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Yet Another Lisp Thread

Started by tr0n May 4, 2003 at 7:50 AM 27 replies 1.3k views

Original Post

May 4, 2003 at 7:50 AM

I started learning Lisp the other day, and just feel I have to say: What a beautiful language. Thank you. [edit: the italics were a bit much, yes?] [edited by - tr0n on May 4, 2003 1:00:59 PM]

kordova

May 4, 2003 at 9:37 AM

You bastard.

tr0n

May 4, 2003 at 10:20 AM

No, I''m serious. It does look very nice indeed.

Sorry if it didn''t come across that way...

evil sausage

May 4, 2003 at 10:25 AM

ares32585

May 4, 2003 at 10:38 AM

Alright! My prediction is that this turns into another language comparison thread where most of the participants don''t really have experience with the languages which they are going to compare.

Who wants to take bets?

micepick

May 4, 2003 at 10:43 AM

I''ll take that bet, just to be disagreeable. Actually, I don''t think there''s much left to say on that topic anyway.

Samith

May 4, 2003 at 10:47 AM

C++ owns LISP. It is way faster.

micepick

May 4, 2003 at 10:48 AM

Damn you! Must you spite me?

ares32585

May 4, 2003 at 10:51 AM

Well, the problem is that it seems that outcome will be unavoidable. Just consider what would happen when the following groups all enter the same thread:

1) Those who actually know what they're talking about and have used multiple lanugages besides Lisp extensively, and consider Lisp to be superior amongst those languages.

2) Those who actually know what they're talking about and have used multiple lanugages besides Lisp extensively, and consider another language besides Lisp to be superior.

3) Those who use Lisp and consider it "king," but have never used other languagues extensively enough to be able to make real language comparisons. They, however, will defend Lisp to the death and consider other languages, especially C++, to be horrible abominations, even though it seems they have never coded more than five lines in any other language.

4) Those who use C/C++/Java and consider it "king," but have never used Lisp (or other languages) extensively enough to be able to make real language comparisons. This group, too, will defend C/C++/Java to the death, even though it seems they have never coded more than five lines in any other language.

As soon as one person of either groups 3 or 4 enters this thread, it will be too late. Groups 1 and 2 can no longer have meaningful discussions because any suggestion that Lisp or C/C++/Java is better than the other will instantly bring vitriolic rhetoric from both groups 3 and 4.

[edited by - ares32585 on May 4, 2003 12:03:10 PM]

bishop_pass

May 4, 2003 at 10:54 AM

And who would be in each group? If you''ve noted the different groups, you might as well enumerate who''s in each.

micepick

May 4, 2003 at 10:55 AM

You seem to be taking this thread a lot more seriously than you should be. Since I''m pretty sure that Samith isn''t a moron, he was probably kidding. I was kidding, too.

micepick

May 4, 2003 at 10:58 AM

You forgot several groups. For example, I am a member of the "those who have used Lisp for a short time, like it, but are not willing to defend it to the death" group.

[edited by - micepick on May 4, 2003 11:59:34 AM]

tr0n

May 4, 2003 at 10:58 AM

Ah, I thought bishop_pass would chip in pretty soon...

Until now, I mainly used C++, but Lisp does look nice so far...

Samith

May 4, 2003 at 11:01 AM

Yeah, I was kidding.

Anyway, I have decided to learn lisp because it seems to be all the rage lately and I''ve only been using C++ (it''s the only language I know, I don''t even know BASIC) and I too have found that lisp is a pretty cool language.

ares32585

May 4, 2003 at 11:29 AM

In the interest of re-railing a thread that I seem to have de-railed: bishop_pass, do you have any particularly interesting examples of AI behavior using Lisp that you can share?

sSimontis

May 4, 2003 at 11:35 AM

  
if (lisp=cool)
{
endworld();
}
if (python=cool)
{
liveisbetter();
}

This is purple.
This is green.
This is black.

micepick

May 4, 2003 at 11:36 AM

That would be a lot more witty if that was even correct C.

Pouya

May 4, 2003 at 11:42 AM

quote:
Original post by micepick
That would be a lot more witty if that was even correct C.

Not to mention the correct English as well.

Download my new game: notavirus.jpg.exe Thanks ^___^!

bishop_pass

May 4, 2003 at 11:55 AM

quote:
Original post by ares32585
In the interest of re-railing a thread that I seem to have de-railed: bishop_pass, do you have any particularly interesting examples of AI behavior using Lisp that you can share?

If you mean AI programs that have been developed over the years, by far the most interesting have been developed in Lisp. My sig has some. SHRDLU, SAM, PAM, POLITICS, MARGIE, CD, SWALE, Shakey the robot, AARON, CYC, EURISKO, AM, DENDRAL, MYCIN...

[edited by - bishop_pass on May 4, 2003 12:57:00 PM]

bishop_pass

May 4, 2003 at 12:26 PM

SAM was developed by Roger Schank and his team. SAM preceded PAM, POLITICS and SWALE, and incorporated MARGIE and CD. So PAM, POLITICS and SWALE had the abilities of SAM plus more abilities.

SAM would be given a story to process in English format. SAM would read the story, and then enter a natural language dialogue with a user.

Here''s one story SAM was given: (Read the story closely, and notice the use of language and what is not said, but must be figured out.)

John went to New York by bus. On the bus he talked to an old lady. When he left the bus, he thanked the driver. He took the subway to Leone''s. On the subway his pocket was picked. He got off the train and entered Leone''s. He had some lasagne. When the check came, he discovered that he couldn''t pay. The management told him he would have to wash dishes. When he left, he caught a bus to New Haven.

SAM then answered questions of the user in English:

Q: Why did John go to new York?
A: Because John wanted to go to Leone''s.

Q: How did John go to Leone''s?
A: John took a bus to New York and then he took the subway to Leone''s.

Q: Did anything unusual happen on the bus?
A: I don''t remember anything.

Q: Did anything unusual happen on the subway?
A: A thief picked John''s pocket.

Q: What did John order?
A: John ordered lasagne.

Q: Did anything unusual happen at the restaurant?
A: John discovered that he couldn''t pay the check and so he had to wash dishes.

Q: Why couldn''t John pay the check?
A: Because John did not have any money.

Q: Why didn''t John have any money?
A: Because a thief picked John''s pocket.

Q: How did John get back to New Haven?
A: John went from Leone''s by subway and then he went to New Haven by bus.

Q: How was John able to take the bus to New Haven?
A: Probably John had a ticket.

_______________________________

"To understand the horse you''ll find that you''re going to be working on yourself. The horse will give you the answers and he will question you to see if you are sure or not."
- Ray Hunt, in Think Harmony With Horses

ALU - SHRDLU - WORDNET - CYC - SWALE - AM - CD - J.M. - K.S. | CAA - BCHA - AQHA - APHA - R.H. - T.D. | 395 - SPS - GORDIE - SCMA - R.M. - G.R. - V.C. - C.F.

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