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You're gonna need a bigger FAQ

Started by Qw3r7yU10p! Feb 4, 2004 at 9:02 AM 26 replies 3.8k views

Original Post

Feb 4, 2004 at 9:02 AM

Would it be possible to develop a good FAQ? Questions that come up a lot: Template errors: undefined externals, (not wanting to put their code all in header file, cos someone might steal it etc). Pointers to class members (difficult syntax but doesn't need re-explaining when you've got function-pointer.org) struct versus class (confusion coming from C) Is STL slow? (driven by lack of understanding of templates or timing of debug builds) STL is rubbish (I know it's not a question but it's the kind of nonsense that gets posted and leads into pages and pages more) Not making data private (usually driven by sloth and a desire not to type too much) x++ or ++x (post is inefficient isn't it, but not with builtin types, unless that's the behaviour you want, right?) All of these questions are well answered elsewhere on the web and there are pretty much standard responses that can be given such as links to the C++ FAQ Lite or sgi.com/tech/stl or the many articles on gotw.ca, or cuj.com, the boost libraries, etc. Even a RTFM link would be useful. I know having active discussion on the forums is important to the statistics of the site and for advertisers etc. But there is an issue of whether the site is really helping people learn about where to find information. If the faq was really good, maybe people would start linking to it and it would increase traffic. As it stands the value of this forum to people coming with new questions is if there are people around who are able and willing to answer. If the main questions that people are asking are the same old same old then people won't stick around just to keep repeating the same old same old answers. Hopefully we're progressing in our knowledge. A FAQ would be a good record of where we've all been. Then the main topics of discussion would be interesting, expanding our knowledge and stimulating. That would be good for the site. The most important thing really is for people to be given good answers and a FAQ could encourage that. [edited by - petewood on February 4, 2004 10:12:10 AM]

Woodsman

Feb 4, 2004 at 9:51 AM

Who''s going to read it

Qw3r7yU10p!

Feb 4, 2004 at 10:06 AM

quote:
Original post by Woodsman
Who''s going to read it ?

If you could bookmark individual questions you could just have a standard response eg:

When should I make my destructors virtual?

try looking in the faq

(c:

Once people got used to using it they''d refer to it a lot. It would just have to gather momentum. ''Just'' being the essential part of that sentence.

Oluseyi

Feb 4, 2004 at 10:57 AM

Did you know that GameDev has an [FAQ] tag? Type it an it expands into: Forum FAQ

(Click Edit on my post to see what I mean. Of course, you can''t actually edit my post...)

antareus

Feb 4, 2004 at 12:14 PM

Neat tag there.

Actually I think programmers should strive to become as close to self-sufficient as possible on a lot of these matters. Too often the response around here is, "search Google" or "look in MSDN." They get their question answered, but don't learn to look for things themselves. Also I think some people forget that their IDEs allow them to "go to definition," e.g. if you want to know how MFC does something the fastest way is probably to look up the class in MSDN, look up the name of the method, and then "go to definition," until you hit the actual code that does it.

IMO, worse are the recurring monthly arguments over:
* C++ vs. C#
* naming conventions
* STL/Boost/etc "sucks"
* singletons are great/are horrible

Not to mention the weekly "I want my program to be the very fastest and I've never heard of a profiler before. So, I'm trying to decide whether to use i++ or ++i"-type threads.

Whenever SabreMan had a thread I was sure to check it out, because it isn't really a "how do I initialize OpenGL," but closer to what a discussion board should be in my mind.

That, and the mods must be willing to move threads from General to Beginner's. There is no reason to have a question like "how do I make a header file," in a General Programming forum when the Beginner's Forum exists for questions such as those. In addition, those recurring arguments should be locked with a link to an older thread or (better yet) the FAQ link. Although locking is harsh, it does force people to actually research a little before getting on and asking the same question again and again.

I'll be blunt and say what petewood is merely alluding to: General Programming is being watered down by repeated, newbie questions. Thankfully people like Mayrel seem to post interesting things from time to time (still have to get around to that GC in C++ thread). I'm not trying to be elitist, but thats how I see it.

[edited by - antareus on February 4, 2004 1:31:28 PM]

VenDrake

Feb 4, 2004 at 1:00 PM

First: Applause to antareus and Oluseyi. Good stuff there.

[My two cents]

Second: RE:Who''s going to write it?
It''s already written. It just needs to be compiled. Every question mentioned so far could be answered with links to existing sites, articles, and/or past posts. Also, it can also grow over time. It doesn''t have to be completed on day one.

Third: Building on antareus''s post - there should be a "Learn how to learn" section. This section would tell people how to navigate their IDE, use their help/MSDN, and how to search other existing resources.

Last: Is it possible to restrict posting in a particular thread to moderators only? If so, a sticky post in the beginner forum would make a quick, strait-forward FAQ.

[/My two cents]

-------------
VenDrake

To understand recursion, you must first understand recursion.

Oluseyi

Feb 4, 2004 at 1:08 PM

I''ll point the other moderators to this. Some very good suggestions here.

antareus

Feb 4, 2004 at 2:05 PM

Yes, I like the "Learn how to" part, it should at least have sections on how to track memory leaks in MSVC (mentioning the built-in CRT functions as well as Fluid Studios memory manager) and how to use the debugger. I know of many people that don''t even touch the debugger. It is one of the MAJOR advantages of MSVC and it just plain rocks.

Woodsman

Feb 4, 2004 at 3:53 PM

I think that these are good ideas but maybe there should be a screen that shows up first when you're starting a thread and your post count is under 20 or so that explains this. I think just replying to someone new is a good idea but it doesnt really solve the problem. If you have a forced message for the first few threads made by someone in the programming forums perhaps that would curb the problem more properly? I'm very interested in this endeavor.

Oh, shouldn't this be in the GDNet Suggestions, Comments and Ideas forums?

[edited by - woodsman on February 4, 2004 4:58:22 PM]

Extrarius

Feb 4, 2004 at 5:04 PM

It would be interesting if there was an ''FAQ Forum'' in the new forums. It would need to have a ''high'' minimum threshold so that people with a high score can post questions and answers for others to link to. The forum FAQ links could be redirected to a specific thread (one per forum, sticky), and there could also be free-floating threads for people to post FAQ-type items not relating to a specific forum (or not relating to only a single forum, etc)

Drath

Feb 4, 2004 at 5:13 PM

That would be nice. One thread that all the C++/C# arguments can be dumped into as well all the other recurring threads.

Greatwolf

Feb 4, 2004 at 5:23 PM

quote:
Original post by Extrarius
It would need to have a ''high'' minimum threshold so that people with a high score can post questions and answers for others to link to.

What is this ''high score'' that you speak of? It sounds like an interesting idea but afaik the forum doesn''t support such poster rankings.

That reminds me, wasn''t the gamedev forum suppose to have a new forum installed? Whatever happened to that?

And I also think this would fit better under the site suggestions & comments

--{You fight like a dairy farmer!}

Cedric

Feb 4, 2004 at 6:08 PM

I agree with antareus. I''m less and less inclined to open up threads here because even if I feel like answering a trivial question, it''s time-consuming to find a thread that isn''t answered. So much wasted time.

I think that we should all make an effort to point posters in the right direction. For an example of what I mean, look at how homework questions are treated in the maths forum. The FAQ explicitly says that giving out answers straightaway is futile, and actually damaging to the poster''s learning experience. The moderator and some posters may even make negative remarks to someone who gives the answer to a homework question.

We should do the same here. If someone asks a question which is already answered by Google, we should answer STFW (politely, but still STFW).

The same goes for questions which simple debugging may answer.

Cédric

maxd gaming

Feb 4, 2004 at 8:33 PM

Test: Forum FAQ

(editing on your post just showed the link)

It''s Maxd Gaming, put in an underscore and I will beat you with a rubber ducky!
{ My Site! - Banner } { My Site! - One time popup }{ My .Net Information }{ A upcoming space RTS codenamed Gruntacktica

. }{ . }

Not following the new trend:
Looky here mommy! No cow pic!

Phoe''s Forums

Qw3r7yU10p!

Feb 6, 2004 at 2:59 AM

I know it''s been suggested before but what about a FAQ Wiki where answers can be refined, rather than muddied. Occassionally there is a thread that starts with a question and three or four people answer with answers that come at the problem from different directions, the original poster comes back and says ''great, that''s all really helpful'' and it stops there. But most of the time posts get more and more full of junk and arguements. It generally moves toward kipple.

Threads are fine for discussion and social interaction but as a searchable record there is too much dross. In the middle of some big 7 page argument about c# vs java there will be some really incisive points. However there will, inevitably be a load of mud slinging, misinformation, FUD and opinion. To be able to extract the insight, when it is noticed, into an editable page (eg wiki), that can be refactored and refined, would be a great asset.

I love this site by the way.

Oluseyi

Feb 6, 2004 at 3:17 AM

We''re debating it (somewhat virulently, I might add) on the private moderators'' list. I had suggested a GDNet Wiki a while back, and Kylotan renewed that suggestion in response to this thread. We''re now debating the specifics (what format? IP issues? technology? who can edit/change/contribute?) and hopefully will make a decision soon.

I suggested dovetailing with Wikipedia. Reaction has been mixed.

Jingo

Feb 6, 2004 at 3:42 AM

I would like to see an FAQ more geared towards gamdev topics, rather than any language specific topics. There are already many excellent C++ FAQs on the web, do we really need another one?

Topics such as:
Collision Detection
Ray Tracing
Spatial Partitioning
Terrain Management
Particle Systems
Physics
Maths
Lighting - Shading

They wouldn’t have to be article length, maybe just a brief description of the techniques that can be used, and links to more advanced information.

Fruny

Feb 6, 2004 at 4:00 AM

I would like to see an FAQ more geared towards gamdev topics, rather than any language specific topics. There are already many excellent C++ FAQs on the web, do we really need another one?

How about a correct one ?

[edited by - Fruny on February 6, 2004 5:00:43 AM]

Jingo

Feb 6, 2004 at 4:24 AM

quote:
Original post by Fruny
I would like to see an FAQ more geared towards gamdev topics, rather than any language specific topics. There are already many excellent C++ FAQs on the web, do we really need another one?

How about a correct one ?

[edited by - Fruny on February 6, 2004 5:00:43 AM]

A correct one? How do you mean?

Any FAQ is going to have SOME errors, even the C++ standard has errors.

There are a lot of non-standard guides on the web, there are also some good ones. C++ faq Lite to name but one.

Qw3r7yU10p!

Feb 6, 2004 at 4:39 AM

quote:
Original post by Oluseyi
We're debating it (somewhat virulently, I might add)

I didn't mean to cause upset. It would be best to discuss this in fair terms. Maybe it would be good to put on all SixThinkingHats.

[edited by - petewood on February 6, 2004 12:22:45 PM]

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