FBI Drafts Legislation To Massively Expand Domestic Internet Spying

Not only is this another step into transforming the long forgotten "Land of the Free" into the "Land of the Oppressive State", but it reeks of easy abuse by both authorised and non-authorised people.

I cannot believe, after all, all those years, america still didnt understand this simple truth: its not about security, its about NOT making people want to attack you in the first place. Something that USA has been doing actively since WWII.

The idea that the government can use fear to control the people isn't a new thing. However, what is new is the way it is being executed. Instead of being like North Korea and killing dissidents, the United States creates a world of fear in which it is believed dissidents will hurt America and get people killed by terrorists. This allows the government to quickly and easily expand its power beyond what any government should have. The United States will likely never kill people for having a different point of view: it will just create an enviroment where those people would be socially dead.

Imagine this: a world a where your friends and family no longer talk to you. People in the street turn their heads the other way. You walk alone on the streets because nobody wants to be associated with you. All of this is because you called tax cuts unwise, or some other dissident view. Your employed fires you, because nobody wants to work with you. You lose your home because your landlord will no longer speak to you. You are now homeless. People in the food kitchens turn you away. Your only friends are now the other dissidents you meet on the street, but soon they will be dead too.

Think it is too far out? Think about what has happened to people who speak out about the government story on 9/11. Think about how people like Cindy Sheehan are presented on major media outlets (especially Fox News). Have you ever heard someone say they liked Farenheit 9/11 on CNN? I haven't. Eminem was attacked because of his song 'Mosh' in 2004, but why? Because it presented a dissenting view.

Things like this aren't good for a democratic society. We have traveled too far from our founding father's views. We have become a society based on fear - in a sense we have become the people we hate. Think about how protesters of Vietnam were attacked as "communists". Then realize that such idealogies (that is, attacking the protesters by tarnishing their names) is much like the USSR. Every time we are at war against an idea, we become that idea. We are now in a war against terrorism and people who hate freedom. Suddenly our government and many out-spoken people use terror to get what they want and then try to take away our freedoms in the name of security.

I, for one, will not stand for it. I don't fear Bin Laden. I don't fear Saddam. Death is death to me, and if I do not fear crazy gun-weilding people of this country then I am not going to fear the terrorists either. I won't buy into the fear of North Korea. I won't buy into the fear of Iran. I declare myself free of any fear of any threat - for I am a human being and am capable of assessing my own risks. I can use logic. I can use my mind. I don't need the government telling me what to fear and who to fear, I will do that myself. Furthermore, I do not need the government telling me that it needs more power to fight terrorism. We fought terrorism for 224 years before 9/11 and we did just fine.

America doesn't need laws like this. We don't need illegal wiretaps. We don't need illegal wars. What we needs is a government who will follow the rules of the game, just like they are trying to force other people to do. It astounds me how Bush can one day cricize North Korea for not following international law, and then say he doesn't need to follow international laws. As if somehow the laws applied to everyone but him.

We need to protest these wars. We need to argue unconstitutional laws like this. We need to vote anyone who supports it out of office. We need to elect people who will follow the constitution and international law. We need to free ourselves from the fear the government wants us to live in. If we don't, I hate to think of what will happen. Laws like this are unneccessary, and are only useful to governments who don't trust its citizens.

[Edited by - SticksandStones on July 8, 2006 10:02:30 PM]

You know what scares me the most about this?

Quote:

Eliminate the current legal requirement saying the Justice Department must publish a public "notice of the actual number of communications interceptions" every year. That notice currently also must disclose the "maximum capacity" required to accommodate all of the legally authorized taps that government agencies will "conduct and use simultaneously."

Scares me shitless.

Quote:

Original post by nuvem You know what scares me the most about this? Quote: Eliminate the current legal requirement saying the Justice Department must publish a public "notice of the actual number of communications interceptions" every year. That notice currently also must disclose the "maximum capacity" required to accommodate all of the legally authorized taps that government agencies will "conduct and use simultaneously." Scares me shitless.

Disgusting.
I wonder how the conversation for this law will go?

"Hey, guys, you know...you know this constitution thing...we gave it a real hard try but it's just getting to be a drag."
"But...uh...it's the foundation of our entire society and legal system. Without it this Congress wouldn't even exist."
"National Security"
"I vote for it."
"Me too."
"Same here."
"Hey, should we let the Common Sense Committe vote?"
"No."
"OK, then the Aye's have it. Constitution abolished. See you guys later. I guess the military is in charge now. We know they never doing anything wrong, at least."

Mark of the Beast coming soon to a country near you.

Fellas, you know what the sad thing is? It won't be any different with the Democrats.

Welcome to the New World Order....

Let me be the not-paranoid person here and say it just looks like the FBI is trying to catch up with this new intarweb thing, for the most part it seems to be attempting to make monitoring the internet as easy as monitoring the phone system.

The primary threatening thing, I have to admit, is the limit on the release of the numbers.

You know, I'm really okay with some of that.

But other parts of it... no. When there is an expectation of privacy, the police cannot violate you without a warrant (or other extreme cases) - this is why infrared cannot be used to track the movements of people in their homes, for example. I think that private or instant messaging should be included in that category, though monitoring public internet lounges is acceptable (and already being done). There's some hazy inbetween area, but I feel that a bit of this potential law (that will certainly be rewritten and added onto and generally messed up) goes too far.

Quote:

Original post by Alpha_ProgDes Welcome to the New World Order....

[Edited by - Midnight Blue on July 9, 2006 2:48:56 AM]

i dont rember the details but here in canada i read something about harper cooking up a simaler law that would allow the goverment to spy on internet traffic

Screw the FBI. They need to keep their noses out of my business.


Hey, I'll finish writing this later - a black van just pulled up and some guy is pounding on my door and yelling something.

^^. Ya harper is out of his mind...

I agree 100% with

Quote:

Instead of being like North Korea and killing dissidents, the United States creates a world of fear in which it is believed dissidents will hurt America and get people killed by terrorists. This allows the government to quickly and easily expand its power beyond what any government should have. The United States will likely never kill people for having a different point of view: it will just create an enviroment where those people would be socially dead.

this. I think its sad, but (and not to jump on the band wagon), Bush is really doing a good job of building this fear, which I hope doesn't spread to Canada, but seeing that Harper is Bush's little gopher, one never knows...

Not to mention the Mexican election was just rigged too. I think the Pan-American Union is really gonna happen

I believe a Simpson's quote is mandatory here.

Quote:

Homer: Does this make me look fat? Lisa: No, it makes you look like a tool of government opression! Homer: But not fat?

crackers everywhere are rejoicing. if a backdoor is easy enough for the FBI to get into, it's easy enough for your average script kiddie.

Quote:

Original post by SticksandStones The idea that the government can use fear to control the people isn't a new thing. However, what is new is the way it is being executed. Instead of being like North Korea and killing dissidents, the United States creates a world of fear in which it is believed dissidents will hurt America and get people killed by terrorists. This allows the government to quickly and easily expand its power beyond what any government should have. The United States will likely never kill people for having a different point of view: it will just create an enviroment where those people would be socially dead. Imagine this: a world a where your friends and family no longer talk to you. People in the street turn their heads the other way. You walk alone on the streets because nobody wants to be associated with you. All of this is because you called tax cuts unwise, or some other dissident view. Your employed fires you, because nobody wants to work with you. You lose your home because your landlord will no longer speak to you. You are now homeless. People in the food kitchens turn you away. Your only friends are now the other dissidents you meet on the street, but soon they will be dead too. Think it is too far out? Think about what has happened to people who speak out about the government story on 9/11. Think about how people like Cindy Sheehan are presented on major media outlets (especially Fox News). Have you ever heard someone say they liked Farenheit 9/11 on CNN? I haven't. Eminem was attacked because of his song 'Mosh' in 2004, but why? Because it presented a dissenting view. Things like this aren't good for a democratic society. We have traveled too far from our founding father's views. We have become a society based on fear - in a sense we have become the people we hate. Think about how protesters of Vietnam were attacked as "communists". Then realize that such idealogies (that is, attacking the protesters by tarnishing their names) is much like the USSR. Every time we are at war against an idea, we become that idea. We are now in a war against terrorism and people who hate freedom. Suddenly our government and many out-spoken people use terror to get what they want and then try to take away our freedoms in the name of security. I, for one, will not stand for it. I don't fear Bin Laden. I don't fear Saddam. Death is death to me, and if I do not fear crazy gun-weilding people of this country then I am not going to fear the terrorists either. I won't buy into the fear of North Korea. I won't buy into the fear of Iran. I declare myself free of any fear of any threat - for I am a human being and am capable of assessing my own risks. I can use logic. I can use my mind. I don't need the government telling me what to fear and who to fear, I will do that myself. Furthermore, I do not need the government telling me that it needs more power to fight terrorism. We fought terrorism for 224 years before 9/11 and we did just fine. America doesn't need laws like this. We don't need illegal wiretaps. We don't need illegal wars. What we needs is a government who will follow the rules of the game, just like they are trying to force other people to do. It astounds me how Bush can one day cricize North Korea for not following international law, and then say he doesn't need to follow international laws. As if somehow the laws applied to everyone but him. We need to protest these wars. We need to argue unconstitutional laws like this. We need to vote anyone who supports it out of office. We need to elect people who will follow the constitution and international law. We need to free ourselves from the fear the government wants us to live in. If we don't, I hate to think of what will happen. Laws like this are unneccessary, and are only useful to governments who don't trust its citizens.

It's McCarthyism for the 21 century.

Besides, 224 years ago we were the traitors, terrorists and dissidents. This 4th of July made me sick with the display of "patriotism"... Patriotism my ass... We have become what we rebelled against. As far as I'm concerned, the government is giving what the people want: the illusion of saftey, which the masses value more than thier liberty.

Not that i'm saying I believe there ever was this utopian past where everything was perfect. However, I do believe that a painful few people still truely believe in the ideals that United States was founded upon, and even fewer are really trying to make the United States more like those ideals.

I would put myself in the category of the people too apethetic to try.

Historys ultimate lesson: Nothing lasts forever.

Quote:

Original post by LessBread Will this make us safer?

Yes. Unless the government is out to get you.

Quote:

Will it make us less free?

Yes. And you probably won't even notice it, unless the government is out to get you.

shmoove

Quote:

Original post by Arild Fines ..pic..

trying to tell something there, arlid? [smile]