Intellectual Property...??

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Original post by sidhantdash If some one wants to develop a new online role playing game, do they have to take permission from some1? I mean are there any forms (genres) of computer games, which if used without the proper permissions comprise IP violations? How really is IP protected in the computer games industry?? thanks

Computer game genres cannot be patented...

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Original post by sidhantdash If some one wants to develop a new online role playing game, do they have to take permission from some1? I mean are there any forms (genres) of computer games, which if used without the proper permissions comprise IP violations? How really is IP protected in the computer games industry?? thanks

Further more the patentability of IDEAS is only possible in the USA and in other countries you can only patent specific implementations which is why ofcourse trade secrets are so secret. Like for example quake cant patent the BSP Tree structure usage in conjunction with 3d rendering, they can however patent their specific implementation and specific handling algorithms.

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Original post by Stev Studio Computer game genres cannot be patented...

Though you'd probably be surprised at what can be: two-player split screen, changing cameras in a racing game, handicapping, ...

Whoops, I just don't get how the login system works, evidently...

Cheers,
Drag0n

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Original post by dawidjoubert Further more the patentability of IDEAS is only possible in the USA and in other countries you can only patent specific implementations which is why ofcourse trade secrets are so secret. Like for example quake cant patent the BSP Tree structure usage in conjunction with 3d rendering, they can however patent their specific implementation and specific handling algorithms.

That's not entirely correct. The whole idea of a patent is to protect an idea. So Id software could have patented the BSP tree structure or algorithm, regardless of the implementation. Now it's too late, since the algorithm is already in public use and would classify as prior art. But an idea about a new type of data structure can in fact be patented, at least in the US and Japan (but not in the EU, at least not so easily). Actually, many computer games and graphics related algorithms are patented.

A specific implementation however cannot be patented. Such an implementation is covered by copyright instead.

So basically in the context of software (although a little oversimplified):

* Patents = protection of ideas, methods, concepts, and algorithms
* Copyright = protection of implementations

Although I'm not aware of common video game genre patents (there might be some more obscure ones), many game ideas were or are patented. Tetris, for example, is or used to be (might have expired since, I don't remember).

I suggest you read this article: http://www.gamasutra.com/features/19970819/patent_law.htm

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Original post by Yann L ... So Id software could have patented the BSP tree structure or algorithm, regardless of the implementation...

OT: id did not invent BSP trees.

Look at H. Fuchs, Z. M. Kedem, and B. F. Naylor. On visible surface generation by a priori tree structures. In ACMComputer Graphics, volume 14, pages 124--133, July 1980.

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Original post by Yann L That's not entirely correct. The whole idea of a patent is to protect an idea....So basically in the context of software (although a little oversimplified): * Patents = protection of ideas, methods, concepts, and algorithms * Copyright = protection of implementations.

I think what you are trying to say is basically correct, but your terminology is not. Here is what the U.S. Patent Office says:

What Can Be Patented
In the language of the statute, any person who 'invents or discovers any new and useful process, machine, manufacture, or composition of matter, or any new and useful improvement thereof, may obtain a patent,'...
A patent cannot be obtained upon a mere idea or suggestion. The patent is granted upon the new machine, manufacture, etc., as has been said, and not upon the idea or suggestion of the new machine. A complete description of the actual machine or other subject matter for which a patent is sought is required.
What Is a Copyright?
Copyright is a form of protection provided to the authors of 'original works of authorship' including literary, dramatic, musical, artistic, and certain other intellectual works, ...
The copyright protects the form of expression rather than the subject matter of the writing.

Intellectual Property is complicated, but there are three main types:

1) Patents
2) Copyright
3) Trade marks


(1)Patents are by far the worst and most complicated.
Ideas as such can't be patented, but any process/procedure/way to do something can be patented. The important thing with patents is that it must be original at the time you apply for one. Patents cost thousands of dollars, and you must apply for one in every country where you want to sell your idea.
Patents are designed so that inventors can protect their idea for long enough to turn it into a product and make some money. If anyone else wants to use the same idea to make their own product during the life of the patent, they have to license the idea (or do it anyway and let you sue them for it...).
An example of a patent might be something like "a device that allows a user of a computer to provide positional input in 3 dimensions over a radio connection" or "a process in which a triangulated model is compressed in data size using curve-based appoximations"...


(2)Copyright is like a universal right to be creative.
Any creative work you create is automatically copyrighted. You dont have to lodge any applications or specifically state that your creation is copyrighted. For example, the gamedev.net logo at the top of this page cannot be downloaded and used on another website without permission - that would be infringing the copyright of its author. If you want to use a copyrighted work you must get the permission of the author. Any source code, art, storylines, characters that you come up with are your property, unless you declare them to be public-domain in which case noone owns it anymore.
Anything over about 99 years old is exempt from copyright, such as Beethovens musical scripts etc...


(3) Trade marks are names associated with a brand or product. You dont need to apply for trade mark status, but you can have them registered for extra protection.
For exmaple, the coca cola company sells a drink under the name "coke" - theyve been selling this drink for so long that people immediatley associate coke with coca cola, which makes coke a mark of their trade. In other words, the word "coke" implies that the product has come from the coca cola company.
Anything that identifies that company can be claimed as a trade mark.
This means that any names you come up with for games must be checked to see if they havnt been used by anyone else.
For example, if I tried to sell a game called "Coke Warrior", then coca cola could take me to court and argue that I am misleading the public by using a name which is heavily associated with their brand.


As a games designer/developer you dont really have to worry about patents very much.
Just make sure you dont call your game "Coke warrior", dont steal anyone elses code/art/story and you'll be fine!

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Original post by JohnBolton Quote: Original post by Yann L ... So Id software could have patented the BSP tree structure or algorithm, regardless of the implementation... OT: id did not invent BSP trees. Look at H. Fuchs, Z. M. Kedem, and B. F. Naylor. On visible surface generation by a priori tree structures. In ACMComputer Graphics, volume 14, pages 124--133, July 1980.

The BSP tree was invented in the 60's, like most useful algorithms.
In the 80's they discovered it was great for graphics (occulsion).
In the 90's, thanks to ID, it became the basis for the first person shooter (and still is).

Those assembly programmers from the 60's would be rich if they patented all their ideas at the time ;)

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Original post by JohnBolton Quote: Original post by Yann L ... So Id software could have patented the BSP tree structure or algorithm, regardless of the implementation... OT: id did not invent BSP trees.

Id did some pretty unique changes to the BSP structure as it was known at the time, this might have been enough for a patent to be granted.

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I think what you are trying to say is basically correct, but your terminology is not. Here is what the U.S. Patent Office says: What Can Be Patented In the language of the statute, any person who 'invents or discovers any new and useful process, machine, manufacture, or composition of matter, or any new and useful improvement thereof, may obtain a patent,'... A patent cannot be obtained upon a mere idea or suggestion. The patent is granted upon the new machine, manufacture, etc., as has been said, and not upon the idea or suggestion of the new machine. A complete description of the actual machine or other subject matter for which a patent is sought is required.

So ? Obviously you need to describe your idea or concept, something has to go into the patent application after all. But an actual prototype (ie. an implementation) is not required for patent to be granted. A patent is the protection of something immaterial. Often, software patent texts specifically state that said methodology is covered by the patent, regardless of implementation. This might be a little borderline, but is very common in software patents. In the end, the USPTO will neither test, nor evaluate the technical feasability of the patent (with a few exception, eg. patent applications for Perpetuum Mobile machine are not accepted for obvious reasons). This is left to the courts, if the patent is challenged by a competitor.

But the implementation, ie. the binary or source code that implements the patented concept, or a machine that is based on the concept, is not patentable. This is covered by copyright.

So what I seem to understand is that unless the developer copies someone elses code or storyline, he can't be sued. Genres, I am inclined to believe, arent patented.

But it has been pointed out that certain technicalities, like for instance multiple cameras in a racing game are patented. All racing games I can think of, implement this feature. So does that mean that all the other developers pay this person/company that holds the patent? Or do different implementations of the same idea (of having multiple cameras) not comprise patent violations? The patentability of 'ideas' is really the issue here. So if the 'idea' of having multiple cameras in a racing game is patented, that would mean that other game developers would need to pay to use the feature in their games, no matter how they implement it.

And the other issue is the country where one holds the patent for an 'idea'. So for eg. if a particular gaming concept is patented in Japan, does that mean that a game based on this idea could be created and marketed in India, without having to pay the original Japanese creators, or be sued by them?

No, if you copy someones code or storyline you CAN be sued, if the you don't have a license to use them for whatever purpose you are attempting to use them for, or don't follow the requirements of the license. I believe that would be a copyright violation.

You can make whatever genre you want. I seriously doubt that multiple cameras is a patented idea. And if it is by some retarded chance, I seriously doubt anyone is being paid for it by every racing game that comes out.

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Original post by sidhantdash And the other issue is the country where one holds the patent for an 'idea'. So for eg. if a particular gaming concept is patented in Japan, does that mean that a game based on this idea could be created and marketed in India, without having to pay the original Japanese creators, or be sued by them?

A patent only applies in the country that awards it. Somebody in India could copy an invention that is patented in Japan. However, there are treaties between many countries that make it easier for a person with a patent in one country to get a patent in another. So, the person in Japan might get a patent in India (if he/she thought it was worth the effort) and then you would be out of business.

I'm a little surprised nobody has brought this one up.

Talk to a local lawyer specializing in that area of law.

A lot of the information discussed applies globally, but IP law is complicated and varies by location.

The relatively small amount of money spent getting acurate information from a lawyer is cheap compared to the huge amount of money spent trying to fight a lawsuit caused by your own lack of research.

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Original post by PhilMorton Those assembly programmers from the 60's would be rich if they patented all their ideas at the time ;)

Well who knew back then those big ass room-filling computers would become more popular than TV? :)