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IP ADDRESSES

Started by flying12 Jul 12, 2006 at 9:44 AM 35 replies 3.1k views

Original Post

Jul 12, 2006 at 9:44 AM

Hi. I am dealing with persons and IP addresses I have the following questions: (1) If someone knows your IP address and they are a good computer programmer, can your IP address be "inserted" and make it look like it is you sending an email or making a posting on the internet? Effectively making it look like you are arguing with yourself? For example... If a bulletin board knows your ip address, then gives it to someone, can they put that ip address into their computer and then go onto a website with your IP Address and make it look like you were there? (2) If a computer programmer has the following information and skills what could they potentially do to someone who isn't a programmer: * Know your ip address * Have a private investigator that is a good friend * Work for large ISP service companies that I am a customer of * Knows my employers * Knows my license plate number * Is part of a community of over 4000 programmers * Works for Electronic Arts * Uses IP addresses in emails that cannot be traced back to the person's computer * Has access to your website's database particularly your forum's ip address list * What could someone potentially do with this information?

Luckless

Jul 12, 2006 at 9:48 AM

Ah, didn't we have this same thread a few weeks ago? the exact same questions basically?

in short, not really.

benryves

Jul 12, 2006 at 9:49 AM

You've already asked this.

Theoretically, yes, for point 1. In practise, there are a lot of things controlling how the IP address is assigned, depending on how the machines are set up.

Ravuya

Jul 12, 2006 at 9:53 AM

#1 is pretty unlikely. I think most routers these days have anti-spoofing protection, so somewhere along the line the spoof attempt should be squashed. Forging an email is pretty easy, though the mailserver you're connected to might decide to reject your forged X-Originating-IP header.

Tiffany_Smith

Jul 12, 2006 at 10:23 AM

Quote:
Original post by flying12
(2) If a computer programmer has the following information and skills what could they potentially do to someone who isn't a programmer:
* Know your ip address
* Have a private investigator that is a good friend
* Work for large ISP service companies that I am a customer of
* Knows my employers
* Knows my license plate number
* Is part of a community of over 4000 programmers
* Works for Electronic Arts
* Uses IP addresses in emails that cannot be traced back to the person's computer
* Has access to your website's database particularly your forum's ip address list
* What could someone potentially do with this information?

They could potentially do a lot of damage if they were motivated enough. If they were that way inclined then they could easily find out your home address (which opens up a whole other world of problems), steal your identity (again, problems), infect your system with viruses and spyware (more problems) and as far as I'm concerned, yes, they could quite easily impersonate you, using your IP, on a message board.

A motivated person with that type of info could cause problems for you at work and at home. Any of those actions are against the law and I would suggest reporting any behavior like that if you come across it.

cloudscapes

Jul 12, 2006 at 10:26 AM

And you can usually find out if an email if forged or not just by opening up the mail headers. Lots of useful information there that potentially anyone can see (it doesn't require "programming skills" to see it).

#1 is pretty unlikely, if not impossible, if you ask me. You'd need a tremendous amount of control of the other person router and/or ISP, if I'm not mistaken. The ISP gives the router its IP, so you'd somehow need to doctor the IP information as it "goes out" from the ISP.

Unless I'm completelly mistaken and on crack....

Ravuya

Jul 12, 2006 at 10:26 AM

I'd be more worried about knowing a private investigator and the license plate number; it's possible you could run licensing searches (I believe via FOIA in Canada) and get addresses and phone numbers.

If you're worried about this, seek legal counsel or potentially phone the police/RCMP and ask them about it.

Tiffany_Smith

Jul 12, 2006 at 10:34 AM

Quote:
Original post by cloudscapes
#1 is pretty unlikely, if not impossible, if you ask me. You'd need a tremendous amount of control of the other person router and/or ISP, if I'm not mistaken. The ISP gives the router its IP, so you'd somehow need to doctor the IP information as it "goes out" from the ISP.

Unless I'm completelly mistaken and on crack....

You wouldn't even need access to the persons router or ISP. The malicious person/s already theoretically knows the IP.

Ravuya

Jul 12, 2006 at 10:44 AM

Quote:
Original post by Tiffany_Smith
You wouldn't even need access to the persons router or ISP. The malicious person/s already theoretically knows the IP.

No, I think he was meaning that's what the malicious person would need to do (IP spoofing) although his understanding of it is a tad hardware-centric from what I can remember of the olden days.

flying12

Jul 12, 2006 at 10:49 AM

Quote:
Original post by cloudscapes
And you can usually find out if an email if forged or not just by opening up the mail headers. Lots of useful information there that potentially anyone can see (it doesn't require "programming skills" to see it).

#1 is pretty unlikely, if not impossible, if you ask me. You'd need a tremendous amount of control of the other person router and/or ISP, if I'm not mistaken. The ISP gives the router its IP, so you'd somehow need to doctor the IP information as it "goes out" from the ISP.

Unless I'm completelly mistaken and on crack....

Okay, but it is the bulletin boards I am talking about. I have already checked out the person's ip address in my email and the ip address has no information on it when I do a search on it. Kind of like the proxy thing.

I am referring to the bulletin boards. Let's say that on this site, if the moderators wanted to (not saying this is happening here) give out someone's IP address and someone could put that into their computer. That is what I am referring to not the emails.

flying12

Jul 12, 2006 at 10:53 AM

Quote:
Original post by Ravuya
Quote:
Original post by Tiffany_Smith
You wouldn't even need access to the persons router or ISP. The malicious person/s already theoretically knows the IP.

No, I think he was meaning that's what the malicious person would need to do (IP spoofing) although his understanding of it is a tad hardware-centric from what I can remember of the olden days.

Okay, so even though it can be very hard what if it someone knew that you had information of what they did to you when you were their client and have exposed them and begun legal challenge against them. If that information went public in order to protect your own reputation and potentially prison time, how motivated would someone be to do that to protect themselves from themselves?

What I want to know, is COULD who knows the information I posted do this. Especially if they work for the two largest ISP service providers in Western Canada (Tel-s and Sh-w) both of which I was a customer of and still use to access the internet from to view websites that I could be tracked with when I access them.

Ravuya

Jul 12, 2006 at 11:00 AM

Quote:
Original post by flying12
What I want to know, is COULD who knows the information I posted do this. Especially if they work for the two largest ISP service providers in Western Canada (Tel-s and Sh-w) both of which I was a customer of and still use to access the internet from to view websites that I could be tracked with when I access them.

This is blatantly illegal under recent ISP privacy laws in Canada; if you believe this may be occurring you should notify the privacy commissioner immediately and have them investigate it.

smart_idiot

Jul 12, 2006 at 11:06 AM

For 1; using a TCP/IP connection (which http and email use) forging their IP address isn't likely, since initiating the connection requires two way communication, and if you forge their IP address, you aren't going to be getting their packets back. You might be able guess what they would have replied with, and blindly keep sending data using what you assumed they sent, but I don't know how feasable that would be; I believe the response includes a new port number to continue communicating on; guessing that would be difficult.

Spoofing UDP is more likely, but again, you won't be able to recieve any of the responses. If they're already communicating with something, there's no reason you can't send your own packets to mess with them. It'll take a few tries to find the port they're using, but once you find it, you can send your own packets on their behalf, like telling the server they've just quit for example.

Of course, if anyone has access to the routers between you and the destination, pretending to be you becomes much more easy. If your ISP is out to get you, there isn't a whole lot you can do to stop them, besides get the law involved of course.

flying12

Jul 12, 2006 at 11:08 AM

Quote:
Original post by Ravuya
Quote:
Original post by flying12
What I want to know, is COULD who knows the information I posted do this. Especially if they work for the two largest ISP service providers in Western Canada (Tel-s and Sh-w) both of which I was a customer of and still use to access the internet from to view websites that I could be tracked with when I access them.

This is blatantly illegal under recent ISP privacy laws in Canada; if you believe this may be occurring you should notify the privacy commissioner immediately and have them investigate it.

Yeah I know about the privacy laws. the problem and damage are already done. The website was actually allowing it to happen and gain more attention to itself. They modified one of the posts so that it appeared at the top of the yahoo search engine requesting the community provide them my personal address to contact me.

Even though it is illegal and I contacted the police department in state it was happening in, the police would not look into it because it would only be considered a misdeamenor there.

Becuase I am a Canadian and the site is in the States, I fall into an international loophole.

What COULD someone do with the information that I posted for start of this thread if they were of the character to do that? Could they do things that could cause me serious trouble?

Tiffany_Smith

Jul 12, 2006 at 11:08 AM

Quote:
Original post by flying12
Okay, so even though it can be very hard what if it someone knew that you had information of what they did to you when you were their client and have exposed them and begun legal challenge against them. If that information went public in order to protect your own reputation and potentially prison time, how motivated would someone be to do that to protect themselves from themselves?

Depends on the individual. It wouldn't be all that hard in my opinion (just time consuming) and they wouldn't even need access to any ISP servers to do it.

Quote:
Original post by flying12
What I want to know, is COULD who knows the information I posted do this.

In my opinion, absolutely they could, without a doubt! But it seems like other people here disagree and a lot of people on these boards know way more than I do.

Quote:
Original post by flying12
What COULD someone do with the information that I posted for start of this thread if they were of the character to do that?

They could impersonate you, steal your identity, find out personal info and mess with your system.

Quote:
Original post by flying12
Could they do things that could cause me serious trouble?

Yes.

flying12

Jul 12, 2006 at 11:10 AM

Quote:
Original post by smart_idiot
For 1; using a TCP/IP connection (which http and email use) forging their IP address isn't likely, since initiating the connection requires two way communication, and if you forge their IP address, you aren't going to be getting their packets back. You might be able guess what they would have replied with, and blindly keep sending data using what you assumed they sent, but I don't know how feasable that would be; I believe the response includes a new port number to continue communicating on; guessing that would be difficult.

Spoofing UDP is more likely, but again, you won't be able to recieve any of the responses. If they're already communicating with something, there's no reason you can't send your own packets to mess with them. It'll take a few tries to find the port they're using, but once you find it, you can send your own packets on their behalf, like telling the server they've just quit for example.

What if a bulletin board community one that has a history of disclosing IP addresses of its users? So there is NO WAY someone who knows your IP address could do ANYTHING to harm you? Such as making posts on a BB like it was you posting? Even if they worked for the ISP services providers?

capn_midnight

Jul 12, 2006 at 11:12 AM

Step 1: Storm the Principality of Sealand.
Step 2: Kick the one occupant out. Be nice, give him a raft.
Step 3: Use their massive server farm for good or for awesome.

flying12

Jul 12, 2006 at 11:14 AM

Quote:
Original post by capn_midnight
Step 1: Storm the Principality of Sealand.
Step 2: Kick the one occupant out. Be nice, give him a raft.
Step 3: Use their massive server farm for good or for awesome.

Okay... whatever that means.

Ravuya

Jul 12, 2006 at 11:18 AM

Quote:
Original post by flying12
What if a bulletin board community one that has a history of disclosing IP addresses of its users? So there is NO WAY someone who knows your IP address could do ANYTHING to harm you? Such as making posts on a BB like it was you posting? Even if they worked for the ISP services providers?

It's entirely possible that someone could attack your computer directly if you are running any exploitable services. It'd also be possible to DDOS it but this is pretty unlikely.

If the person works for the ISP, they can probably just give their machine your IP (since your IP comes from the ISP) and use it from there, but it depends on their position within the ISP. Clearly a level one support tech won't have access to DHCP servers and routing tables. Client-side spoofing attacks are unlikely to succeed thanks to the wads of anti-spoof protections bolted onto modern network equipment.

Again, I'd be more worried about the private investigator and the license plate. I don't think I'm any kind of detective (I can barely detect light in the morning) and even I know how to get phone numbers from a license plate with enough work and social engineering. Call the RCMP and ask their advice.

If you're worried about fake posts being made with your IP (even though your account wouldn't be accessible to them unless they had your username/password) then contact the message board operator and let them know ahead of time. What board is it, anyway?

flying12

Jul 12, 2006 at 11:22 AM

Quote:
Original post by Ravuya
Quote:
Original post by flying12
What if a bulletin board community one that has a history of disclosing IP addresses of its users? So there is NO WAY someone who knows your IP address could do ANYTHING to harm you? Such as making posts on a BB like it was you posting? Even if they worked for the ISP services providers?

It's entirely possible that someone could attack your computer directly if you are running any exploitable services. It'd also be possible to DDOS it but this is pretty unlikely.

If the person works for the ISP, they can probably just give their machine your IP (since your IP comes from the ISP) and use it from there, but it depends on their position within the ISP. Clearly a level one support tech won't have access to DHCP servers and routing tables. Client-side spoofing attacks are unlikely to succeed thanks to the wads of anti-spoof protections bolted onto modern network equipment.

Again, I'd be more worried about the private investigator and the license plate. I don't think I'm any kind of detective (I can barely detect light in the morning) and even I know how to get phone numbers from a license plate with enough work and social engineering. Call the RCMP and ask their advice.

If you're worried about fake posts being made with your IP (even though your account wouldn't be accessible to them unless they had your username/password) then contact the message board operator and let them know ahead of time. What board is it, anyway?

The board is the one that is allowing this to happen. I don't want to give the board out here mainly out of fear that their moderators will contact this website's moderators and then collect more IP addresses and cause me more trouble all over again.

No, I mean randomly making other posts but conecting them with my ip address or using my ip address to make it look like I am talking with myself. They have their own server so they can basically do whatever they want to with it.

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