IA32?

Download the x86 version unless and only unless you want to develop for AMD64 or IA64. The CPU in your own computer has no bearing on it. (And is probably not 64-bit anyways, as Intel's are tremendously expensive and unpopular).

IA32 == x86.

IA32 and x86 are basically the same thing. IA32 refers to Pentium processors or better. x86 goes back farther than that, to the days of 80x86 chips. See 80x86. And for more detail than you can handle, check out: sandpile.org.

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Original post by LessBread IA32 refers to Pentium processors or better.

Not to be nitpicky or anything, but IIRC the first IA32 CPU was the Intel 80386.

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Original post by samv Not to be nitpicky or anything, but IIRC the first IA32 CPU was the Intel 80386.

That's a lame apology for nitpicking.

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Original post by LessBread That's a lame apology for nitpicking.

Actually, his phrasing wasn't really an apology, but rather a statement of intent.

The term ia32 is mostly just marketing/legal masterbation designed to differentiate Intel products from AMD products as well as to link the x86/ia32 architecture to the new Intel-only Itanium (ia64) architecture in the minds of gullible consumers despite them not even vaguely resembling each other (ia64 code is downright scarey!).

IA-STONEAGE :p

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...wanted a chip for a new calculator. With incredible overkill, Intel built the world's first general-purpose microprocessor.

My kind of guys :) Incredible overkill, no kidding!

IA-64 code scary, you should see the code for that (4004) thing!

[Edited by - Caitlin on November 1, 2005 3:36:04 PM]

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Original post by Sneftel Quote: Original post by LessBread That's a lame apology for nitpicking. Actually, his phrasing wasn't really an apology, but rather a statement of intent.

I interpretted it as a mealy mouthed admission of nitpicking. The way I see it, he should just have pointed out the fact - IA32 applies to 386 and better. The third paragraph to the wiki link I dropped explained the nitpick.

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The architecture has twice been extended to a larger word size. In 1985, Intel released the 32-bit 386 to replace the 16-bit 286. The 32-bit architecture is called x86-32 or IA-32 (an abbreviation for Intel Architecture, 32-bit).

I suppose samv didn't bother to check that out and didn't think that anyone else would either. The fact is, I took the remark about Pentium or better from the first chapter of Vol 1 of the IA32 Manual (June 2005).

Not to pretend to care, but ... [wink]

I'm not sure I understand your point. Do you still claim "IA32 refers to Pentium processors or better" is true, and do you deny that "the first IA32 CPU was the Intel 80386"?
Or is this just about my unskilled (offending?) wording in this crazy language I just barely know? If that's the case, please accept my apologies and ignore the rest of this message.

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IA-32 Intel® Architecture Software Developer’s Manual Volume 1 This manual set includes information pertaining primarily to the most recent IA-32 processors, which include: Pentium® processors, P6 family processors, Pentium 4 processors, Pentium M processors, Intel® Xeon™ processors, the Pentium D processors, and the Pentium processor Extreme Editions.

I assume you refer to this statement, which IMO totally fails to support your point (as does your quote from wikipedia).

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Wiki-counter-quote: This instruction set was introduced in the Intel 80386 microprocessor in 1985.

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Original post by samv I'm not sure I understand your point. Do you still claim "IA32 refers to Pentium processors or better" is true, and do you deny that "the first IA32 CPU was the Intel 80386"? Or is this just about my unskilled (offending?) wording in this crazy language I just barely know? If that's the case, please accept my apologies and ignore the rest of this message.

To state the fact, the first IA32 was the 386. The "pentium or better" remark came from my paraphrase of the information from the IA32 manual. The manual doesn't explicitly mention 386 or 486 opting instead to reference these using the vague wording "most recent". It does specifically mention Pentium and several newer processors as you quote.

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IA-32 Intel® Architecture Software Developer’s Manual Volume 1 This manual set includes information pertaining primarily to the most recent IA-32 processors, which include: Pentium® processors, P6 family processors, Pentium 4 processors, Pentium M processors, Intel® Xeon™ processors, the Pentium D processors, and the Pentium processor Extreme Editions.

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Original post by samv I assume you refer to this statement, which IMO totally fails to support your point (as does your quote from wikipedia).

It doesn't totally fail to support the point as it omits any reference to 386 or 486 chips. It would seem that Intel thinks those processors are no longer even worth mentioning.

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Original post by samv Quote: Wiki-counter-quote: This instruction set was introduced in the Intel 80386 microprocessor in 1985.

Yes, which is the kind of detail that reading the wiki link would make clear. However, in practical terms, the 386 and 486 are hardly worth the mention. [grin]

Yes, the 386 is IA-32 architecture. 32 bit registers, 32-bit data bus (on most types), 32-bit coprocessor, 32-bit instruction set (meaning instructions that previous CPUs didn't have), etc.

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This manual set includes information pertaining primarily to the most recent IA-32 processors, which include: Pentium® processors, P6 family processors, Pentium 4 processors, Pentium M processors, Intel® Xeon™ processors, the Pentium D processors, and the Pentium processor Extreme Editions.

The text says PRIMARILY, which means that it was written to adress the mentioned CPUs. Even then, a large number of the instructions and processes they use were available in the 386.

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This instruction set was introduced in the Intel 80386 microprocessor in 1985.

That should say that ADDITIONAL instructions were added with the introduction of the 386. Even the newest CPU has instructions that originated in the 8086, and 2 (if I remember correctly) that allowed an interface with the 8080's flags (SAHF and LAHF) in order to write 8080 simulators easily.

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Original post by LessBread The manual doesn't explicitly mention 386 or 486 opting instead to reference these using the vague wording "most recent".

It also doesn't try to itemize all IA32 architectures.

edit: In fact, chapter 2.1 BRIEF HISTORY OF THE IA-32 ARCHITECTURE mentions Intel CPUs as old as the 8086. It's not quite clear where they draw the IA32 line though (Statements like "The Intel 286 processor introduced protected mode operation into the IA-32 architecture." are rather confusing).

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It doesn't totally fail to support the point as it omits any reference to 386 or 486 chips. It would seem that Intel thinks those processors are no longer even worth mentioning.

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However, in practical terms, the 386 and 486 are hardly worth the mention. [grin]

However, in historical (read: nostalgic) terms, they are [WINK].

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Original post by LessBread Quote: Original post by Sneftel Quote: Original post by LessBread That's a lame apology for nitpicking. Actually, his phrasing wasn't really an apology, but rather a statement of intent. I interpretted it as a mealy mouthed admission of nitpicking.

Indeed. I was meta-nitpicking, for funsies.

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Original post by samv Quote: Original post by LessBread The manual doesn't explicitly mention 386 or 486 opting instead to reference these using the vague wording "most recent". It also doesn't try to itemize all IA32 architectures. edit: In fact, chapter 2.1 BRIEF HISTORY OF THE IA-32 ARCHITECTURE mentions Intel CPUs as old as the 8086. It's not quite clear where they draw the IA32 line though (Statements like "The Intel 286 processor introduced protected mode operation into the IA-32 architecture." are rather confusing).

You're taking my statement out of context. My comment pertained to the passage that you quoted and not to the entire manual. It seems to me that the term "IA-32" emerged from Intel's marketing department. It doesn't make sense to me to refer to a 16 bit cpu as an IA32, so I would say that IA32 began with 386. Looking at the copyrights on the manual, I would guess that the term IA32 went into use in 1997.

My 486 manual has a copyright of 1992 (it could of course have been written earlier) and mentions nothing of IA-32.

What your manual may mean is that the 286 was the basis for the IA-32 protected mode, even though you could go into PM on the 286 through software, you couldnt go back to real mode without resetting the CPU. This was one of the major things the 386 fixed.

On a strange sidenote however, I did download a manual from Intel's old dev site for the 186 and it refered to that CPU as IA-32. Really wierd and doesn't make any sense. The only thing I can think they meant was that the CPU used the basic IA-32 instructions, which should have been "IA-16" though. I better stop before I cinfuse myself.

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Original post by LessBread It seems to me that the term "IA-32" emerged from Intel's marketing department. It doesn't make sense to me to refer to a 16 bit cpu as an IA32, so I would say that IA32 began with 386. Looking at the copyrights on the manual, I would guess that the term IA32 went into use in 1997.

That would make sense. Retroactively inventing terms, and then consecutively blurring their usage sounds a lot like marketing [SMILE].

I tried to find the oldest message mentioning IA-32 on Google groups. It's dated 29 Feb. 1996, so your guess (interpreted as "some years after the Pentium was introduced") is probably quite close to the truth.

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Original post by samv That would make sense. Retroactively inventing terms, and then consecutively blurring their usage sounds a lot like marketing [SMILE].

Yeah, that's pretty much it. To begin with, they didn't mind calling it x86 because of its roots in the 8086 architecture (and then 286 and 386)

Another reason for the change might have been that they started planning Itanium, or IA64. Guess they wanted some kind of scheme that made both "their" architectures share the same naming convention.