Skip to main content
GameDev.net gamedev.net
🔒 Locked

Is 0^0 defined or not?

Started by Boops Jan 1, 2004 at 5:03 PM 29 replies 9k views
Original Post
Boops
Boops
My HP48GX calculator sais it's 1 Maple sais it's 1. But at school I learned it's undefined, and so sais my TI40x calculator. However, since Maple is made by mathematicians (I hope so ), who like defenitions and should shudder to program something that's mathematically incorrect, why did they say 0^0 = 1? Trying some things myself, I found that lim_x-->0 x^x = 1, as well as lim_x-->0 -x^-x lim_x-->0 -x^x lim_x-->0 x^-x lim_x-->0 x^0 But the only limitthat becomes 0 instead of 1 is: lim_x-->0 0^x So is that the only one limit that sais the opposite of all the other ones, and is that why they say it's undefined, but because all others say it's 1, they defined it as 1 in Maple? Anyway, personally I'd like if 0^0 was 1, it would make life so much easier EDIT: Hmm I just found this: http://home.att.net/~numericana/answer/algebra.htm, look at the second topic, some guy there is claiming that 0^0=1. Is he right, or is he going to be flamed by any mathematician that sees him? [edited by - Boops on January 1, 2004 6:13:26 PM]
superpig
superpig
x^a / x^b = x^(a-b)
0^n / 0^n = 0^(n-n) = 0^0
0^n = 0
.: 0^0 = 0/0 = undefined.

HOWEVER

a / a = 1
let a = 0^n
.: 0^0 = 0^n/0^n = a/a = 1.

I dunno, I suspect that the programs in question might be being lazy... checking for ^0 first and automatically returning 1, without checking the 0 that you''re raising.

Richard "Superpig" Fine
- saving pigs from untimely fates, and when he''s not doing that, runs The Binary Refinery.
Enginuity1 | Enginuity2 | Enginuity3 | Enginuity4 | Enginuity5
ry. .ibu cy. .y''ybu. .abu ry. dy. "sy. .ubu py. .ebu ry. py. .ibu gy." fy. .ibu ny. .ebu
"Don''t document your code; code your documentation." -me
"I''m not a complete idiot; parts of me are missing." -}}i{{
Richard "Superpig" Fine - saving pigs from untimely fates - Microsoft DirectX MVP 2006/2007/2008/2009
"Shaders are not meant to do everything. Of course you can try to use it for everything, but it's like playing football using cabbage." - MickeyMouse
bigbadboo
bigbadboo
but it doesnt make sense in practice

0 pies raised 0 times = 1 pie?

[edited by - bigbadboo on January 1, 2004 7:02:20 PM]
--------------------------A good discussion is like a miniskirt; Short enough to pertain interest and long enough to cover the subject..
civguy
civguy
0^0 can be defined to be 1. It doesn't violate any other rules or lead to contradiction, so it's a definition such as the axiom a+(b+c) = (a+b)+c. It could've been defined to be 0, or even 42. But 0^0=1 is actually a pretty useful definition that takes some special cases away from certain formulas (e.g. Taylor series). On the other hand, there are some formulas where e.g. 0^0=0 would've been a better definition and such definition would've removed those special cases, but those formulas are in the minority.

[edited by - civguy on January 1, 2004 7:24:53 PM]
Boops
Boops
Thanks for the replies

superpig: your 0^0 = 0/0 proof convinced me that it''s indeed undifined

nice explanation civguy.
Cedric
Cedric
quote:
Original post by Boops
So is that the only one limit that sais the opposite of all the other ones, and is that why they say it''s undefined, but because all others say it''s 1, they defined it as 1 in Maple?
Strictly speaking, and AFAIK, it''s undefined.

Another related example is sin(x)/x. It''s undefined at x=0. But since this function is used so often, and its limit is 1, mathematicians have called it sinc(x), which is sin(x)/x if x!=0 and 1 if x = 0.

tHiSiSbOb
tHiSiSbOb
quote:
Original post by Cedric
quote:
Original post by Boops
So is that the only one limit that sais the opposite of all the other ones, and is that why they say it''s undefined, but because all others say it''s 1, they defined it as 1 in Maple?
Strictly speaking, and AFAIK, it''s undefined.

Another related example is sin(x)/x. It''s undefined at x=0. But since this function is used so often, and its limit is 1, mathematicians have called it sinc(x), which is sin(x)/x if x!=0 and 1 if x = 0.



I may be incorrect, but I remember my dad (Ph.D. in Mathematics) telling me that it is 1.
----------------------------------------------------"Plant a tree. Remove a Bush" -A bumper sticker I saw.
DerekSaw
DerekSaw
quote:
telling me that it is 1.

... if x->0


[edited by - DerekSaw on January 1, 2004 8:37:18 PM]
"after many years of singularity, i'm still searching n the event horizon" o
light-nexus
light-nexus
I believe that it is one of the "indeterminate forms." It isn''t one...
[quote]The first step in overcoming your limitations is admitting that you have them.[/quote]
Xiachunyi
Xiachunyi
I believe, IMHO, the "anything" to the zero power is 1 means that the "anything" is any positive number larger than 0. 0^0 itself is just 0 since you are manipulating zero in the first place in multiplitive cases.

That is just comming from someone in Pre-Cal.

Edit:

#include <iostream>
#include <stdlib.h>

int main()
{
float answer=0^0;
std::cout << "0^0="<< answer << std::endl;
system("PAUSE");
return 0;
}


Edit, correct way (time corrodes my memory):

#include <iostream>
#include <stdlib.h>
#include <math.h>

int main()
{
//Thank you furby100
std::cout << "0^0:" << pow(0,0) << std::endl;
system("PAUSE");
return 0;
}

[edited by - Xiachunyi on January 1, 2004 11:05:15 PM]

[edited by - Xiachunyi on January 2, 2004 4:30:50 PM]
Platinum314
Platinum314
The function x^0 is 1 everywhere except where x=0, where it is undefined. Asking what 0^0 doesn''t make much sense, but the limit as x->0 of x^0 is 1. Perhaps Maple used limits for indeterminite forms.
The sentence below is true.The sentence above is false.And by the way, this sentence only exists when you are reading it.
TangentZ
TangentZ
By definition, 0^0 is defined to be "undefined".



Kami no Itte ga ore ni zettai naru!
神はサイコロを振らない!
Doc
Doc
0^0 = 1 is (apparently) just plain useful in more situations than 0^0 = anything else. Strictly speaking it''s undefined, but in most situations it is assumed to be 1. Just leave it at that. Why is this topic so damn popular?


quote:
Original post by bigbadboo
but it doesnt make sense in practice

0 pies raised 0 times = 1 pie?



Don''t start that shit again.

Image loads when I''m online since I''m too lazy to find a permanent host.The following statement is true. The previous statement is false.
Shameless promotion:
FreePop: The GPL Populous II clone.

Xiachunyi
Xiachunyi
Sometimes in the Blizzard forums over at "www.battle.net" they start .99~ == 1 threads. I guess every forum must have some disagreement.

Hmmm, maybe "OMG!!!111.99~.99~"?
Russell
Russell
Usually, it is 1, according to this, but sometimes it can be 0. So either can be correct in certain circumstances.
Beer Hunter
Beer Hunter
quote:
Original post by Xiachunyi
Edit:

#include <iostream>
#include <stdlib.h>

int main()
{
float answer=0^0;
std::cout << "0^0="<< answer << std::endl;
system("PAUSE");
return 0;
}

(uncontrollable laughter)
Extrarius
Extrarius
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/ExponentLaws.html
quote:
Special cases include
(8) x1 = x
and
(9) x0 = 1
for x != 0 . The definition 00 = 1 is sometimes used to simplify formulas, but it should be kept in mind that this equality is a definition and not a fundamental mathematical truth (Knuth 1992; Knuth 1997, p. 56).


[edited by - extrarius on January 2, 2004 2:07:01 AM]
"Walk not the trodden path, for it has borne it's burden." -John, Flying Monk

Topic Locked

This topic has been locked by a moderator. New replies are not allowed.

Sign in to reply to this topic.