Eternal damnation.

Punishing someone you created, while you were allmighty and allknowing, is quite sick anyway. But no, I don't think anyone deserves to live forever.

Don't think about it too much, or your head will explode. I used to be really scared that I might go to hell, until I realized that the whole thing doesn't make even the slightest bit of sense. [grin]

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Original post by twix Don't think about it too much, or your head will explode. I used to be really scared that I might go to hell, until I realized that the whole thing doesn't make even the slightest bit of sense. [grin]

Weird advice. You thought about it, and realized that it's bullshit while keeping your head intact. So what's wrong with thinking about it? O_o

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Original post by Matthias Lange Quote: Original post by twix Don't think about it too much, or your head will explode. I used to be really scared that I might go to hell, until I realized that the whole thing doesn't make even the slightest bit of sense. [grin] Weird advice. You thought about it, and realized that it's bullshit while keeping your head intact. So what's wrong with thinking about it? O_o

I was trying to come up with a logical explanation, and just bailed out when I felt the pressure in my head approaching dangerous levels. [wink]

What’s the point in trying to create a logical argument based on a premise (God) that is improvable?

Ok, so lets assume that a dead fish is God… oh wait we “know” that god cant die, so therefore he can not have been the fish. Witch in it self is logically problematic, because the fish is dead, but he was that. Wow, perhaps he was only the living fish.. Perhaps I should type more pointless philosophical stuff. Nope.

How can you talk about a God that you don't even know? I mean, you're not even sure if he exist... you are far from knowing him personnaly. You cannot assume that God wouldn't do this based on your thoughts only.

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Original post by Kelendil How can you talk about a God that you don't even know? I mean, you're not even sure if he exist... you are far from knowing him personnaly. You cannot assume that God wouldn't do this based on your thoughts only.

Generally, the OP's argument is derived from the stuff written in the Bible. In other words, the problem is that there's a lot of cognitive dissonance involved in resolving the idea of an infinitely kind and benevolent God (who would apparently sacrifice his own son for us, although why he would need to do that is unclear), and a God who would abandon us sinners to eternal torment.

And if somebody can't really be sorry for what they did (a psychopath), then is it really their fault? 0_o

A sentence of billions and billions of years for a 100 years of sin strikes me as quite excessive.

Let me add a couple of premises to your argument:

1) There is a god.
1a) This god is omniscient, omnipotent, and benevolent. He is possessed of infinite mercy.
2) Everyone has an immortal soul.
3) There is a hell filled with torture and torment.
3a) Those placed in this hell suffer this torture eternally.

I know that's what you meant, but I thought it was worth clarifying in order to structure my argument.

I would suggest that point 3a shows not only a lack of mercy, but an infinite lack of mercy. Since it is impossible to redeem yourself from hell (according to the premises stated above), a soul, once placed there, will never be shown any mercy.

Therefore statements 1a and 3a are contradictory. It is impossible for both statements to be true.

Now, if you were to say that god is just, rather than that he is merciful, that would be more open to debate. Some would say that those who suffer in hell deserve it. Others would say that eternal suffering is unjust, no matter the crime. I would tend to side with them, since I would argue that no crime committed by a mortal entity will affect anyone eternally.

...

From the way I understand it, it is you yourself who is ultimately responsible for going to hell, because you chose it, not what some external force is doing to you.

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Original post by TANSTAAFL ... From the way I understand it, it is you yourself who is ultimately responsible for going to hell, because you chose it, not what some external force is doing to you.

Well, looking at it that way doesn't seem ultimate enough to me. After all, isn't it God who made the rules as to what happens to you if you do this or that? Why would he design life with the worst possible penalty imaginable just for not believing in him?

Remember that if the Bible is to be believed, a believer who repents will be forgiven ANY crime. And a good person who doesn't believe is damned no matter what. (I'm not sure where it says this in the Bible, but this is what the Christians on this board have told me. I must say, that made me less scared I'm going to hell than ever. [grin])

Eternal souls, heaven, and hell don't make much sense. Besides the total lack of physical evidence and even as a social construct to insure people follow social conventions punishment ie hell is pretty uneffective. Fear of punishment just makes people want to not get caught.

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I’m not saying that there shouldn’t be a Purgatory to deal with people who do horrible things; I just think that people change and they can be truly sorry for what they did.

This very statement says you've internalized one of the basic tenants of Christianity: the idea that people can change and can make a choice was completely revolutionary 2000 years ago.

I think it's only fair that if you chose to live your life on earth without God, you spend the rest of eternity without Him.

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Original post by Kelendil I think it's only fair that if you chose to live your life on earth without God, you spend the rest of eternity without Him.

This should make perfect sense to an atheist.

Honestly, God wouldn't give a rats ass about some of the shit humanity does. He'd probably laugh - "hey look at that freak getting his rocks off on feet", "what a jackass for gambling his life away, he'll regret it." and so on. Compared to the universe(s) he's made, and possible multiple life experiments, he's probably got better things to do than to watch all your sins in minitude. Just follow that golden rule.

Maybe we're all in the proverbial computer sim and our souls will be backed up on the hard drive of heaven. Who the hell know until the ceasing of sentience.

Damn.

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Original post by Kelendil I think it's only fair that if you chose to live your life on earth without God, you spend the rest of eternity without Him.

Not really fair, no. Those of us who are brought up to rely mostly on evidence have an exceptionally difficult time making the right choice in that situation. We're being abandoned to eternal suffering just because we've been taught from birth to be skeptical about ideas without solid evidence behind them? And still you say that God loves us all? Heh.

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Original post by twix Quote: Original post by Kelendil I think it's only fair that if you chose to live your life on earth without God, you spend the rest of eternity without Him. Not really fair, no. Those of us who are brought up to rely mostly on evidence have an exceptionally difficult time making the right choice in that situation. We're being abandoned to eternal suffering just because we've been taught from birth to be skeptical about ideas without solid evidence behind them? And still you say that God loves us all? Heh.

Does your sense that this wouldn't be fair presume that God exists?