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should copy protection be scrapped?

Started by wilhil Oct 24, 2005 at 9:20 PM 41 replies 3.6k views
Original Post
wilhil
wilhil
Hi I have to say, to begin with as a developer, I do not want my software to be hacked/cracked/leaked or whatever else, but recently, I just honestly think that copy protection is useless. I do not want to post a link here as I will probably get told off! but take a typical information site that just lists releases and not actuall downloads, and you will see almost all the latest released games including quake 4, age of empires 3... just to name a few. it seems to me that all what copy protection does really is annoy the end user. I have to say, I am against people who simply just download movies, games, everything and do not pay for anything, but I am not ashamed to say I have downloaded a few games for the reason that either they were not available to the UK, or impossible to get oldies, (take SEIV, I loved the demo, but could not find it anywhere in the UK, I downloaded it, and then eventually I found somewhere and did buy it) I have also downloaded some older games on to a seporate machine in my test lab just to see what happens. I have chosen doom 3 and halflife 2, as these games were both big anticipated releases. (FYI I do not like doom 3 and will be removing it after, I do not like horror based games... and I own HL2) now then, both games downloaded at moderate speed, within 12 hours, on doom 3, I have nothing to compare it to, but it was a simple install, then copy over a couple of cracked .exe files, tried the game, and it worked fine... I like that duck minigame thing! but damn I dont like dark games, it scares me far to easily! now then as for halflife 2, if I am honest, I prefeared this install to the real thing! during the real install, it needed to connect to steam, I basically had quite a few diffrent problems that I will not mention, but basically the pirated version installed quicker, and not only that, to run the game and to play it, I found everything about it faster. From these 2 examples, I may be a programmer, and do a lot of technical things in my job, but I am no cracker, I am not in to music and download loads of mp3 tunes, but for this job, call me a normal computer user. I installed a p2p client, downloaded the game, and had it installed. I did not see any evidence of any copy protection anywhere. Pirates always exist, and I am sure they will always be there, copy protection honestly seems to be useless, and in the end only annoys the consumer, infact 2 nights ago, I finished some work early and descided to raid my old cupboard for old games I havent touched in years, I found incoming forces. I installed this on my XP machine, and when I played it, it crashed immediatly after a safedisc based splash screen. I remember that the game does not even initialise until after a settings box comes up, so it can not be any old direct x incompatibility, I descided to try a "no cd" program, (again these are only meant for people who own the game, and I am not ashamed to say I tried) and to my shock, the game started faster, and IT WORKS. in my experiance, copy protection, is just annoying, it hurts the consumer, and does not stop any sort of cracking attempts by the professionals, and in the end, if a person wants to get a game for free, they will not do the old trick of returning it to a shop, so a cd checker is needed to see it, people can just download and play. I really think that something smart needs to be done, copy protection at the moment only makes games slower at start up, and infact is one of the main reasons people do not like computer games, it annoys people, especially systems like starforce that leave horrible files everywhere, and in the end, none of them actually prevents piracy. To date, I can not think of a single popular game that has not been cracked, fine some of them take time, but in the end, they all have the same fate. The only things I can think of are, a type of single build distribution, this will take so long to do, but if you only have one serial number per copy, verification on a single server.... ahh, I can see this being cracked aswell! I just do not think there is a end to it, and my experiances show that with the modern fast internet, it is very easy to download a game without restrictions, I can play a game like doom 3 for free, but a game I paid for a few years ago, I can not even start without actually downloading a crack for it. I was wondering without a flame war, what are your oppinions on the current state of copy protection, and where do you think it will be going in the future. ---edit, did not want to make a seporate post here, whilst I was experimenting with this, and went in to doom3, I loved the graphics and my fav was those controls and how real they looked! I was wondering what is the name of that technology that allows for ingame panels where the mouse takes over and they are interactive? and honestly apart from that, I did not really like it, played the first bit, and did I miss or did it really have no head shot? I uninstalled it after that as I found it to scary and actually a bit boring... when I have more time, I may buy it for moding if that is possible! [Edited by - wilhil on December 10, 2005 1:58:15 PM]
>wilhil<
jfclavette
jfclavette
Yes.

Quite simply, all copy protection schemes dumb down to assembly jmps Remove the offending jmps and voilà, a cracked game. Now, the next step is hardware copy protection. This makes it slightly harder, but modify the hardware and voilà, cracked hardware. The final step is a distant key-checker. Write a server emulator and voilà, a cracked online game.

Of course, it is progressively harder to do, but I feel that pirates like the challenge. And it only takes one dedicated individual to provide all the community with the software.

On the flipside, Joe Honest-Customer invites Mighty-H4x0r in his room, and the evil hacker steals his CD-key while he's taking a dump. Might-H4x0r uses it online and gets him banned. So he gets screwed for the misdeeds of some asshole.
I teleported home one night; With Ron and Sid and Meg; Ron stole Meggie's heart away; And I got Sydney's leg. <> I'm blogging, emo style
DaWanderer
DaWanderer
Simple fact of reality: if it is possible to render the content on your local machine, it is possible to "steal" it from your local machine.

No matter how much copy protection you apply, apart from not allowing anyone to view it, it can be broken. Do companies honestly think they're smarter than the hacker community? That they've discovered some trick that hasn't been tried yet?
wilhil
wilhil
this is the point I am trying to make, do not get me wrong, I do not want piracy or anything, but frankly at the moment all what copy protection is, is infact annoying to the end, legal, user. the people who want a illegal copy are not the pirates (who if you actually read the .nfo files, look like they actually buy the game!) but are the end users who get a uncracked copy.

something needs to be done, but not how it currently is.
>wilhil<
bjle
bjle
I've seen these arguments enough times to know the counter already: "anything that makes it just a little harder for some kid to steal this game/software xyz I helped make/publish is worth it."

Yet, anyone smart enough to use a disassembler could get any piece of software they wanted very easily from a P2P network probably within a few days of release. (It's really annoying really, as a paying consumer, to see your friends get all these things for free)

Scrapping copy protection would seem to be a good idea. Seems to me, copy protection is just ONE MORE reason to pirate software on top of convenience and price.

The choice as to whether or not to pirate software is at this point is based in no way on whether or not you CAN; it's simply a matter of morals vs convenience; copy protection is probably stopping an insignificant amount of piracy, and it's just plain annoying.

CD keys on the other hand do seem to stop a good portion of piracy. I know people who pirate all single-player games, but not multiplayer ones because CD key protection seems to be much harder to get around. In addition, these only provide an inconvenience at install time (or if you get your key stolen). These, I don't mind.
nagromo
nagromo
Copy protection has pissed me off plenty of times, but it doesn't stop me from buying the games I really want. Unless we actually do something about copy protection by boycotting games with annoying copy protection, there's no reason for the game studios to do anything about it. I don't know about you, but if a game looks fun, I'll play it, even if the copy protection is really annoying. (If it's bad enough, I'll just install a crack on the game after I've installed it with my official CDs.)

Yes it's possible for almost anyone to download a crack now, but look at the actual population of computer users. How much effort does it take to search for the crack, read the instructions, and follow the instructions? Keep in mind that many people would have trouble opening the .nfo file in a text editor because that's not the default association. If they could just install it and give the CD to a friend without problems, it would be much, much easier. On the other hand, maybe those who are more likely to want to pirate software are also more computer literate... I don't know.

Copy protection won't stop you from cracking the game, but it will make it take more effort.

Unless studios believe that copy protection is hurting their sales more than it helps them, they'll keep using it.
_Sigma
_Sigma
Most copy protection stuff is easily cracked. The only one that really didn't get cracked was StarForce 3, Chaos Theory's protection. The work around for that is pretty sick, involing disabling your hardware CD drives and stuff. I laughed so hard at my m8 who tried this, he spent 5hours working on it, in which time he'd have made enough to buy it...

I agree with the OP, in that I own HL2, but the priated copy runs faster and cleaner than Valves POS version. Its really sad when this happens....
wilhil
wilhil
I agree, I am all for key codes, and basically things that are just slightly inconvinent that can cut down a bit of piracy, but I am just not for any serious copy protection that actually affects other areas of your pc (aka starforce) or ones that can slow down a game or be inconvinent (aka most copy protection!)
>wilhil<
Yann L
Yann L
Correct me if I'm wrong (I don't really keep up with the cracking scene), but afaik the StarForce copy protection has not yet been cracked (although it is supposed to create lots of trouble even for legitimate users).

Anyway, there are in fact two different forms of 'perfect' copy protection. The first is the trusted computing platform, where the encryption hardware is actually on die in the CPU. Good luck at cracking that. Now, as wonderful this technology could be, there are a lot of privacy concerns with it, as it can obviously be abused.

The second method is offloading gamelogic and AI calculations onto a central server. The game itself is nothing but a graphics render engine with audio and input components - basically a modern form of a thin client terminal. Every key you press is sent to the server. The server then sends back the position and animation data for each entity in the world. The games 3D engine finally renders the whole thing onto the clients screen. The game itself would not contain any game logic at all. This system obviously requires a permanent very high bandwidth connection to a very powerful server farm on the publishers side. This restricts usage, but it will definitely become more and more viable in the future.
_Sigma
_Sigma
Quote:
Original post by nagromo(If it's bad enough, I'll just install a crack on the game after I've installed it with my official CDs.)

I think thats the point of this thread. You shouldn't have to do that.

wilhil
wilhil
Quote:
Original post by _Sigma
Quote:
Original post by nagromo(If it's bad enough, I'll just install a crack on the game after I've installed it with my official CDs.)

I think thats the point of this thread. You shouldn't have to do that.


That is exactly correct. apart from some games like c and c where everything blows up with copy protection! or ones where it is not a problem, I have had to resort to downloading cracks to my real games, again, requires very little effort by me to actually break these systems.

It was my "quick after work game" on incoming forces, where I needed to get a crack in order to get it to work, that made me download doom 3 and hl2 in my lab, and make this whole topic. copy protection on this game, aka a old safedisc version, actually is incompatible with xp. with the crack, it worked fine!

just makes me really wonder, all these games that people say are not compatible with xp, could it be old copy protection that actually makes them fail? if I honestly think about it, most that get re released where they work with the latest OS are usually by diffrent publishers with diffrent copy protection. I know that trying to blame all of xp's incompatibilitys on copy protection is a long shot, but it could be the answer to some, I know in this case it was.
>wilhil<
DigitalChaos
DigitalChaos
Quote:
Original post by Yann L
Correct me if I'm wrong (I don't really keep up with the cracking scene), but afaik the StarForce copy protection has not yet been cracked (although it is supposed to create lots of trouble even for legitimate users).


actually, StarForce has been cracked recently. You can now play any game that is starforce protected without a cd.

I do not support piracy, just wanna make that clear. :)
Yann L
Yann L
Quote:
Original post by DigitalChaos
actually, StarForce has been cracked recently. You can now play any game that is starforce protected without a cd.

Oh well, it was just a matter of time anyway.
wilhil
wilhil
Quote:
Original post by DigitalChaos
Quote:
Original post by Yann L
Correct me if I'm wrong (I don't really keep up with the cracking scene), but afaik the StarForce copy protection has not yet been cracked (although it is supposed to create lots of trouble even for legitimate users).


actually, StarForce has been cracked recently. You can now play any game that is starforce protected without a cd.

I do not support piracy, just wanna make that clear. :)


even systems that are meant to be unbreakable, just take time!

do the makers of these copy protection methods actually call them unbreakable? I enquired about copy protection for another project I am working on, (dvd related), it was about a year ago, and for the least protection I was quoted over $50,000

I am not sure how games relate, but frankly I may either do something in house or not bother, it seems a rediculous ammount for something that just gets cracked in the end.
>wilhil<
jfclavette
jfclavette
Another form of copy protection that might work is the gradual degradation of the game. Picture a RPG that quietly set a flag when you are using a pirated version. Later, in the game, the guards of the castle stop you and say. "Sorry sir, pirates are not allowed." or enemies that are randomly invincibles.

I recall this was used in some old DOS games. Whatever happened with those ?

Of course, when something goes wrong... you have a VERY pissed customer...
I teleported home one night; With Ron and Sid and Meg; Ron stole Meggie's heart away; And I got Sydney's leg. <> I'm blogging, emo style
nagromo
nagromo
Quote:
Original post by wilhil
Quote:
Original post by DigitalChaos
Quote:
Original post by Yann L
Correct me if I'm wrong (I don't really keep up with the cracking scene), but afaik the StarForce copy protection has not yet been cracked (although it is supposed to create lots of trouble even for legitimate users).


actually, StarForce has been cracked recently. You can now play any game that is starforce protected without a cd.

I do not support piracy, just wanna make that clear. :)


even systems that are meant to be unbreakable, just take time!

do the makers of these copy protection methods actually call them unbreakable? I enquired about copy protection for another project I am working on, (dvd related), it was about a year ago, and for the least protection I was quoted over $50,000

I am not sure how games relate, but frankly I may either do something in house or not bother, it seems a rediculous ammount for something that just gets cracked in the end.


If you're developing it yourself, you could just do a basic check to see if the disc is in the drive. As long as the disc is in something that Windows sees as a CD drive and it has the correct file/key/data, the game will run. That shouldn't really inconvenience any legitimate users. Yes it would be cracked very quickly, but so would anything else. Either way, the average user either pays for it and uses it with a CD, or they go out and download a crack. Unless you really think you can beat the crackers or significantly delay them, I don't see any reason not to use minimalistic copy protection only, especially because of the benefits to legitimate users.
wilhil
wilhil
Quote:
Original post by jfclavette
Another form of copy protection that might work is the gradual degradation of the game. Picture a RPG that quietly set a flag when you are using a pirated version. Later, in the game, the guards of the castle stop you and say. "Sorry sir, pirates are not allowed." or enemies that are randomly invincibles.

I recall this was used in some old DOS games. Whatever happened with those ?

Of course, when something goes wrong... you have a VERY pissed customer...


I have to agree here, I think that the best thing for piracy could be something along the lines of not a common system, but a in house developed system that is diffrent in each game, and that you will not know it has been activated untill it is to late, and then this could actually be linked in to a more complex system such as it asks you for a code to continue, but for the code you need to register somewhere.... basically there are loads of options.

I just think that copy protection trys to go far to annoy people, but then sometimes not far enough, for example earth 2160's system looks promosing (I bought the game, but tried a crack in my lab) and there system looks good, but then they do offline telephone processing. fine this is for people without internet, but they should skip this in my book, it is this sort of thing that gives crackers the chance to see how the system works... ahh il stop replying here for a little while and then il have loads to read when i wake up in the morning!

good night
>wilhil<
haro
haro
Copy protection is one ( of several ) reasons I quit PC gaming. You spend $50 on a game, waste several gigs installing it and then it still demands you go dig out the CD everytime you want to play it. On top of that I get to enjoy everything going choppy and listening to my CD drive start churning every few seconds as it ensures I still have the 'legitimate' CD in the drive. Many games are practically, if not literally, impossible to play thanks to copy protection -- especially if you have a less common brand CD drive. It's all a waste of my time and money. I also just love looking at my task manager and seeing the various copy protection schemes constantly running and sucking up my system resources.

Hail console gaming! [grin]
bikola_p
bikola_p
There should be like a sierra's steam network, for Software. Anyone who has an interent connection should get there Software serials put in a DB, and duplicates should get blocked, even the originals. People without connections can get away with copies, however, this is a very small number.
Users which get busted,should be prompt to enter serial each time, until a total unique one is put in, which means they went out and bought the softare.
Emmanuel Deloget
Emmanuel Deloget
Quote:
Original post by _Sigma
Quote:
Original post by nagromo(If it's bad enough, I'll just install a crack on the game after I've installed it with my official CDs.)

I think thats the point of this thread. You shouldn't have to do that.


But you often have to. For an unknown reason, NwN fails to detect the CD when I play on my laptop. Atari basically told me "sorry, but ya looser, change your CD drive, uh uh uh" (which is not really what I call a cool and serious advice - I mean, it is a laptop) and I had to install a no-cd patch to get rid of this problem.

That's annoying because I own 2 copies of NwN, so you really can't tell me that I'm a pirate O_o.

Sad to say but I just hope that I won't face the same problem with a game that can't be pirated :/

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