I don''t understand why you choose not to respond... it would be really appreciated if you guys could at least acknowledge you''ve read the idea.

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refers to this

quote:

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Original post by Myopic Rhino
Several times a day, actually. I usually just wait for members to chime in before replying myself.

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But I could be wrong. If I am, ignore the rest of my post.

I was actually kind of surprised to see you say that this forum isn''t read. Why would we have a suggestions forum, but not read it? I would think that people would assume that posts made here get read by at least Kevin, Drew, and myself (we all check it regularly, and I know Mike does too).

There are many reasons I don''t respond to every single thread:

• I''m busy. In which case I usually just file the idea away for future reference.
  
• I want to wait and see if other people support the idea before chiming in. My posts often have a way of killing a thread.
  
• I think the idea sucks, but I''m not the kind of person that likes to tell people their ideas suck.
  
• I like the idea, but don''t really have time to do anything about it (this one really kind of falls into that).
  
• I''m completely neutral, and don''t have anything to say.
  

I suppose I could always just post something like "I''ve read your suggestion. Thanks." But I think that anyone who hasn''t read this particular post would then follow up with "So what did you think of it?" Then they''d wonder why I don''t reply.

Simply put, rest assured that if you post something here, the staff reads it, even if we don''t reply. We''re always open to community suggestions, but aren''t always able to do something about them. However, we *always* take them into consideration whenever we decide to add/change something.

Have no fear, the staff does read your messages. I don''t think there is enough benefit to a thread reader for the site given the time and energy that would be consumed to develop it. Site enhancements are a better use of time.

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Michael Tanczos

I shall rest assured and enlightened. I guess it was pretty stupid to think you guys wouldn''t be checking this forum.

Back on-topic: Here''s an idea.

Chrome.

If you can serve the pages up in XML form, that''s a hell of a lot smaller than standard HTML, right? Easier on the bandwidth.

Well, Mozilla has lovely support for XML readers... a ''gamedev'' sidebar for reading the forums would be effective, maybe. You''d probably cut down.. maybe 10% of your current bandwith? (subtract all NS/MZ users current bandwidth, add XML bandwidth) Sure, the ads wouldn''t come through properly, but if you limit it a little - say, it can''t display pictures - they it stays tiny, and your bandwidth usage from it stays small.

Of course, this assumes that there''s a bunch of people around who feel like writing a new Chrome app...

Superpig
- saving pigs from untimely fates
- sleeps in a ham-mock at www.thebinaryrefinery.cjb.net

Well, just to let you know: I''m now playing with Chrome and XUL, with a vague view of creating some kind of forum viewing tool. It probably won''t come to anything, but Mozilla is a platform worth learning in any case...

I''ll keep people posted, by email if they''d prefer.

Superpig
- saving pigs from untimely fates
- sleeps in a ham-mock at www.thebinaryrefinery.cjb.net

The chrome stuff is working fine already (XUL is so easy!), and I''ve hit a problem involving my test web server, so I need to stop and replace my copy of PWS with Apache.

Here''s what I''ve got so far:

The interface, when logging in, requests a host name, username, and password (hostname and username are stored and put in for you each time). The hostname points to a folder which contains the files the client requires - "bz_ref.rdf" which describes the names of the other files, and then one file for forum info, one for retrieving a thread, and so on.

Once logged in, (and yes, this means you need to be a registered user to use the client), you''re given a list of the forums, along with whether or not new posts have been made. You can select a forum from the list, and hit ''go'' at the bottom. This takes you to the thread browse screen.

The thread browser gives you thread title, starter, posts, etc, and if there are new posts. You select a thread and press view, which opens a new dialog with the thread in. You can then scroll through, hit reply/quote as you wish, make new posts, and so on. You can have multiple threads open at once.

The package will be designed to auto-update - it keeps various things (e.g. smilies) offline, along with when you last updated. When logging in, it retrieves the dates of the current smiley list, compares it, and if it''s new, downloads the appropriate smilies. I figure that moving smilies offline will help bandwidth quite a bit...

Because GDNet''s forums are in-house (IIRC), someone''s going to need to write the files that interface with the forum database. I''ll provide an SDK, when it gets to that stage - I''m testing everything using //localhost/ at the moment. It''s going to need data in XML/RDF format - I expect the server can handle this, as it''s through a standard http:// connection, it just needs to have the mime time set correctly (text/xml or text/rdf, IIRC).

I don''t know how the forums can tell if there''s new posts. If someone could enlighten me, I''d appreciate it - otherwise, I''ll have to leave it to the server-side files to work out.

The project is open-source by nature - anyone who downloads it can view the code it uses - but it''s not online yet. If there''s enough interest, I''ll put it online somewhere; otherwise, it''ll stay offline until it''s done (I''ve never used CVS, I don''t know how it works).

BTW, I''d recommend that people look into chrome/XUL. It''s a really nice platform, and it''s already being implemented on handhelds, and so on. Being able to check the forums from a palmtop would be cool.

Superpig
- saving pigs from untimely fates
- sleeps in a ham-mock at www.thebinaryrefinery.cjb.net

Yay I now have Apache2, PHP4, and MySQL Max all running on one machine...

...and, it''s working. I''ve got as far as reading in the list of forums (from a remote database) and reading in the list of threads in that forum (again from a remote database), and displaying both successfully.

I think I''ve got a fairly concrete method for building the rest (I never realised that ECMAScript (java-script) supported classes...), so there should - hopefully - be something usable online in maybe a week. I''ve got a site I can fieldtest with.

Does anyone know how passwords are transmitted to the server for validation? I''m just wondering if I need to encrypt the password before I send it, or anything...

Superpig
- saving pigs from untimely fates
- sleeps in a ham-mock at www.thebinaryrefinery.cjb.net