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Jerk on the internet

Started by Vanke Nov 18, 2005 at 11:43 AM 224 replies 34.5k views

Original Post

Nov 18, 2005 at 11:43 AM

I just read this article on the web-magazine the escapist. Which I highly recommend it takes more of an intellectual approach to videogames then most game magazines/websites. I found this article to be very interesting especially since I relate so much to the author. I as well was a tker in counterstrike in fact it was the only part of the game that i actually enjoyed. I didn't like the cheaters that were rampant on the game (I haven't played CS in forever so i'm unsure if they still are as prolific as they used to be.) I couldn't stand the juvenile attitude that most of the people who played had. I know in this day an age that for some people being called gay is the most horrible thing in the world, but a lot of people aren't homophobic at all and this is just a stupid attempt at insult. I derived a lot of my pleasure from making these people, these anonymous children who took the game way too seriously have a shitty time in the game. It was a lot of fun people would freak out, when the voice chat was added it brought a whole new depth to TKing I could finally hear their cries of frustation. Though I didnt last too long after voice was added i moved on to bigger and better things, and to be honest TFC was much much better then counterstrike ever was. NOw i want to know your views and opinions on this, I'm sure there are a few of the "Take this game too seriously" type of people on here, what is your pov on the whole Griefing topic. Why do you take these games so damn seriously, especially when that is all they are games. They are computer simulations of fictional events yet you invest so much of yourself into them. Also I don't want to limit this to just CS so feel free to go off on other games.

AndreTheGiant

Nov 18, 2005 at 11:50 AM

I work a lot, and live alone so its a lot of work to just survive. I have little free time. Counterstrike is an amazingly realistic game and I really enjoy playing it and working with my teammates to accomplish the goals. When I actually have time to sit down and play it, I dont want some dumbass kid ruining it for me and the rest of the team. Im sure you are right, Im sure its tons of fun to ruin everyone elses game, and I bet it makes it much funnier for you when you can hear everyone swearing at you. I dont take the game 'too seriously' but I do play it to have fun and its not fun playing with people like you.

Have you ever played paintball? Its kind of like an FPS, but real life. How would you like it if we played paintball together, and right before the match, I stomped all of your paintballs to a mushy pulp, and then accused you of taking the game too seriously?

The good thing about real life is that if someone is a dink, you can punch him in the face, instead of just call him 'gay'.

jfclavette

Nov 18, 2005 at 11:51 AM

What a remarkably stupid point of view. Seriously. I've never, ever, even witnessed a CS game, or a CS:S game. In fact, I've only seen Half-Life once. That probably makes me some kind of weirdo, but wathever.

Do some people take the game too seriously ? Maybe, I don't know. But they do play to have fun, and there's no fun whatsoever in being killed at the spawn point by a teammate.

You effectively deprive them of a fun game for the sole sake of being an asshole and feeling good about it ? Good job. Might I also suggest stealing candy from toddlers and shouting in the cinema ?

Vanke

Nov 18, 2005 at 12:00 PM

Quote:
Original post by AndreTheGiant
I work a lot, and live alone so its a lot of work to just survive. I have little free time. Counterstrike is an amazingly realistic game

Sorry i don't want to sound mean or be confrontational at all but that is one really funny statement you just made, I don't see at all how counterstrike is a realistic game at all.

Quote:

and I really enjoy playing it and working with my teammates to accomplish the goals. When I actually have time to sit down and play it, I dont want some dumbass kid ruining it for me and the rest of the team. Im sure you are right, Im sure its tons of fun to ruin everyone elses game, and I bet it makes it much funnier for you when you can hear everyone swearing at you. I dont take the game 'too seriously' but I do play it to have fun and its not fun playing with people like you.

Well I'll have to say it's not fun playing with people like you, to me it's just a game, it's made to be played however i want to, if the designers add the ability for me to shoot my team mates then you know what it's probably going to happen.

Have you ever played paintball? Its kind of like an FPS, but real life. How would you like it if we played paintball together, and right before the match, I stomped all of your paintballs to a mushy pulp, and then accused you of taking the game too seriously? [/quote]

Just so you know i'm not a stupid child haven't been one for a bit, also your comparing an FPS to paintball to me doesn't matter at all simply because to me the fact that one is played in real life and one is on a computer, to me the two do not hold equal weight at all, I also believe they never should. You see to me your realworld actions have different consequences then ones performed in a game, if I was to step on all of your paintballs I would be an asshole, I would feel guilty. I would have deprived you of something that has actual value in the realworl. If I shoot you as a team member in CS then you respawn two minutes later, you don't like it you leave. Can you not see how these two actions are fundamentally different?

Quote:

The good thing about real life is that if someone is a dink, you can punch him in the face, instead of just call him 'gay'.

capn_midnight

Nov 18, 2005 at 12:05 PM

Quote:
Original post by AndreTheGiant
Counterstrike is an amazingly realistic game.

Haha...
HAhahahahah

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Vanke

Nov 18, 2005 at 12:07 PM

Quote:
Original post by jfclavette
What a remarkably stupid point of view. Seriously. I've never, ever, even witnessed a CS game, or a CS:S game. In fact, I've only seen Half-Life once. That probably makes me some kind of weirdo, but wathever.

Do some people take the game too seriously ? Maybe, I don't know. But they do play to have fun, and there's no fun whatsoever in being killed at the spawn point by a teammate.

Really though is it ever fun to be killed in a game, sure it sucks to be killed by your teammate at the spawn point but so what that person has just as much right to play the game how they want to as you do.

Quote:

You effectively deprive them of a fun game for the sole sake of being an asshole and feeling good about it ? Good job. Might I also suggest stealing candy from toddlers and shouting in the cinema ?

Like i've said before Real world (Meatspace) and the computer (Cyberspace) are two entirely different things, I personally would never steal, would never be rude to someone else in real life, i was raised to be a gentleman and i will be for the rest of my life. (Regardless of what my girlfriend says. Just because I sometimes forget to hold the door open for you honey does not make me an asshole. Also sorry for letting it hit you that one time.)

However when it comes to cyberspace the rules all change, i'm not going to do anything illegal however i will do whatever is allowed in the setting that i find myself. Be that game website whatever. I'm not harming anyone in any way besides causing them a little frustration.

Also I could make a comment on you saying i depreive them of a fun game for the sole sake of being an ahole, well what if that makes the game fun for me, why are your wants more important then my wants?

Vanke

Nov 18, 2005 at 12:08 PM

Quote:
Original post by capn_midnight
Quote:
Original post by AndreTheGiant
Counterstrike is an amazingly realistic game.
Haha...
HAhahahahah

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Now this is a post I really agree with!

Sneftel

Nov 18, 2005 at 12:18 PM

Quote:
Original post by Vanke
Just so you know i'm not a stupid child haven't been one for a bit, also your comparing an FPS to paintball to me doesn't matter at all simply because to me the fact that one is played in real life and one is on a computer, to me the two do not hold equal weight at all, I also believe they never should.

Hold up, what? Why does this matter one little bit? The point is that by being a lamer you are marginally increasing your own fun while sharply decreasing the fun of everything else. And the "paintballs have value" argument is simply equivocation. What if you were playing checkers with someone, and halfway through you swept all the pieces off the board back into the box? The reason that's not okay isn't because it's "the real world", it's because it screws the game up for the other player(s). I cannot believe that you don't understand this simple concept.

_the_phantom_

Nov 18, 2005 at 12:21 PM

Quote:
Original post by Vanke
Also I could make a comment on you saying i depreive them of a fun game for the sole sake of being an ahole, well what if that makes the game fun for me, why are your wants more important then my wants?

and why are your rights more important than those who want to play the game as it was designed to be played?

and no, just because you can shoot your team mates it doesnt mean the game was designed to let you kill your team mates, the idea was to add some level of realism and prevent people from just going gun-hoe around the level shooting anything that moves, instead requiring them to play as a team.

xanin

Nov 18, 2005 at 12:25 PM

Quote:
Original post by Sneftel
Quote:
Original post by Vanke
Just so you know i'm not a stupid child haven't been one for a bit, also your comparing an FPS to paintball to me doesn't matter at all simply because to me the fact that one is played in real life and one is on a computer, to me the two do not hold equal weight at all, I also believe they never should.
Hold up, what? Why does this matter one little bit? The point is that by being a lamer you are marginally increasing your own fun while sharply decreasing the fun of everything else. And the "paintballs have value" argument is simply equivocation. What if you were playing checkers with someone, and halfway through you swept all the pieces off the board back into the box? The reason that's not okay isn't because it's "the real world", it's because it screws the game up for the other player(s). I cannot believe that you don't understand this simple concept.

Quoted for truth.

Sneftel

Nov 18, 2005 at 12:28 PM

Oh, and one other point. I'd be willing to bet that your opponent in checkers would be pissed at you, even if he wasn't "taking the game too seriously". Even if he were just playing it for fun. Sure, he'd be more pissed if there were money riding on it or something, but the fact that he's investing 15-20 minutes of his time generally would indicate that he wants to derive _some_ fun from it, and expects that fun to come from the strategy behind the game. So it isn't a matter of taking things too seriously, either.

Vanke

Nov 18, 2005 at 12:28 PM

Quote:
Original post by Sneftel

Quote:
Original post by Vanke
Just so you know i'm not a stupid child haven't been one for a bit, also your comparing an FPS to paintball to me doesn't matter at all simply because to me the fact that one is played in real life and one is on a computer, to me the two do not hold equal weight at all, I also believe they never should.

Hold up, what? Why does this matter one little bit?

It matters because it's the way I view video games, as do a lot of other people as well.

The point is that by being a lamer you are marginally increasing your own fun while sharply decreasing the fun of everything else.

And the "paintballs have value" argument is simply equivocation. What if you were playing checkers with someone, and halfway through you swept all the pieces off the board back into the box?[/qoute]

I would do the same thing everytime this has ever happened to me, I chuckle and laugh that the other person became so frustrated that they couldn't finish the game.

Quote:
The reason that's not okay isn't because it's "the real world", it's because it screws the game up for the other player(s). I cannot believe that you don't understand this simple concept.

I understand very well you view the video game as more then it is you put more or equal weight towards this virtual world as you do the real world. I don't I see it as what it is a virtual world where you are constrained by certain rules, you can follow the pattern of play that is designated by the creators of this virtual world or you can follow your own pattern of play. I was following my own pattern of play.

[Edited by - Vanke on November 18, 2005 12:28:16 PM]

Enigma

Nov 18, 2005 at 12:30 PM

Quote:
Original post by Vanke
...if I was to step on all of your paintballs I would be an asshole, I would feel guilty. I would have deprived you of something that has actual value in the realworl. If I shoot you as a team member in CS then you respawn two minutes later, you don't like it you leave...

Time is one of the most valuable commodities in the world. Leisure time even more so.

Enigma

Sneftel

Nov 18, 2005 at 12:31 PM

Quote:
Original post by Vanke
I understand very well you view the video game as more then it is you put more or equal weight towards this virtual world as you do the real world. I don't I see it as what it is a virtual world where you are constrained by certain rules, you can follow the pattern of play that is designated by the creators of this virtual world or you can follow your own pattern of play. I was following my own pattern of play.

You're still not getting it. Differentiate between "game" and "simulation". TFC (what is TFC?) is a game WITHIN a simulation. The simulation is that your avatar is shooting other avatars; the game is that you're trying to accomplish whatever the goal of the game is. Everyone else? They came for the game, not the simulation. If that's not what you're there for, then you aren't supposed to be there, any more than you should be sitting in the middle of a football game playing hacky-sack.

Vanke

Nov 18, 2005 at 12:32 PM

Quote:
Original post by phantom
Quote:
Original post by Vanke
Also I could make a comment on you saying i depreive them of a fun game for the sole sake of being an ahole, well what if that makes the game fun for me, why are your wants more important then my wants?

and why are your rights more important than those who want to play the game as it was designed to be played?

Ahh that's the real question now isn't whose rights are more important in a video game?

To me neither persons right are more important, infact i don't believe anyone has any rights in any video game world ever, unless it's specifically built into the game then it doesn't exist.

Quote:

and no, just because you can shoot your team mates it doesnt mean the game was designed to let you kill your team mates, the idea was to add some level of realism and prevent people from just going gun-hoe around the level shooting anything that moves, instead requiring them to play as a team.

Of course the game wasn't designed to be played like that who would design a game with that specific intent; however, since the abilitiy is there to do it in the game well then dammit i'm going to do it.

acraig

Nov 18, 2005 at 12:33 PM

I guess you like to follow this theroy:

bjle

Nov 18, 2005 at 12:33 PM

I pretty much agree with Vanke. I really enjoy watching people's reactions when I do things like that in games. TKing is just one of the things to do though. Using retarded/strange (yet possibly effective) strategies in an RTS, grabbing all the weapons and items in UT while never shooting, randomly never killing one certain person but killing everyone else in an FPS, doing some /emote out of the blue on one person every few minutes and pretending not to notice in an MMO, the list goes on.

Some of these might decrease others' fun, some might increase it. In either case, its fun and can be funny as hell [grin]

Kalidor

Nov 18, 2005 at 12:34 PM

Quote:
Original post by Vanke
You see to me your realworld actions have different consequences then ones performed in a game, if I was to step on all of your paintballs I would be an asshole, I would feel guilty. I would have deprived you of something that has actual value in the realworl.

Funny, I was always under the impression that time is your most valuable resource.

Quote:
Original post by Vanke
If I shoot you as a team member in CS then you respawn two minutes later, you don't like it you leave.

No... you lose the amount of time for all the rounds that you kill someone and the amount of time it takes to find another decent server^[1]. It's also very frustrating.

Quote:
Original post by Vanke
Can you not see how these two actions are fundamentally different?

Can you not see the similarities between them despite their differences?

[1] t<sub>lost</sub> = sum(r<sub>i</sub>t<sub>ri</sub>) + t<sub>s</sub>where t<sub>lost</sub> is the total amount of time lost      r<sub>i</sub> is the i<sup>th</sup> round you killed the person in      t<sub>ri</sub> is the amount of time left in the i<sup>th</sup> round after you killed the person      t<sub>s</sub> is the time it takes to find another server.

EDIT: Fixed my equation

acraig

Nov 18, 2005 at 12:36 PM

Quote:
Original post by bjle
I pretty much agree with Vanke. I really enjoy watching people's reactions when I do things like that in games. TKing is just one of the things to do though. Using retarded/strange (yet possibly effective) strategies in an RTS, grabbing all the weapons and items in UT while never shooting, randomly never killing one certain person but killing everyone else in an FPS, doing some /emote out of the blue on one person every few minutes and pretending not to notice in an MMO, the list goes on.

Some of these might decrease others' fun, some might increase it. In either case, its fun and can be funny as hell [grin]

Yes, because your entertainment is much more important than everybody elses...

Vanke

Nov 18, 2005 at 12:38 PM

Quote:
Original post by Sneftel
Quote:
Original post by Vanke
I understand very well you view the video game as more then it is you put more or equal weight towards this virtual world as you do the real world. I don't I see it as what it is a virtual world where you are constrained by certain rules, you can follow the pattern of play that is designated by the creators of this virtual world or you can follow your own pattern of play. I was following my own pattern of play.

You're still not getting it. Differentiate between "game" and "simulation". TFC (what is TFC?) is a game WITHIN a simulation. The simulation is that your avatar is shooting other avatars; the game is that you're trying to accomplish whatever the goal of the game is. Everyone else? They came for the game, not the simulation. If that's not what you're there for, then you aren't supposed to be there, any more than you should be sitting in the middle of a football game playing hacky-sack.

No no i am getting it, i get it 100 percent. Your not getting me I do not and will not ever ever ever be able to give both the real world and the virtual world equal weight ever sorry.

Also you can't really say i'm not supposed to be there I paid money for the game I have as much right as everyone else who wants to play the game according to how the game was designed.

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