What makes MMORPGs difficult

Networking, preventing cheating, eliminating online lag, developing enough content to keep players busy.

The sheer scale of the work involved to create the content i.e. models, textures, sounds takes 1000's of man hours. If you have say 20 people on your team and they each earn $50,000 a year and the project takes say 2 years to complete thats 2 million dollars.

You will also be wanting to have lots of people play on the servers so you'll want to buy the best you can afford. These cost money to buy, then you need accomodation for the servers and support staff to maintain them.

Basically, MMORPGs are Massive, (hmm), and so involve a lot of work. That work costs money.

What if someone wanted to make a massively multiplayer online game that didn't require a lot of content (just as much as a regular game)? Would that be much more difficult?

-- Scipio3

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Original post by Scipio3 What if someone wanted to make a massively multiplayer online game that didn't require a lot of content (just as much as a regular game)? Would that be much more difficult? -- Scipio3

That would be easy.
Of course, no one would play such a game.

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Original post by Scipio3 What makes MMORPGs so difficult and expensive to make?

The first M.

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Original post by Scipio3 What if someone wanted to make a massively multiplayer online game that didn't require a lot of content (just as much as a regular game)? Would that be much more difficult? -- Scipio3

That would still be difficult - the only part you are leaving away would be stories/events? You would still have to manage network connections, zones, the players... everything.

And it would still be expensive: you would have to own several servers to make sure you can support enough players (to call it MASSIVE online multiplayer game ;). Bandwidth cost money.

Taking away content would seem a bit strange move on making a MMO game.

I wrote a brief post about MMO game making, it could be of some use. It shows couple of ready-made solutions which you could use for making your own MMO game.
http://www.gameproducer.net/2006/01/02/creating-your-very-own-massively-multiplayer-online-role-playing-game/

The game I'm thinking about making would not be an RPG. I was thinking of making a game taking place within spaceships, with battles being an important element (PvE and PvP). While it would have a lot of content (a large universe to explore), the way I'm thinking of making the game it won't require a lot of different graphics. This is why content might not be as much of an issue as with an online RPG driven primarily by content instead of gameplay (new monsters, new weapons, new clothes, etc). World war II online is an example of a massively multiplayer online game that depends on PvP, doesn't have monsters, has only a few weapons and vehicles, etc (another example would be air warrior, tribes would be another). This is the kind of online game I would want to make. Playing the game would mainly be about getting from point A to point B safely, with the way being hindered by pirates and solar weather patterns; winning wars against AI and players; completing missions to get points to increase your power; etc.

I'm really not sure whether to make the game massively multiplayer or not. The thing about multiplayer is that it allows people to get together as a crew. The ships in my game would work best with a crew on-board. I also have ideas about having players in different empires compete with each other in virtual wars. This is one thing I liked about world war II online. Also, you would always have your ship in a large environment inhabited by other players.

I liked games like air warrior and world war II online for their massively multiplayer elements, but whether or not my game would benefit from being massively multiplayer is still something I'm thinking about.


-- scipio3

The nice thing with a space setting is you can use procedural generation - look as Ysaneya's journal. Content in the terms of terrain is not an issue, although the generation code itself is complex to balance. You're left with character/ship design and stat balancing on items, not a small task in itself.

Another issue is going to be in managing space zones with regard to server load, and this can be a real minefield. There are a lot of threads about this kind of thing. Read around and see how the concepts discussed and your design goals can be adapted.

Those articles written about how expensive MMORPGs are to make and how you'll never make one as a bedroom programmer are a complete load of crap, written by people who don't want you to have a slice of the market. Just go ahead and make your game. Don't listen to the naysayers. Just don't get carried away with features at the expense of completing it. You can always add more content later.

Runescape anyone? ;)
Runescape was created by aprox. 3 people: programmer, artist, quest-developer.
It was a simple game, 3d landscape with 2d texture for people, monsters and items, but still fun! Within one year they had 4k players.
Now 4 years later... Runescape has about 100k players and has grown into fully 3d, with a lot of people working on the contents, customer support, etc.

So it is possible to start small and grow into something big.

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Original post by SteveTaylor Those articles written about how expensive MMORPGs are to make and how you'll never make one as a bedroom programmer are a complete load of crap, written by people who don't want you to have a slice of the market. Just go ahead and make your game. Don't listen to the naysayers. Just don't get carried away with features at the expense of completing it. You can always add more content later.

Id say its more from people who have tried doing it, put over a year into the game and still had very little. The problem is there is so much people dont take into account. Balancing is the main thing. everything from gameplay, the races, to economy, the structure of difficulty, etc. This has nothing to do with the networking code, modeling, texturing, testing, graphics coding, and so forth.

I try to tell people to start small, then work up. But do not expect to make the next WoW. Goodluck on your try though.

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Original post by PolycountProductions I wrote a brief post about MMO game making, it could be of some use. It shows couple of ready-made solutions which you could use for making your own MMO game. http://www.gameproducer.net/2006/01/02/creating-your-very-own-massively-multiplayer-online-role-playing-game/

That post is innacurate.
There are many indie MMOs out there (Runescape, Tibia, Eternal Lands (which even if it is Beta is pretty playable and has a decent playerbase), and various other MMOs that I forgot about. Just go to www.mmorpg.com and look in their MMos list, a lot of them are made by indies.

I guess it really depends on what type of MMO you want to make. Everytime I see that a new programmer wants to create a MMO I always imagine that they want to build a WOW type of game.

Obviously if someone was going to make a smaller 2d MMO, then that would be easier and cheaper than a 3d MMO.

If you really want to create and build your own MMORPG, then I say go for it. But you will learn along the way why so many of us suggest you start with a smaller game and gradually build up.

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Original post by Scipio3 I'm really not sure whether to make the game massively multiplayer or not. The thing about multiplayer is that it allows people to get together as a crew. The ships in my game would work best with a crew on-board. I also have ideas about having players in different empires compete with each other in virtual wars. This is one thing I liked about world war II online. Also, you would always have your ship in a large environment inhabited by other players.

Very nice idea. I understand your concern about whether it should be Massive or not. It's a tough decision to make - but I would say that if you haven't published a game before and don't have experience on MMO games then I would recommend keeping it simpler.

Maybe the crew could work together against AI? I'm sure it could be easier to create a network game (of <100 players) where they could work as a team? And if there were like 5 crew members per ship, you still could get 5-10 ships (25-50 players) to match against each other - while trying to survive.

This way you wouldn't (necessarily) need a server for your game world, you could let players to host their own games and battle against each other & survive together.

One thing ive allways thought of (but dont have the know how to pull it off) would be some sort of MMORPG engine

Much like the muds of old, you could download a fully playable MUD and then modify the code and have a simple interface for "Gods" to create new content (zones, etc).

Sure, it was all text based. But whats to stop the same thing working with a 3D engine, much like them "second life" games.

You might only be limited to, point and click and walk around and stab things (ie no space stuff etc) But have it so Trusted players can create models with simple tools or converters etc.

Sounds a bit complex but what im trying to say, that a frame work where the game is 90% done, its just the content that needs to be made. Quests, bumpmapped terain. Generic models for different equipment (with the possibility of expanding)

Even an ingame interface where they could load up a zone, walk around it like you would in game and directly manipulate objects (move trees etc) like garrys mod for HL2.

Someone would have to make the frame work though, just an idea. Tis alot of work, but it would allow for lots of little MMORPG comunities etc much like the MUD's of old. And quite possibly a large variation of playable games, but released under the open source guise such that no one can legally profit, and there would be a good modder comunity and they can give back to the frame work

But like i said, would be alot of work and im too lazy, just throwing out the idea with the skills/determination to pull something off :P

Phill

EDIT: oh and rather than being "Massively" i would think maybe have support for ~100 users a server, but a persistent world. Will make for a tighter knight gaming comunity (seriously, how many people do you actually interact with on a MMORPG, its so easy to get lost in the crowds) but also make network issues, and server issues easier to manage.

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Original post by Raduprv Quote: Original post by PolycountProductions I wrote a brief post about MMO game making, it could be of some use. It shows couple of ready-made solutions which you could use for making your own MMO game. http://www.gameproducer.net/2006/01/02/creating-your-very-own-massively-multiplayer-online-role-playing-game/ That post is innacurate. There are many indie MMOs out there (Runescape, Tibia, Eternal Lands (which even if it is Beta is pretty playable and has a decent playerbase), and various other MMOs that I forgot about. Just go to www.mmorpg.com and look in their MMos list, a lot of them are made by indies.

This is bit off-topic to this thread, but I have to comment:

@Raduprv:

Tibia = top servers had (at the time of writing) about 300 players on one server. I don't consider this to be MASSIVE.

Eternal lands had 208 players on server (at the time of writing) - and as you said it's beta.

Runescape is a played via browser - so it's a matter of opinion to call it MMORPG. I know it's popular, I don't know if it's massively multiplayer online game. If that would be the case - then I guess MUDs could be called MMO games as well? It's a bit difficult to determine - if you accept browser based games into this category (well, they are in the sub-category at least) then we would need to check out the player number. Runescape didn't give server specific numbers, so that cannot be checked.

This is purely my opinion - but making a multiplayer game and calling it massive without players is a bit misleading. If you check mmorpg.com you'll see Eternal Lands, Guild wars, WoW in the top. There might be indies who have really done some games, but I haven't seen one yet.

No meaning to be harsh, but the standards we see in MMORPGs today are hardly met in MMORPGs made by indies - the player amount to be perhaps the first reason. And this is only my opinion. And I'm willing to change it if I see more proof. So far I was told about "Dofus" ( they had million dollar budget which makes me think if there was external investor to help them - thus making them a non-indie team) and then there is "A Tale In The Desert", but I don't know if they also got external money poured into their game development. I have to check that.

Bottom line: so far I don't 100% sure know any indie made MMO game where would be more than 1000 simulatenous players in same world (server). If there is - I would be happy to hear about them, and will change my mind :)

/ END OF OFF-TOPIC

P.S. There's some more information about MMORPGs for example in here:
http://www.answers.com/topic/mmorpg

That article you linked to may have alot of information, but the correctness of the information can be debated;

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"The first graphical MMORPG was Neverwinter Nights by designer Don Daglow and programmer Cathryn Mataga, which went live on AOL in 1991 and ran through 1997. The project was personally championed and green-lighted by AOL President Steve Case, and cost $6.00 per hour to play."

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Original post by PolycountProductions Runescape is a played via browser - so it's a matter of opinion to call it MMORPG. I know it's popular, I don't know if it's massively multiplayer online game. If that would be the case - then I guess MUDs could be called MMO games as well? It's a bit difficult to determine - if you accept browser based games into this category (well, they are in the sub-category at least) then we would need to check out the player number. Runescape didn't give server specific numbers, so that cannot be checked.

I've played Runescape for years, and they keep adding new servers. Each server holds about 1000 players, and they have about 50 at the moment I think. And I would call it a mmorpg, many people want the same thing, the newbies want to kill the cows or mine the copper and tin in the easy mines, more advanced players want to mine coal and kill scorpions. It's not uncommon to have 10-15 people around coal rocks, rushing to them as soon as they recharge, only the first one to mine successfully gets a piece of coal, so if better players are around it can be frustrating. This is one of the characteristics of an MMORPG, that you are not just walking around and see other players, but that you are competing with them for scarce resources, either rocks to mine, trees to chop, objects to find or monsters to fight. When too many people are waiting for things to respawn, it forces you to go somewhere else.

My opinion is that if a game is going to be strickty PvP then the user should be able to host and join small games (small as in not massive) of a set number of players where they would then face off. This seems to be the approach with games like Tribes. You could also go for massive PvP, planetside style, but that would be a much more costly approach.