FPS or RPG?

There are various game which have succesfully merged both genres. The one thing to keep in mind is to pay attention to BOTH aspects of the game.

As for which is more enjoyable, that depends on personality, mood, zodiac sign, and other such factors ;).

If you're making an RPG where you only directly control a single character, FPS style could work very well. The only difference from normal FPSes would be that when you fire a projectile, it should 'guess' which thing you're amiing at (by checking what is near your cursor) and then do the RPG calculations before shooting to see if you hit or miss instead of the typical straight-line hit tests.

...way to think inside the box Extrarius.


Personally, I enjoy FPSes sometimes, but mostly only multiplayer. For single player games I'm more of a strategy/sim or RPG guy - when I'm playing a game I like to know I have more to look forward to than another level full of badder baddies. I don't play many RPGs though, while the stories or themes might be interesting too many of them have uninspiring or downright boring combat engines. Sorry guys I can't stand Final Fantasy or any other jap RPGs with the non-stop random encounters. Nox remains my favorite RPG to date, it's more of an action game disguised as an RPG but combat is real-time, furious, and fun as hell. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against turn-based systems, I loved Fallout, it comes down to how it's implemented and contributes to a fun and challenging game experience. I think Baldur's Gate could have benefitted from a TB battle system instead of its pseudo real-time pause button fest play style, that's another game I was turned off of.

A game that mixed FPS action with the qualities typical of RPGs would be nice. Deus Ex is an oft praised game that I believe merged FPS play with an immersive story, RPG-like stats, and character interactions. I've wanted to play it for some time (*cough* years) but I never got around to it.

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Original post by Ivyn ...way to think inside the box Extrarius.[...]

Really? I've never seen an RPG that operated the way I suggested. If you're saying the whole "don't use player skill for hit determination" is cliche, then perhaps it is but it fits the genre since those that play RPGs are not generally the kind of people that enjoy reflex gaming.

That's true but I'm assuming part of the point of making a game like this would be broadening the appeal of the genre to non-RPG gamers.

The way I see it there's already a lot of skill involved in mastering an FPS. That's not to say that building player stats, or leveling, over time can't be a pivotal part of the game, but I have a problem with a system where a perfectly aimed shot is foiled by the internal game mechanics which are striving to adhere to standard RPG prototypes to the letter.

Instead, maybe it takes a certain skill level or training to be able to use certain weapons and/or there's an accompanying psi/magic system. Come to think of it, I like the way System Shock 2 incorporated this particular feature and it was a little RPG-like.

But I disagree with the notion that it shouldn't be a "reflex game." I'd prefer if the design focused on introducing story, character interaction, etc to the FPS model without bastardizing the gameplay in the process. That way we get the best of both worlds.

Simeple answer: FPS games are probably a lot easier to make than RPGs.

I also like both genres so I wrote my thoughts about it:

You should try to identify the various traits from both genres, and ask yourself "What do I like about RPGs? What do I like about FPS games?"
My case:
FPS:
- linear
- usually not very strong story. (like pr0n)
-/+ only my abilities with the mouse affects the outcome of combat
-/+ usually less than 10 different categories of weapons with 1 weapon in each category
-/+ usually compact levels with lot's of action
+/- no magick
+/- no classes - Warrior only
+/- first person
+/- few friendly npc's
+ easy to aim and shoot
+ enemies go down "realistically"
+ fast paced, no need to stop and search corpses.
* npc's are either friendly, and not possible to hurt, or enemies who'll attack the player on sight.

RPG
+ non-linear
+ story is of the essence (like good movies)
+ many different categories of weapons, and many different weapons in each category
+ my character can become better as I play
+/- usually immense areas with hotspots of action
+/- magick
+/- classes
-/+ usually third person
- ungainly targeting of enemies
- combat usually consists of character hitting a rat or something a lot of times with a very large weapon without doing much damage
* npc's (including enemies) arent always all-friendly, nor always attacking on sight.

As you can see I like the non-linearity, story and character improvements of the RPG. and the "do it yourself" feel of FPS (aim and shoot). I also like my enemies to die when I shoot them in the head, not hitting their head 15 times with an axe before they go down.
I like to find new and better weapons, like "Doomsayer's Sword of Burning Fury +12", as opposed to find a completely different weapon. NOTE - Most FPS games has a strong and organized group of enemies, like an army or. It stands to reason that they're all issued the same kind of weapon. That said, in a FPS/RPG mix some of the soldiers may have tinkered with their weapons or been careless with them and let them decay. Some enterprising soldiers may also have bought different kinds of ammo, or modified it on their own to make it more lethal. Full metal jacket, hunting ammo, Cyanide tipped hollowpoints, multi-purpose, HE, incendiary and depleted uranium sabots are real-life ammo (though not usually for personal weapons [smile])

It's quite possible to combine aspects from both genres. You could recieve XP for each enemy killed and after a while you level up.
You could increase abilities such as strength, stamina and agility, which in turn will affect character speed, health, and endurance.
You could modify skills like "quickdraw", "pistol aim", "pistol speed", "shotgun aim", "shotgun speed", "full auto accuracy", "sniping", "burst accuracy", "grenade accuracy", "grenade timing", "weapon modification", "target stats identification" and others.


Game mechanics:

When the player moves or turn around the targeting circle grows. The bullet will hit somewhere inside this circle, but might not hit dead center. When the player stands still, crouches, or lay prone, the cirlce shrinks. The speed of the shrinking is based on the player's aim-skill for the current weapon. The quality of the weapon may also decide the speed of aiming and minimum circle size. The best weapons in the game might have a circle that's smaller than 0, meaning it'll hit the most optimal point inside this "negative circle". This could be showed on the screen as a circle with a different color that grows as the player aims. It may also be possible to make the gun "bob", as is sometimes done with sniping in FPS games. The amount of bob my be decided by weapon type and a skill or ability. One option is to combine the two, by making a dot move around randomly in the targeting circle, when you shoot the bullet hits where the dot currently is. It's also possible to make the dot only visible when you equip your weapon with a laser sight.

For total realism the bullet's path should not be straight but ballistic and the projectile shouldn't hit the instant the trigger is pulled. Wind would also play a factor. Many of today's FPS games include these facts, and our FPS/RPG mix it could as well. Skills and abilities of the character may help to compensate for these effects, making a "high level" character do some of the work for the player, either by automatically calculating the variables or by showing an accurate projectile path to let the player compensate himself.

I've concentrated on games set in the near past, present or future so far, but many RPGs are set in the medival times. Melee combat could also include elements from both FPS and RPG games. The Elder Scrolls games (Morrowind, Daggerfall etc) and the Gothic games, where the player can do various attacks by using various keystrokes and mouse movements are great examples. The Elder Scrolls games method may be too simple though, and in the Gothic games the character concentrates on one enemy at a time. The ideal way to do it in a RPG/FPS mix is to let the character hit anything that's in his range, and use various manouvres that becomes better as you play (as well as learning new moves). Bows, crossbows and other medival ranged weapons could use the same mechanics as mentioned above. "Severance" or "Blade of Darkness" as it's also called is also a great example. Better really, than Elder Scrolls, and Gothic, but I just remembered the name now [smile].

Most RPGs has magic of one form or another. Be it Magick, The Force, Psionic or Nanobots. It adds another level of complexity and customability, and in a lot of games it's great. In a game set in the present or 20. century it's out though.


Playing field and storyline:

Most FPS has a compact and usually very detailed playing field with a lot of enemies that jumps out from behind every corner. RPGs usually has a much larger and usually not so detailed playing field where the enemies are farther between and sometimes grouped together. The entire complex in Doom3 would only be a single, but large building on Morrowind, leaving 99.9% of the island unoccupied [smile]. The trick is to find a compromise between size and detail.

The mix could have large bases with enemy soldiers and also wildlife and friendly and neutral terretories. The objective of the game could be to do single-person raids on the enemy bases, being ambushed by them and repelling attacks on friendly bases, and finally attacking the enemy stronghold and killing their leader. It's the basic formula, but it works [smile]. The non-linearity would mainly be that the player himself chooses what to attack and when to do it, as opposed to already being the thick of it hand having to fight his way through without the option of retreat and regrouping.


Money:

In practically all RPGs the player is constantly looting the remains of his fallen victimes searching for weapons, armor and valuables, and often finding a sword or gold on rats and other animals. In FPS games on the other hand the player just has to walk across the victim to pick up his weapon or ammo, and not finding anything else. In both genres the player is often walking around with several 100 kilos worth of equipment without slowing down (OK, RPGs are worse in this regard). While it's cool to have a lot of different suits of armor in the backpack it's not very realistic. I'm not decided on what's best of either being able to pick up everything or nothing. Limited space in the backpacks keeps me spending a lot of time trying to decide which of two items might be most valuable and going back to the store to sell the stolen if not graverobbed loot. Depending on the intended pace of the game the player may either be able to pick up things he choose, or just let the character automatically pick up better weapons, ammo and armor, in FPS style. In a futuristic or sword and sorcery game the player could choose to convert items to energy or money. The amound gained should be based on the cost and quality of the item.


Classes:

Most RPGs have a long character generation part where the player rolls or chooses the player's stats and profession. FPS games has usually just one class:

Warrior or soldier (or "scientist" in Half Life [smile]). While choosing an initial class adds replayability, it also forces the player to decide how he wants to play a game based only on his experience with other games, his self-image, or from previous runs of the game. Another option is to let the player slowly develop the character in the direction he sees fit as he plays the game. I am personally more inclined to the second option, but that might be because i'm usually too impatient to start playing and to play the game again using another class as soon as I'm done with it.
With multiple classes the developer also needs to create a lot of different quests, as they'll not always be suited for every class there is.

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Wow.. This became a lot longer than I had planned, and I've spent several hours writing it. Hope you'll find it interesting. A more fleshed out version will go in the articles section of my web-site, as soon as I've completed designing it. I'll be posting a notice in My Announcements when I do :)

EDIT: Hmm.. Seems like some newlines got in ther.. didn't notice it before now.. sorry.

[Edited by - frostburn on December 22, 2004 3:57:05 PM]

Deus Ex is a good example of FPS style combat mechanics in an RPG game. That is how I would do it.

You want to take the best from both genres, not the worst... so I would not try to include RPG style combat in an FPS style game. That would be including the worst of both genres.

The best thing FPS's offer is fast paced skill based combat where the players decide what happens by their own abilities, instead of the computer rolling the dice & spitting out random results. The best things RPG's offer that are usually non-existant in your average FPS are the detailed character developement & immersive storylines. If you put these aspects together in a single game it should be very promising.

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Simeple answer: FPS games are probably a lot easier to make than RPGs

FPS's are ALOT easier that RPGs. On the A6 engine you practicly don't even need to code at all!

RPGs are a different story, I mean they are suposed to be the most difficult of them all(if the game is any good), if you want to make a good RPG your talking three years of development.

So let's do the math...

FPS + RPG, suposing that you have made a game before your talking about three to four years of development.

Just a FPSs, one year.