How far can you copy other games?

When you talk about an idea on such a base level as using items for magic I don''t think you need to worry about people accusing you of stealing everything. The idea has been used before Final Fantasy used it, and it will be used again... games tend to build upon one another, and the important thing is that your game offers a unique experience for the player, regardless of whether or not pieces of it have been done before.

It has to be 30% different (I think) not to infringe copyrights, although I''m not entirely sure.

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Original post by SantaClaws
When you talk about an idea on such a base level as using items for magic I don''t think you need to worry about people accusing you of stealing everything. The idea has been used before Final Fantasy used it, and it will be used again... games tend to build upon one another, and the important thing is that your game offers a unique experience for the player, regardless of whether or not pieces of it have been done before.

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I agree with you there, the meaning of adaption is to take someone Else''s work and alter it slightly into a an adapted piece of work but some how where rpg magic and battle systems are concerned it seems like your cheating by using something like an adaption of meteria.

If you have good lawyers you can copy everything down to the graphics and sound.

On a serious note: The only thing copyright protects is the actual code, graphics, sound and other assets of the game. Ideas, gameplay, rule-sets, etc ARE NOT COPYRIGHTABLE. Names are protected by Trademarks.

Want to make a game where this critter eats dots and is chased by these other critters? Go ahead, but to be safe don''t use a funny yellow thing for the good guy and ghosts for the bad guys. Also, you probably shouldn''t call it Pac-Man. That name''s covered by the trademark.

aldisd has it right, I think.

Fun Fact: I actually saw a direct rip-off of Pac-Man as freeware (It might have been shareware, but I never paid for it) some years ago. Even the maps were identical, but they made it two player and entitled it "BITE MEn". The ghosts were upside down and described as "killer paper bags" and the actual hero characters were given little pointy teeth and named "Bite Man 1" and "Bite Man 2". It was for the Mac, and I haven''t seen it since about 1995, when I deleted all my games to avoid flunking out of school. That and Dubbelmoral, though I doubt I spelled it properly.

Back on topic, don''t sweat spell systems or even more sophisticated elements of gameplay. Unless you start to rip off graphics, code, or actual names and places, you''ll be on the friendly side of the law.

NOTE: I''m not a lawyer, and do not pretend to be. If you get nailed and say, "But Iron Chef Carnage said it was legal!!!" I will crap directly into your hat. Or not. That was a vague threat, not a binding contract. I reserve the right to refrain from crapping in your hat at my discretion.

Iron Chef Carnage > Lol @ last thing. :D

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Original post by aldisd
If you have good lawyers you can copy everything down to the graphics and sound.

On a serious note: The only thing copyright protects is the actual code, graphics, sound and other assets of the game. Ideas, gameplay, rule-sets, etc ARE NOT COPYRIGHTABLE. Names are protected by Trademarks.

Want to make a game where this critter eats dots and is chased by these other critters? Go ahead, but to be safe don't use a funny yellow thing for the good guy and ghosts for the bad guys. Also, you probably shouldn't call it Pac-Man. That name's covered by the trademark.

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right now then, baring in mind my story will not be a single thing like ff7 hear is a list of some of the independent crystals ive got so far.

As I'm using a Crystal system which is built from ff7's meteria system i have to use some of the same types of crystals ff7 used like independent crystals:

how i have it on my note pad doc is: FF7 Name followed by my Adapted name followed by effect.

back stab Back Stab pre-emp physical attack
cover Human Shield protect other characters
long range attack Long Range same attack strength at long range
counter P-Counter counter attacks enemy
enemy lure Lure Orb attracts more enemies
speed plus Speed Orb increases speed
MP plus M-Bank increases max MP
HP plus H-Bank increases max HP
luck plus Luck Orb increases luck
magic plus Magic Orb increases magic
gil plus Gold Orb increases gil at end of battle
pre-emp Alert increases rate of pre-emp attack
exp.plus Exp Orb increases exp.gained at end of battle
enemy away Hide Orb decreases rate of battle
HP<-->MP Switch switches MP with characters HP
mega all Total All "alls"every attack
underwater Air Orb allows breathing underwater

unfortunately i cant do much about the display hear btw.

Anyways these are some of the offes ive got so far built off ff7s system, i am slightly worried that it might seem like i siphoning too much off of ff7 which i don't want to appear like that because i believe it will taint my work.

Btw a lot of the meteria in ff7 which give skills like steal wont be in my crystals, I'm going to find some other way to give the player access to them.

[edited by - Siolis on March 9, 2004 2:49:18 PM]

[edited by - Siolis on March 9, 2004 2:51:40 PM]

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Original post by aldisd
On a serious note: The only thing copyright protects is the actual code, graphics, sound and other assets of the game. Ideas, gameplay, rule-sets, etc ARE NOT COPYRIGHTABLE.

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They''re patentable, though.

<- Cow Soft, free software I''ve made
"Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall." - Grizwald

I'm not entirely sure what your metaphysical system is like, but why not just eliminate any orb effects that might be had just by training? If the orbs are magic, then perhaps they should be used to give people superpowers, instead of just teaching them how to stick a knife between a guy's shoulder blades.

Messing with things like your speed or how much XP you get after a battle or how strongly enemies are attracted to you is right on the money for magical effects. On the other hand, being able to counter-attack seems like something a character would be able to learn without supernatural rocks whispering in his ear.

I think that the best thing to do is to divvy your skills and superpowers up so that you have a group that are granted by crystals and a group that are dependent on character skills. This isn't to say that crystals can't affect the character skills, but maybe you'd be better off with a "backstab orb" that boosts your agility and dexterity for that purpose alone. I remember Fallout had perks like "Smooth Talker" that would raise your intelligence level by 1 point, but only for the purpose of unlocking dialogue options. Other things that used intelligence were unaffected.

The point is that while having a knife with a magic stone set into it might make you a better human shield, it probably shouldn't be a pre-requisite for being able to throw yourself in front of a flaming arrow.

Just a thought.

P.S. - My comments aside, I doubt you're in violation of any laws with that design. Heck, Square stole most of their skill lists and such from D&D, anyway.

[edited by - Iron Chef Carnage on March 9, 2004 3:06:47 PM]

Hmm. Something like this has been bothering me and I figure here is as good ''a place to put it as any.

A friend of mine recentl brought The Languages of Tolkein''s Middle Earth (Ruth S. Noel) to school. I borrowed it and wrote down names and such to base characters off of. The first character I came up with was named Morsereg, which is a combination of the Sindarin words "black" and "blood." Would it be wrong for me to use this character as my own in a game or any other form of media since I used words from a language created by someone else?

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Original post by orionx103
Hmm. Something like this has been bothering me and I figure here is as good 'a place to put it as any.

A friend of mine recentl brought The Languages of Tolkein's Middle Earth (Ruth S. Noel) to school. I borrowed it and wrote down names and such to base characters off of. The first character I came up with was named Morsereg, which is a combination of the Sindarin words "black" and "blood." Would it be wrong for me to use this character as my own in a game or any other form of media since I used words from a language created by someone else?

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No for two reasons, first off all 100% of the 19th century's poets descendent's you could sue off their ass's cus poets of that era adapted words {like you did} from other languages, ever herd of latin btw?

And reason two is that you didn't take a word directly from them, you made a new one entirely, unless you said to mr Tolkien that you did that he wouldn't have a clue where you got it from.

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Original post by Iron Chef Carnage
I'm not entirely sure what your metaphysical system is like, but why not just eliminate any orb effects that might be had just by training? If the orbs are magic, then perhaps they should be used to give people superpowers, instead of just teaching them how to stick a knife between a guy's shoulder blades.

Messing with things like your speed or how much XP you get after a battle or how strongly enemies are attracted to you is right on the money for magical effects. On the other hand, being able to counter-attack seems like something a character would be able to learn without supernatural rocks whispering in his ear.

I think that the best thing to do is to divvy your skills and superpowers up so that you have a group that are granted by crystals and a group that are dependent on character skills. This isn't to say that crystals can't affect the character skills, but maybe you'd be better off with a "backstab orb" that boosts your agility and dexterity for that purpose alone. I remember Fallout had perks like "Smooth Talker" that would raise your intelligence level by 1 point, but only for the purpose of unlocking dialogue options. Other things that used intelligence were unaffected.

The point is that while having a knife with a magic stone set into it might make you a better human shield, it probably shouldn't be a pre-requisite for being able to throw yourself in front of a flaming arrow.

Just a thought.

P.S. - My comments aside, I doubt you're in violation of any laws with that design. Heck, Square stole most of their skill lists and such from D&D, anyway.

[edited by - Iron Chef Carnage on March 9, 2004 3:06:47 PM]

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Aye i came up with this idea about 2 hours ago just i didn't mention it, plus that extract is from an unfinished doc that I'm currently working on.

I was thinking about using a sphere grid type thing for the skills but again I'm worried about rip off but hell if square-enix say shite to me i could just say "be quite cus i got the d+d makers phone numbers" heh heh heh. {btw i really do, they're cool guys. }


[edited by - Siolis on March 9, 2004 4:04:17 PM]

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Original post by Siolis
No for two reasons, first off all 100% of the 19th century's poets descendent's you could sue off their ass's cus poets of that era adapted words {like you did} from other languages, ever herd of latin btw?

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Latin wasn't one man's creation. It was the language of an entire race of people. Sindarin was created by one person: Tolkein. There's a difference.

Edit: Realized I messed up the quote tags.

[edited by - orionx103 on March 9, 2004 5:44:50 PM]

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Original post by orionx103

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Original post by Siolis
No for two reasons, first off all 100% of the 19th century''s poets descendent''s you could sue off their ass''s cus poets of that era adapted words {like you did} from other languages, ever herd of latin btw?

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Latin wasn''t one man''s creation. It was the language of an entire race of people. Sindarin was created by one person: Tolkien. There''s a difference.

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Original post by Siolis And reason two is that you didn''t take a word directly from them, you made a new one entirely, unless you said to mr Tolkien that you did that he wouldn''t have a clue where you got it from.

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Why did you just post this as your basically dismissing what i said to be false which i provided the above second reason in case some did say what you just said. Its fact poets of that era made up words as it pleased them and a lot of words that we used today are adaptations of old words.

Fyi if you wanna go there, latin was a language belonging to a group of people yes, Tolkien made up an entire language, yes, dose it really matter in the described problem that he takes two words that Tolkien may or may not have copy writed {if thats possible} and made a new one out of it that the original language belongs to Tolkien, no it doesn''t.

Try thinking before you hit those little letters on that pad in front of you, it can help you to not look like an idiot.

In the music or movie industry it is entirly legal to create a Spoof or Cover of copyrighted material as long as you don''t use any copyrighted materials in your product.

Why should the programming world be any different?

I would think you should be allowed to use anything in your game (including ideas) with the exception of registered trademarks or copyrighted materials.

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Original post by Siolis
Why did you just post this as your basically dismissing what i said to be false which i provided the above second reason in case some did say what you just said. Its fact poets of that era made up words as it pleased them and a lot of words that we used today are adaptations of old words.

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Fyi if you wanna go there, latin was a language belonging to a group of people yes, Tolkien made up an entire language, yes, dose it really matter in the described problem that he takes two words that Tolkien may or may not have copy writed {if thats possible} and made a new one out of it that the original language belongs to Tolkien, no it doesn''t.

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This is true, but Tolkein''s Sindarin isn''t simply older words from an ancient language. It''s his language, that he created for his own purposes. Why should I or anyone else be allowed to manipulate his language for my or our own purposes?

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Try thinking before you hit those little letters on that pad in front of you, it can help you to not look like an idiot.

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Use commas, use an apostrophe when using the contraction "you''re," use an apostrophe when using the contraction "it''s," capitalize "I" when necessary, capitalize proper nouns (such as "Latin") when necessary, learn basic sentence structure, you should at leave abbreviate "because" in the right way if you''re going to, and, lastly, don''t criticise other people with what you said to me (above) when you can''t type for shit. Try a spell checker.

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Original post by NecroMage
It has to be 30% different (I think) not to infringe copyrights, although I''m not entirely sure.

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Did you see that on or off the internet? If you found it online, can you show me where? I''d take your word for it, but even you aren''t completely sure.

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Original post by orionx103

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Original post by Siolis
Why did you just post this as your basically dismissing what i said to be false which i provided the above second reason in case some did say what you just said. Its fact poets of that era made up words as it pleased them and a lot of words that we used today are adaptations of old words.

...

Fyi if you wanna go there, latin was a language belonging to a group of people yes, Tolkien made up an entire language, yes, dose it really matter in the described problem that he takes two words that Tolkien may or may not have copy writed {if thats possible} and made a new one out of it that the original language belongs to Tolkien, no it doesn't.

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This is true, but Tolkein's Sindarin isn't simply older words from an ancient language. It's his language, that he created for his own purposes. Why should I or anyone else be allowed to manipulate his language for my or our own purposes?

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Try thinking before you hit those little letters on that pad in front of you, it can help you to not look like an idiot.

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Use commas, use an apostrophe when using the contraction "you're," use an apostrophe when using the contraction "it's," capitalize "I" when necessary, capitalize proper nouns (such as "Latin") when necessary, learn basic sentence structure, you should at leave abbreviate "because" in the right way if you're going to, and, lastly, don't criticise other people with what you said to me (above) when you can't type for shit. Try a spell checker.

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Hay i don't claim to be an a student when it comes to english you ass hat but at least i don't make stupid posts which have no point not already covered.

And fyi, when i can be bothered to i can write very well as you will see when ive made my rpg, that is if you have the brains to find the "new game button".

Btw according to THE SPELL CHECKING I HAVE BUILT INTO MY BROWSER you made some spelling errors yourself, i wont point them out though, I'm not that petty. It just gets on my nerves when people post spam in a thread i made.

And as for the start of the post, again your not reading what I'm posting: If someone takes any word that you can write and take another word you can write no matter who owns it in any shape or form and make a new word and give it meaning that no one has made yet into a recognizable word then no one can say "you cant use this word because i own it" even IF that is possible which quick frankly i don't think it is.

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Original post by Enfekted
In the music or movie industry it is entirly legal to create a Spoof or Cover of copyrighted material as long as you don't use any copyrighted materials in your product.

Why should the programming world be any different?

I would think you should be allowed to use anything in your game (including ideas) with the exception of registered trademarks or copyrighted materials.

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I agree, unless its not something like a logo or a direct image from a game then why should one person own it, i mean its not like every game which has ever used a fire spell had to pay royalties on it.


[edited by - Siolis on March 9, 2004 6:16:23 PM]

Just go to copyright.gov and it will tell you you can copy as long as you use your own code you own images and your own sound and your own name and then you can sell it.

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Original post by Siolis
Btw according to THE SPELL CHECKING I HAVE BUILT INTO MY BROWSER you made some spelling errors yourself, i wont point them out though, I''m not that petty. It just gets on my nerves when people post spam in a thread i made.

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1) Please, be petty, I beg of you. I''d like to know what mistakes I made. And, could you notice my mistakes without a spell checker? I could notice yours. And I know what I messed up, also without a spell checker. So please, correct my mistakes.

2) How am I spamming it? Explain that for me.

What the hell? What happened to the 'OT' warnings? I remember back in the day when people warned before they went off on petty "My grammar is better than your grammar, b17ch!!!1112" tangents.

Anyway, in response to the original post:
As others have hinted at, if the creation is uniquely yours and doesn't use any copyrighted material of the original creators (which, in most cases, goes WAYYYY back), you're probably O.K. with the 'Original Idea' thing; however, if you use too much, even if you don't get into legal trouble, it could still seriously affect public response to your game...so I'd say it's pretty much up to you, because it's damned hard to come up with a truly original idea these days. So have fun with it.

To the other little 'argument'...

Scratch that, I'm not going to intervene. Again, have fun with it.

Oh, and...excuse my grammar. I don't have a spellchecker.

EDIT: Removed angry face

"TV IS bad Meatwad...but we f***in need it"

[edited by - Boku San on March 9, 2004 8:04:33 PM]