"Randomized" Games

A perfect example of a game that already does this is Diablo and Diable 2 :)

Diablo 2 did this if I recall correctly. Procedural generation of content is an interest of mine, but it's tough to go from generating acceptable content, to generating fun content. I think that's always going to need a fair amount of human input. If you're randomly generating with a whole bunch of parameters and constraints, there's only so much random in your generation :).

edit: beaten!

For more information on what the AP was referring to, here's a link to some articles concerning roguelike map generation. While roguelikes generally don't have the fancy graphics of the games you reference (graphics are done through ascii characters), the principle is the same. Diablo and Diablo 2 are both heavily inspired by the roguelike genre.

Roguelike Map Articles

Quote:

Original post by robert4818 A challenge: Basic: I would like to see the original Zelda re-designed with a randomized overworld/dungeons. Everything else (items shops etc) should remain the same. But the worlds and dungeons should be different. Advanced: Take Zelda ALTP and do the same concept, only find a way to include randomly generated puzzles for the dungeons. Hard: Final Fantasy III This can be very hard since the game is defined alot by its over-world. Master: Oblivion This may be easier than Final Fantasy, but is included here for the 3d concept. The concept is to re-create the games, but to have the worlds themselves randomized in a logical way.

That's a pretty accurate description of the games I'd like to make starting next year. Well, except for the Oblivion step; I think I'd stop with randomised Final Fantasy [grin].

If you are interested in the basics, then certainly search on the rogue-like games for tips on how to construct randomised maps. If you're interested in a bit more of the huge challenges for the later stages, there were a few threads a while back about automated and interactive storytelling that you'll also need (I started one of them about a year or so ago).

There was a thread awhile back about self-creating story engines that created dynamic content. One of the links I posted was an article by the designer of one of the best roque-likes, GearHead.

In my current project, Im separating quests (story-driven adventuring) from missions (action-driven adventuring). I would like for our missions to be based on elements that could be recombined on the fly over and over, but still be fresh.

I really think it depends on the sheer number of categories and options that you pull from.

Here's what Ive come up with...please add more if you can think of any:

Enemies
# of enemies
spawn location
difficulty
weapons
weaknesses

Objectives
# of objectives
placement
difficulty
skills required

Dangers/Obstacles
Bombs
Traps fall, locked in
Pits
Locks

Rewards
amt of money
weapons
ammo
wearables
information
faction changes

Location
Starting location
Other locations involved

Faction Involvement
Formal involvement
Informal invovement
Faction fighting with itself

Scripted Events
Cutscene
NPC animation

Methods of Achieving Main Goal
Science
Force
Persuasion
Stealth

Map Variables
Size of Map
Number of wings to building
Number of rooms


...im sure there are more, add some :)

Roguelikes are currently the king of randomized and replayable games. An interesting upcomming game from the maker of ADOM is called JADE, a game I would consider a nextgeneration roguelike and should be noteworthy to anyone interesting in randomized gameplay.

You can read more about it here: http://www.adom.de/jade/index.php3

I actually think random content is least applicable to RPG's (excluding roguelikes), since they're a genre that generally focuses on story and characters. RTS's and TBS's already use procedurals, some action games do, and I imagine an FPS could do it, though I can't think of one off the top of my head. The more roguelike or hack'n'slash RPG's often use procedural generation, but Final Fantasy never will, at least not until we develop computer AI with enough intelligence and creativity to start replacing us as game designers. The Final Fantasy games all have mostly linear, heavy storylines. Switching up the order, location, and characters of all the events in FF3 would leave the story a mess; you'd have no choice but to cut the story drastically and instead make it mostly a game about exploring dungeons and leveling up. That's a part of Final Fantasy games, but the story and characters are the real feature that keeps people playing them. It's what separates the Final Fantasy camp from the Diablo camp.

Oblivion's predecessor, Daggerfall, used procedural content for most dungeons, quests, and towns. The designers decided to use more handcrafted content in the later ones because of the complaints that Daggerfall seemed too lifeless and repetitive. Morrowind was less procedural, and Oblivion even less procedural than Morrowind. There are good and bad things about the move; certainly Oblivion's characters are all much more lifelike and realistic than Morrowind's and Daggerfall's, its quests make more sense and are more varied, and its architecture more impressive and unique. But the cost of that is that there is a smaller amount of theoretical replayability. I say theoretical because it's not necessarily true that someone would rather play through a boring randomized game than replay their favorite linear game for the thousandth time.

Most games I make rely on randomization. I don't have the time to make long games so I let the compy make them for me. My game Gun Ranger X does axactly that. I'm a *VERY* firm believer in controlled randomization. I'm not going to hijack this thread with a game overview, just search for "Gun Ranger X". Randomization when controlled right, is a very good option. YOu get quick development time coupled with endless play.

I think I may have misrepresented my original concept. Some games (like oblivion) could be completely procedurally (randomly) Generated. The locations in the world are not so important as the story. The original Zelda could be mostly generated.

However with a Final Fantasy game, you wouldn't be randomly generating the whole game, placing characters towns, and so on.

However, with enough work, (and I believe the true work will eventually become in the set up of the generator) you could set it up so that while the story line is linear, the map(s) get procedurally generated.

Basically you would program in points a,b,c and d. And tell the generator that it must use a fractal line to connect them.

(Start in Narshe, randomly generate escape dungeon for Tarra, Leave into world, randomly generate world between Narshe and Castle (include desert, and cave to reach Town, Randomly generate tunnel to town)

Also, the game generates and then saves the map set so that the world is not constantly generated. As long as that file is in existance that map is tied to it.

Quote:

Original post by Anonymous Poster Quote: Original post by BoZo - Roguelikes are currently the king of randomized and replayable games. An interesting upcomming game from the maker of ADOM is called JADE, a game I would consider a nextgeneration roguelike and should be noteworthy to anyone interesting in randomized gameplay. You can read more about it here: http://www.adom.de/jade/index.php3 Is Jade really going to be in text mode ???? Wont you run out of useable letters (pretty soon you are forced to use letters/sympbols that are non-mnemonic...) if you have as complicated a 'world' as the description implies???? Isnt this like a throwback 20 years in gaming (at least use Icons 'pieces' that have more variability and a chance to look like what they represent). Maybe if the target is the palmtop/cellphone market I could see why....

The game will be in ASCII yes. Mainly because then all he really has to focus on is programming the game. And it is a really giant task which still takes him several years to complete without any flashy graphics.

And secondly, I doubt that he will run out of symbols to use as both upper and lower case characters are used to depict different objects. And so does the colour of the symbol.