🔒 Locked

What next?

Started by benryves Aug 8, 2005 at 5:03 AM 31 replies 3.2k views

Original Post

Aug 8, 2005 at 5:03 AM

Background - I've just finished a year at university (Cambridge, Computer science). I didn't want to go to university at all, and of the ones I did apply to I really didn't want to go to Cambridge either. Anyway, I got in and tried to get through it. I ended up having a pretty miserable time and ended up failing all my exams. Whether I wanted to or not, I am not (and cannot) go back next year. So, this year I am working. Currently, I am working for my father to help him and the family out. I do not really enjoy living at home (as you'd probably expect of any 19-year-old) but there is no alternative at the moment (in other words: I have no money). I am pretty stupid - slow, have an awful short-term memory and an almost complete lack of motivation (that part can at least be part-way explained by how cheerless I have been for the last couple of years). Thing is, it looks like I'll need some sort of a degree to get anywhere... so it really is for the sake of getting a degree. There is no subject I feel I could really bear to "study" (bearing in mind that I'm really crap at studying) for 3 or 4 years - I've got no hobbies or interests. I only possess technical skills because I have nothing else to do at home, so tinker. I don't really enjoy programming... So here's the predicament: I get told that I need a degree, but I can't work out what I should do about it. After all, it is purely for the sake of getting one - should I take a course in Media Studies at a low-grade university then? (Though I feel that that is beyond me...) I'm not bad at Electronics (building stuff), but I fear that any course is going to involve Maths (anything beyond addition, subtraction, multiplication and division does my head in), Physics and Chemistry. All of which I really, really suck at. Anyone been in a similar position? Anybody at a university on a course that they love and can see where I'm coming from? Or do I just slog it out without a degree and get "paid peanuts"?

polly

Aug 8, 2005 at 5:09 AM

Ben,

Stupid people do not get into Cambridge. Ever.

You need to examine why you were miserable, or you risk making the same mistake again.

Jon

dave

Aug 8, 2005 at 5:34 AM

Hey man,

You don't necessarily need a degree, it simply depends what you plan to do with your life. It is a good start but you can easily get a stable job in the slightly longer run without one.

You are not stupid, the complete lack of motivation you described happens to us alland will be the reason behind you failing your exams. Now if this is because you are dis-interested in the degree then its time to start another one (if you want). Do one in something completely different.

If you want some money and a satisfying job present, look to go into farming. I found a job at an organic vegetable farm and it is the most fulfilling job i have ever had. I do it in the summers.

Another option might be a year out, or certainly a year away from education. If you took a gap year or 2 maybe, you might rekindle some of the work spirit.

You definately do have talent for programming mate, like your ascii stuff. Thats some cool stuff and stuff i certainly wouldn't even think up, let alone do.

Anyhoo, keep your head high and even when it seems there is no hope, there is always something waiting around the corner.

Take care man,

ace

paulecoyote

Aug 8, 2005 at 5:40 AM

You know what, you've said categorically what you don't like - but not been particularly enthusastic about what you actually want to do.

I've seen your skills on here so I know you can get things done - a lot more then a lot of people can say... those text things you do obviously hold your interest long enough to complete them.

I'm sure it is just a matter of focus and discipline... but it's hard to do that unless you have a clear goal.

So what do you actually want to end up doing? What job would make you want to get out of bed in the morning?

meh

Aug 8, 2005 at 5:45 AM

Mate you're only 19, save up some cash and go explore the world a bit. Degrees, jobs and life will still all be there when you get back but in the interim enjoy your youth and come back with a little more perspective.

Everyone is different but it sounds like you need time out.

After I finished my A-Levels I was totally shagged out by the amount of pressure and work involved and took a year out before going to Uni. I spent the year working in a call centre and basically vegging out. Wasn't the most interesting stage of my life but it gave me the time to relax.

Slightly rambling I know but its the best advice I can come up with. [wink]

zdlr

Aug 8, 2005 at 6:32 AM

I don't understand how you got into Cambridge while being slow with a poor short-term memory.

I'd suggest trying a uni a scale down from Cambridge that has a good reputation for Computer Science. The University of Manchester is a good bet. Also, a lot of people who don't get into Cambridge go to my home town uni- Durham (although I can't vouch for the quality of CS here).

Personally, I'm at Manchester Metropolitan University. Basically, it's a mickey-mouse uni that hand out mickey-mouse degrees, but it's the best I could do with my terrible A-Levels. Thankfully, I can do well in this course without too much effort.

Eelco

Aug 8, 2005 at 6:45 AM

not that we know eachother all that well, but id say your problem isnt a lack of abilities. it seems to be your lack of motivation towards it (although you might want to reconsider the benefits of the torture that seems to be cambridge).

id suggest what other have said: go do something completely different for a year or so. dont pressure yourself with your programming job too much, but try to get into something, a job or something else that gets you into contact with a bunch of new people.

benryves

Aug 8, 2005 at 6:52 AM

I don't know what I want to do, what job I want to do, what I enjoy doing purely because I haven't enjoyed doing anything for a long time. I have very little time that isn't work time and don't have any interests beyond blindly doing what I've been told to do.
All the programming stuff has been done because when I did have some time to do something else I didn't know what else to do. I find a lot of programming frustratingly difficult and don't enjoy it. However, it's probably my only skill, so I have tried to develop it. People seem to like the stuff I write, so I kept at it.
I guess this thread is pointless... I don't know what I want, and it's silly asking you because you won't know either.

EDIT: About "going and doing something different", "travelling", that sort of thing - no can do. I have no money, and cannot change job.

dave

Aug 8, 2005 at 6:54 AM

Ben the best you can do is keep busy until you can get some ideas.

Take care,

ace

exoskeletal_ninja

Aug 8, 2005 at 6:56 AM

Holey Crap. I was in the same position you are in right now:

Finished secondary studies in '02. Didnt get accepted into tertiary ed because of my grades but found other some 'dumb' study doing an aircraft maintainance course. Didnt like that and ran out of funds to study so I was unemployed for ~6 months. I was 19 and had depression and all those angsty fellings too. Got myself a traineeship in communications cabling. Didn't like that. Finally got accepted for tertiary study in the second semester of '04 in CS. Found it way too boring. I was fretting out bigtime and was poor as. Hell, I even tried the army and sucked at that.

I transferred into Microelectronic engineering this year and havent looked back since. The moral of this bloated story:

-> examine yourself in all seriousness and find what it is you like. If you like solving puzzles and making stuff, go with the electronics.
-> get yourself some goals man, focusing on the present will just get you down
-> Talking to people you know helps.

To wrap it up, Im studying my dream degree, Im moving out really soon :) and Im finding out that all this shit can happen to you in life and it sucks, and it gets you down, but perseverence pays off.

Good luck benryves.

Terlenth

Aug 8, 2005 at 7:00 AM

I have the same lack of motivation when it comes to most things, but fortunately I had people riding my case while at school for me to get things done. I'm really trying to gain the motivation to do things at school.

I'd say that you do need to figure out what you'd like to do, and then motivate yourself to get there.

If you need a university degree to get where you want to go, then I'd say just figure out a way to motivate yourself to get the work done. That is the HR people at a place that has the position you want tells you that you need a university degree,

In my case I'm just getting the degree in order to make it easier to get a job. I don't really know what I want to do with my life. But, as the Bank of Montreal said, "We don't care what your degree is in, if you have one we'll hire and train you" (Not the exact quotation).

Eelco

Aug 8, 2005 at 7:06 AM

Quote:
Original post by benryves
I don't know what I want to do, what job I want to do, what I enjoy doing purely because I haven't enjoyed doing anything for a long time.

its a negative cycle i suppose. you could try professional help, but the bottom line is that youll need to break it. aside from more detailled advice on how to break it, another obvious way a professional could help you would be with medication.

Quote:

I have very little time that isn't work time

isnt that your own choice? you live at home, what costs can you have? programming should fetch you close to a pound or ten an hour if youre not getting ripped off, so even living on your own in student-like living conditions should be archievable with a very bearable workload, no?

Quote:

and don't have any interests beyond blindly doing what I've been told to do.

its really easy to make a carreer out of that. take the millitairy for instance :)

Quote:

All the programming stuff has been done because when I did have some time to do something else I didn't know what else to do. I find a lot of programming frustratingly difficult and don't enjoy it. However, it's probably my only skill, so I have tried to develop it. People seem to like the stuff I write, so I kept at it.

not a single line of good code gets written without being difficult and frustrating. but you dont have to be the best at what you do in order to do it. its a mistake i also often make, but just taking a good unskewed look at your peers is usually quite uplifting.

ukdeveloper

Aug 8, 2005 at 7:12 AM

Ben,

I'm the same, I often lack motivation and I've got the worst memory ever. I'm off to St. Andrews for CS in September.

I don't think Cambridge is for you, really. My brother loved it there, but I just can't stand the place at all (town and university), I wouldn't go even if I could get in. It's too traditional, old-fashioned and formal for my liking, and they have some really stupid rules. St. Andrews looks like it'll suit me better.

What other universities did you apply for?

Anyway, some of your programming is bloody good, it really is, sure blows me away! I'm in a similar situation, I sometimes find programming difficult and sometimes want to give up (especially C++, I'm vaguely toying with the idea of binning it and trying C#), but if you've got a talent, don't let it go out.

You know, software companies (especially games) are known to take people based on experience above education, why don't you have a go at a full-time coding job? I know the pay isn't too good at times, but it'll mean you have a steady income and a feeling of purpose. You did say you didn't really enjoy programming, but the truth is a lot of people end up in jobs they hate, and it stays that way. But you're good at it, you could go a long way.

Option 2: Like some others said, try looking for a different CS degree. Like I say, Cambridge definitely wasn't for you (or wouldn't be for me either, I could rant all day about that, but I won't). One of the degrees I looked at was Applied Computing at Dundee, focussing mainly on software development and real-world applications, less on the academic side (they even said you didn't really need maths unless you're doing AI) - that might suit you.

One reason I chose St. Andrews was because the degree seemed more broad across the board, but everyone is different. See what you think.

Sorry for the long post, but I hope I've managed to nudge you in the right direction.

Good luck in your decision, all the best mate! [smile]

ukdeveloper.

benryves

Aug 8, 2005 at 7:17 AM

Quote:
Original post by Eelco
you live at home, what costs can you have?

Living with parents is a "cost", as far as I'm concerned.

Quote:
Original post by Eelco
programming should fetch you close to a pound or ten an hour if youre not getting ripped off.

I am earning exactly nothing at the moment. This is a job with the family, so I can't escape it either, not for quite a while. If I was getting paid I'd be off like a shot to try and rent some accomodation somewhere.

Quote:
Original post by exoskeletal_ninja
Talking to people you know helps.

Hence this. You lot are the only people I know. The only people who respond, that is.

Quote:
Original post by ukdeveloper
What other universities did you apply for?

UMIST, Imperial, Bath and Surrey. Imperial/Cambridge = AAA, UMIST = AAB, Bath/Surrey = ABB (I think?)
All (apart from Cambridge) were for Electronics-based courses. I am not even going to contemplate doing another CS degree. [rolleyes]

polly

Aug 8, 2005 at 7:35 AM

Man, you have some serious problems mate. I don't even know where to begin.

The first is an apparently unreasoned lack of self confidence. I had this as a teenager for a long time, and some great new friends at University helped me get over most of it, but I am aware I was very lucky in meeting them. I would recommend going and seeing a therapist about it; the longer you have such a low opinion of yourself, the more it becomes embedded as part of your own personality. Do something about it now.

The second problem you seem to have is your parents. I don't know them, or what they do, but getting your son to work for you as free labour, at the expense of his independence, seems very wrong to me.

The third problem you have is actually the least serious one (IMHO), and its the one you seem most concerned about; namely, not knowing where you stand in terms of getting a degree.

I'd write more, but don't have the time at the moment mate. Speak later,

Jon

EDIT: On the second point. I was so painfully shy as a teenager, I couldn't bring myself to go anywhere and actually try and get a job. I suspect this may be part of the problem too.

Eelco

Aug 8, 2005 at 7:38 AM

Quote:
Original post by benryves
Quote:
Original post by Eelco
you live at home, what costs can you have?
Living with parents is a "cost", as far as I'm concerned.
Quote:
Original post by Eelco
programming should fetch you close to a pound or ten an hour if youre not getting ripped off.
I am earning exactly nothing at the moment. This is a job with the family, so I can't escape it either, not for quite a while. If I was getting paid I'd be off like a shot to try and rent some accomodation somewhere.

err... that sounds kinda borked to me. if you want to help out in the family biz, thats great, except for the fact that you do not sound like that at all.

if youre making 40 hours a week for your family, they owe you more than just costs of living.

as for not being able to escape it: i dont know the specifics of the situation ofcource, but it sounds as if at this point in your life, you have better things to do than helping realize someone elses dream.

HAM

Aug 8, 2005 at 7:38 AM

I'd suggest therapy.

You can figure this out. You just need the right setting to do so.

polly

Aug 8, 2005 at 7:42 AM

Quote:
Original post by Eelco
Quote:
Original post by benryves
Quote:
Original post by Eelco
you live at home, what costs can you have?
Living with parents is a "cost", as far as I'm concerned.
Quote:
Original post by Eelco
programming should fetch you close to a pound or ten an hour if youre not getting ripped off.
I am earning exactly nothing at the moment. This is a job with the family, so I can't escape it either, not for quite a while. If I was getting paid I'd be off like a shot to try and rent some accomodation somewhere.

err... that sounds kinda borked to me. if you want to help out in the family biz, thats great, except for the fact that you do not sound like that at all.

if youre making 40 hours a week for your family, they owe you more than just costs of living.

as for not being able to escape it: i dont know the specifics of the situation ofcource, but it sounds as if at this point in your life, you have better things to do than helping realize someone elses dream.

I totally agree. If your parents are not paying you anything at all, and claiming your work covers your living costs, then thats just plain .... wrong.

I managed to live on my own and study whilst doing shifts at a local hotel. It was only £3.20 per hour, but I managed.

tstrimp

Aug 8, 2005 at 8:04 AM

Rent some webspace and start a porn site. I hear those can make a lot of money plus it should be a fun experience, no degree required. [wink]

elfpimpdidi

Aug 8, 2005 at 8:20 AM

Getting a degree for the sake of it is bloody difficult if you're bad with motivation. I'm awful; I couldn't do it.

I started a Computer Systems course at Oxford Brookes and stayed on that for a year and two terms. I hated it. The course didn't interest me at all, and though I love Oxford as a city (I'd give a lot to live there again sometime), I just didn't get along with the University at all. Did no work, failed most modules, yadda yadda.

Then I left and started at Teesside, entering into second year as I'd already studied close to two years at Brookes. Wow. What a change. I enjoy the course at Teesside immensely (Computer Games Programming.. My main problem with the course at Brookes was that it was so general we didn't go into any detail on anything, so I opted for something a little more specific), and as a result of that find myself not needing motivation, just doing the work because I love it and because I want to do it. It's just been a complete turnaround.

So I would say, if you find something you love doing, study it, otherwise don't bother. That with the caveat that you should obviously *look* for something you love doing, rather than hoping to stumble across it, but that kinda goes without saying.

Topic Locked

This topic has been locked by a moderator. New replies are not allowed.