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On girls, guys, semantics, secret headaches and thimbles

Started by irreversible Aug 23, 2006 at 8:50 PM 41 replies 6.7k views

Original Post

Aug 23, 2006 at 8:50 PM

This isn't a post of desperation, but rather one of grand general wonderment. I would not like to know if that is what the world is like, so much so, as I would instead just like to know if I am one of the lucky ones with the optional proposition of un- to bump into the kind of folks I'm about to describe. Question: is it a lot to ask from a person to hold true to the publically agreed set of rules we commonly call "language"? This especially applies to written word. I hold no qualms against someone who can't spell "aesthetic", "oecumenic" or "osteoporosis" or, heck, even "phenomena", "passersby", "subpoena" or "zyzygy". I do, however, have certain reservations about people who end each of their queries like this:

> What can you tell me about meiosis??????

(which would prompt me to sing THAT song) or

> I know little about meiosis do you

Quite similarly, I get thoroughly annoyed by the one- and two letter contractions (usually, quite appropriately, used by girls and guys still in their girlhood):

> I luv cats dont U

> b4 u read about meiosis, ax ur mum

But it's not only the syntax - the world of Dyslexos, the God of Dyslexia - that can break a grown man in two - it's also the wonderful semantics invented by sane people. Consider this:

> I don't think life has a meaning but I think through my studies I can become successful

> I don't eat fish because I like animals

These may look like the person has trouble with normal thinking, not with semantics, but in essence these are nothing more than perfectly valid samples of lack of meaning. A very annoying professor once taught me this - if a sentence or paragraph doesn't make much sense, break it down and assign logic operators to each section. That way you can track down where the speaker's logic fails. In the above cases it fails at the totally inadequate choice of words. Note that these two (differently from the other ones) are actual real life examples from my personal experience. I won't even touch context, because life's context-sensitive enough and doesn't need touching. Finally, get a load of the people who, when IM'ing, start every entry with a capital letter, but every other sentence with a "*g*", ":)", ":D", "--", "...", lowecase letter or this freak of nature: ",,,". Such that the sentences "Hi, my name is Bessy. Currently I live on the farm. Thank you for seeing me. Come back soon!" become:


> Hi my name is bessy   ,,,, curently I live on the farm..., :P
> Thank you for seeing me...:) comeback soon!!!!!!!! :D:D:D:D:D:):P ....
> :D

Arranging words in never-before-seen sequences seems to be one of the foreboding trends nowadays. Combined with the SDS (Syntactic Deficiency Syndrome), this seems to form a new disease that doesn't have to mutate to remain non-uprootable. That's also the primary reason I've chosen toa Appear as Offline for about 99% of the time in any IM system I may ever have or have had installed on my computer. Note that this isn't a rant about anyone any of your probably know; instead, I'd like to end this with a question: does the above-mentioned stuff bother you when you're conversing? Especially with a girl who you'd generally think you'd have to be impressing, but you simply can't because anything she says is devoid of meaning (worse case) or just plain unreadable (mostly referring to IM chats here that often lack any syntactic clarity). And she isn't even stupid - she chooses to slam her hands on the keyboard instead of aiming at specific keys. And let's not even mention forum posts - if you can't take the time to open up dictionary.com in another tab when writing words you've never used in a time-free context, then that's just sad. PS - thimbles prevent finger injury when either trying to type on acupuncture keyboards or for hours at a time and should thus not be shunned edit: never post at 3 AM [Edited by - irreversible on August 23, 2006 9:20:25 PM]

Avatar God

Aug 23, 2006 at 9:09 PM

My problems:

...
:P
definately

Other than that, I'm usually pretty good about writing on the internet. I'll check out m-w.com if I start typing a word I'm not sure about (spelling or otherwise).

Quote:

PS - thimbles prevent finger injury when either trying to type on acupuncture keyboards or for hours at a time and should thus not be shunned

[looksaround]

fpsgamer

Aug 23, 2006 at 9:13 PM

Well I generally agree with you except I wouldn't say I'm a wordsmith. Infact I hope I dont reproduce any of the errors you mentioned.

I mostly dislike when people make errors in writing words we all learned to spell properly in grade school. For instance I was in IRC when a woman told me I spelled "you're" wrong and that there was infact no such word. She was clearly confusing it with "your". That whole category of contractions gets ass fucked on the internet. If you dont believe me read some youtube comments. But I can understand leaving out the apostrophe when typing quickly -- I often do.

Once someone even said they were looking forward to attending "collage" in the fall.

Another instance was in high school english class. I was peer editing a paper where the writer thought an ellipsis could be used for a pause. I wanted to scream. You can only use an ellipsis when a snippet of text is removed damnit. Use a period when you want to stop!

There is an exception though. When I'm messaging close friends spelling tends to be very sloppy. Frankly this is because both parties know that we're probably both too tired to care. The exception is messaging/emailing thoes you dont know well. In this case it is best to look like you passed the third grade.

Mushu

Aug 23, 2006 at 9:27 PM

If someone is upsetting me about it, I'll intentionally inform them of their mistakes (whether on IRC or IM or whatever) -

> can u tell me wher the box is?

> *you *where, and no, I have no idea.

With my little brother, he typically takes the time to write stuff out fully with me, simply because I've 'corrected' him so much. I guess I don't mind the smileys too much, and haven't come across the excessive punctuation, so I don't know how I'd react.

I think another thing you forgot to mention is the "lost" capslock.

> WHAR CAN I FIND TORRENTZ PLS!!!!

Which is just unreproachable, and always invokes a swift responce which, if left unheeded results in a swift block/ignore.

Ryan_001

Aug 23, 2006 at 9:27 PM

bababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronntonnerronntuonnthunntrovarrhounawnskawntoohoohoordenenthurnuk!

But really, I don't have a big problem with ppl using abrevations. Languages as a whole adapt and change. Written word is used alot more now then ever before so to see things like you -> u, and before -> b4 shoudn't be a surprise. Short forms are more a construction of necessity than a deficiency of intelligence, and requiring people to write it the long form is more an exercise in motor skills and patience than in intellectual stimulation.

That said a greater majority of ppl who use 1337 shorthand seem to be idiots than those who bother to type out the whole thing, but that doesn't mean both camps don't exhibit their share of mentally defficient persons.

I say judge what is said not how it is said.

LessBread

Aug 23, 2006 at 9:30 PM

Is that rant something that someone sent you in an email?

Extrarius

Aug 23, 2006 at 10:26 PM

You could always use elite programming skills to convert Thunderbird's spam filter into a plugin for Miranda IM (along with a few adjustments) so that you never have to see poor grammar in IMs again.

Conner McCloud

Aug 23, 2006 at 10:32 PM

Quote:
Original post by Ryan_001
Written word is used alot more now then ever before so to see things like you -> u, and before -> b4 shoudn't be a surprise.

The written word is also a lot easier now than ever before, which is a point against such abbreviations.

CM

ChaosGhost

Aug 23, 2006 at 11:00 PM

What's a zyzygy?

irreversible

Aug 24, 2006 at 1:17 AM

Quote:
Original post by LessBread
Is that rant something that someone sent you in an email?

Um - no. I write my own rants, thank you. Why would you assume that?

For real - this is much more about IM chats than e-mails.

>> What's a zyzygy?

Stepped on my own rake right there, didn't I?

JohnBolton

Aug 24, 2006 at 2:15 AM

Quote:

Question: is it a lot to ask from a person to hold true to the publically agreed set of rules we commonly call "language"?

Languages are not fixed in stone. There is no publicly agreed on set of rules. Languages change constantly and there nothing you or anyone else can do to stop it. In 100 years, many of these things that annoy you will be part of the language. How do you think words like "can't", "cannot", and "lite"(!) became part of the language?

On the other hand, people that can't communicate or are too lazy to even try to communicate (and especially the ones that don't want to communicate) can be tiring -- especially in forums like GameDev, where the whole purpose of being here is to communicate.

Melekor

Aug 24, 2006 at 2:36 AM

Here's an example of how too many ambiguous chat abbreviations can make a sentence almost impossible to understand.

Him>hey u know hs thr with alan?Me>WTF? Speak English.Him>geeze. u know what i mean

I chose this example because his assumption that I actually knew what he meant really struck me. That and I thought it was hilarious how someone could manage to spell 'Jeeze' incorrectly :P

Anyways, at the time, I didn't bother decrypting the message. But for the purposes of this post, I'll do a 'post-mortem' analysis:

HMM... So, what on earth could this actually mean?
Let's see. Here's a list of the first meanings of the abbreviations:

hs = has/his/he's
thr = through/there/their/they're

hs can't mean has because it wouldn't make sense in that context. Same goes for his. So hs must mean he's.

The subject before was a person.

So If hs means he's, then thr might mean through, as in "he's through with Alan" But as far as I know 'he' is not gay, has never had a relationship with Alan, and therefore can not be 'through with him'. Next possibility.

If thr meant there, then it would read "he's there". That sounds reasonable, let's proceed.

The remaining two possibilities left for 'thr', are quickly mentally ruled out. So thr = there.

He's there with Alan. OK, where? OK, I already closed the chat window because my last recieved message was 45 minutes ago and I can't remember the context. OK, I could open up the history and find out.

Actually, Fuck it. That's too much work. A year ago, I would have, but now, I can't be bothered. If I can't understand it after two passes, that's it.

I think communication should be relatively effortless. I want to TALK, not DECRYPT. Why should I have to work harder to understand, just so they can save a few keystrokes?

Why do I talk to these people then? Because I know them in "RL".
Ironically, they speak properly when not online. It's like being behind a monitor turns off their language sense. I try to appear offline as much as possible, and instead talk to them in person or over the phone. Inevitably though, I end up in these sorts of conversations once in a while, and that's where this little "gem" came from.

Paradigm Shifter

Aug 24, 2006 at 2:52 AM

I reckon hs = who's in that last example

Melekor

Aug 24, 2006 at 3:18 AM

Hey, you may be right. That just proves my point though, this kind of stuff can be impossible to understand - sometimes there just isn't enough information there.

ApochPiQ

Aug 24, 2006 at 3:21 AM

My mom has done quite a bit of freelance proofreading and editing in her time. I don't know anyone else with such an encyclopedic grasp of the subtleties and treachery of the English language.

And yet, every single time we talk over IM, she pulls out every abbreviation, stupid txtspk gimmick, and lazy shortcut in the book. I've tried subtly discouraging this by making sure all of my messages are meticulously well-formed, but the results have been inconclusive.

I see sense in the theory that computers deactivate brain cells. It seems to be a trend that perfectly rational, intelligent people regress to borderline-vegetable states when confronted with a keyboard and monitor.

superpig

Aug 24, 2006 at 3:27 AM

Quote:
Original post by Ryan_001
Short forms are more a construction of necessity than a deficiency of intelligence

When sending text messages on phones, I can agree with you. But on a computer? When you've got a full keyboard available for your use? No, shortening "you" to "u" is most definitely not done "out of necessity."

Flarelocke

Aug 24, 2006 at 5:01 AM

I've come to the conclusion that the reason people do this is because they can't type very well. It's all well and good for those of us who type 80 WPM to type every nuance of the English language every time, but those who have difficulty with punctuation keys avoid using punctuation, and those who have difficulty with letter keys will avoid using letters as much as they think they can get away with while still getting their point across.

Most people don't even recognize that they're having difficulty, but the key clue is that they look at the keyboard. Most people these days know more or less where the keys are, but they still look at the keys. So they're going to have to look at the screen and down at the keys and back again over and over again, losing their focus each time they look away from the screen. I, on the other hand, can proofread as I type, so it's a lot easier for me to get things correct.

benryves

Aug 24, 2006 at 7:33 AM

My problem is more with the abuse of the humble apostrophe. There are signs up in my area that read "Kut's for Kid's", a place that offers "Computer Service's and Repair's", and now even a "Caf'e" (I suppose the accent fell off the é).

Though I have to say this amused me:

Quote:
Original post by irreversible
And let's not even mention forum posts - if you can't take the time to open up dictionary.com in another tab when writing words you've never used in a time-free context, then that's just sad.

Could you not at least use an English dictionary?

Extrarius

Aug 24, 2006 at 9:32 AM

Quote:
Original post by Melekor
[...]Why do I talk to these people then? Because I know them in "RL".
Ironically, they speak properly when not online. It's like being behind a monitor turns off their language sense. I try to appear offline as much as possible, and instead talk to them in person or over the phone. Inevitably though, I end up in these sorts of conversations once in a while, and that's where this little "gem" came from.

You could always give them a taste of what they're doing by using "stupid speak" and saying things like "lol" (or any other abbreviation or word for an action instead of performing the action - P&P RPG style), "1337"(pronounced as 'elite' without the 'e' syllable, or go for broke and say "one three three seven"), or the classics "ownzor"(or use the s/^o/p version that is NOT pronounced 'pawn'), "roxor", and "haxor". If you throw in incorrect tense, a few other made-up words, and don't stop for punctuation, you can say awesomely stupid-sounding things.

kseh

Aug 24, 2006 at 11:18 AM

I prefer to think of l337 speak more as bl337 speak. After all when something is considerd cool that's when all the sheep start using it. Still, my phone only allows 150 characters per message so I will shorten stuff when texting.

I think it's a bit of a "know your audience" sort of thing. You don't sit at a bar speaking in your finest english. You don't goto work and start cussing like a sailor. And you don't use the word "cuss" because it doesn't sound as significant as the word "swear".

I've frequently used ellipsis to represent an interuption in my speach or a pause that would be longer than what would be attributed to a period. I've been known to use them while IM'ing to try and indicate that I'm not finished with my thought quite yet but I feel the need to transmit (though it seems few people get the hint that's what I'm trying to do so that's probably not correct). I'd appreciate details on how to achieve the above in posts and IM's if using ellipsis in those cases is incorrect.

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