RPG Classes for My Future Game

Interesting....

Include quest xp and you'll go far.

Needs more bard ;)

Seriously, it seems like your creating a fantasy based rpg, and alot of the names look like they came out of a FPS. A few that really stand out is "Demolitionist" and "Combat Medic". I would consider overhauling alot of the class names.

Wow, that sure is a lot of classes... Are you working on this alone?
Will you realistically be able to generate enough content to make them all interesting? World of Warcraft has an huge budget, and they stopped at nine.
If you limit the number of classes someone can play as, you limit the amount of content a player can see. Each player will only see a fraction of the effort you've put into it. Having less classes will enable you to make what classes you do have more varied and interesting.

Knight, Paladin, and Warrior could all be merged into the same class, for example. Then, the player could chose to focus on developing his defensive, offensive, or balanced skills. The player then gets to see three times the combat, but still have the specilisation you were aiming for when you designed the classes.

If you're having trouble even thinking of names for all your classes, how are you going to think of interesting gameplay mechanics for all of them? Think of what will be really interesting, and put your time into those ones. Quality > Quantity.

I agree with limiting the number of classes in most situations. As a player, I would normally want them down to 6 to 8.

However, there are situations where I think that this number of classes will work. Mainly situations where players are not as stuck on them like monorails. Instead of forcing players to choose a class, why not have them define their class with action? Players who constantly snipe become snipers. Sneaky players who always take enemies out before they have a chance to fight back are assassins. Fight-heavy characters who focus on evil monsters are paladins.

It's possible to make many rewarding classes hard to reach. So that players with a lot of diversity in action fall into less interesting classes. You could also add upgrades to these classes, having some classes evolve into more specific classes. IE, Warrior -> Fighter -> Paladin. Soldier -> Gunslinger -> Sniper. Each evolved class being more picky than it's hierarchal parents. Becoming a warrior is easy; you just have to fight often. But the fighter class is reached only by very honorable and respectful warriors. Kicking people on the ground or attacking them before they're prepared would work against that class. Paladin would only be reached when honorable fighters dedicate themselves soley to stopping evil. Hurting non-evil characters would have negative marks against the paladin class.

In this way, you're not confusing the player with the number of choices. But are instead giving them a lot of areas to explore with their character's growth.

A large number of classes doesn't need to be any more confusing than a large number of other kinds of stats. If you choose a role at first, then later choose a class, and then even later an elite class, you'll probably have played the game long enough to have an idea what choices suit you by the time you have to make them, and there'll most likely be several classes that needn't even be considered due to the previous choices. If you also make sure that the player don't have to plan character development too far ahead to get the kind of character he'll want, there shouldn't be much of a problem (eg. not making it so that this one elite class is pretty much unatainable if the player didn't train just that one skill 30 levels ago).

That said, you do have about a kazillion different role/class/elite class(es) combos. That's a lot of different choices right there, so you might not want as many other choices to be made during character development as would want in a similar system with fewer classes. When the class is that specific, there's a lot of choices that doesn't need to be made by the player (eg. if your rifleman want to train the "Shooting at stuff" skill or the "Punching stuff" skill -- making that choice every level doesn't add any customization, it's just a chance to screw up your character by making the "wrong" choice).

Quote:

Will you realistically be able to generate enough content to make them all interesting? World of Warcraft has an huge budget, and they stopped at nine.

You could transform all the good builds in WoW into new classes and have lots of classes, using the same content. In that case it'd just be the matter of whether or not you specialize by picking a class or by picking talents. In the end, whether or not there are too many classes depends on lots of other things, that noone but DarkMortar knows about ;)

Have you ever played Final Fantasy Tactics Advanced (for the gameboy so I know that if you are an adult the chances of having played it are slim)?

If you havn't here is how the class system works:

You have 5 different races, each with a certain amount of starting classed - for example humans have archers, black mages, white mages, soldiers and some others.

The greatest thing though is you can change your characters class (you control a clan of up to 24 (I think) people). For example your player starts off a soldier but if you want can change to an archer.

As you level up your characters gain stats based on their class (for example a soldier will gain points in speed, attack and defense whilst a mage would gain points in magic attack and magic defense). This means that if you had a guy who had been the mage for the past three levels you could easily change him into a soldier, but he'd be pretty useless.

As you gain skills for a certain class you can unlock better classes - for example learning two soldier skills will earn you the ability to become a fighter or a paladin, if you want (skills are taught in a wierd way, not like in most games).

Another great thing is you can use the skills you gained from one class whilst being another class, you could train a guy to use white magic, then make him a soldier thus giving you a self sustaining tank! But you need to bear things in mind (for example giving a soldier archer abilities would be stupid, because soldiers use sword and therefore couldn't use ranged attacks.

Well with any luck that should have given you a bit of inspiration for your classes. Also if you are looking for names FFTA has about 40 different classes so if you search it on google you'll probably find a good amount of names.

Quote:

Original post by Peter Conn As you level up your characters gain stats based on their class (for example a soldier will gain points in speed, attack and defense whilst a mage would gain points in magic attack and magic defense).

An RPG that grants experience in skills as they are used could still implement this as well, by just giving a bonus in skills that relate to the class. So adapting a class would be sort of like focusing your character's attention.

I'm making a game FFTAesque and it has 3 tiers of classes. It starts with 2 and then 4 and finally 13. Each time it gets slightly more specialized. I feel the 13 is a number that is do-able. Each class has different Bonus stats and weapon sets they can equip. Also to make them even more special they will each get a unique ability ranging from MP discounts to Health regen. For extra customization stat boosts will come from items (I know its an odd concept but it was in like Adventure quest 64 I think). This means if you wanted to make a tank you could take the most Defense specialized class (armored kinght) and then load stat points into Def. I'm also adding races which will allow for more customization. (Even though you start with 2 classes there is 4 races so that gives 8 beginning options). NO classes are not restricted by race but cetain classes/races synergize better. Elf mage, dwarf tank

Lets do a little math. I'm making a whole lot of assumptions here, but I think they're fairly reasonable.
He is saying the player ONLY gets one role, one class, and two elites. The player is going to be playing 100 levels with these characters, so they are probably going to want at least 16 skills to play around with. That comes to about 4 skills per catagory.

I'm going to make a pretty big generalisation and say that it could take two hours per unique skill you program. It could take much more to do a summoning spell where you have to code the creature, it could take a little less if it's a variation on an existing spell with different damage, range, or what have you. Two hours is about how long it takes me to add a new move or item to a fighting game without graphics or sounds.

So. 49 catagories * 4 skills * 2 hours = 392 hours. If you are an extremely dedicated hobbyist and put in 3 hours a day, that's 130 days toil to code your skills alone. And that's a fairly conservative estimate. If you factor in graphics, days off, sound effects, or more skills per class...it could easily take a year to try and code that many skills.
And you have to code an engine, write a story, make the levels and quests...

Try to write one catagory with four skills first. Create a simple quest for that character to partake. Then, once you have an idea for the work involved, start on your epic vision.

Quality over quantity.

Quote:

Original post by CIJolly If you are an extremely dedicated hobbyist and put in 3 hours a day, ...

Wow. That really puts things into perspective. I must be a real freakshow. I would personally feel like a total slacker if I only put in three hours on one particular day. My norm is probably no less than eight. And every day, I feel like I could have gotten a little more done.

I'm not sure how complex the OP's game will be, but judging from the complexity that was put into the information presented here, I think two hours per character skill is an understatement. That, or I'm just way too slow. I think many skills in a decently complex RPG will evolve, without end, to the end of the game's design. And every time they evolve, you have to go back and add new things, remove old things, and scotch-tape it all back up. Or you can just do what I do; just stare at the screen while you hold your head.

Sorry guys, I didn't really describe how the classes are chosen to you.

Well, I do like a high number of professions, each will be very different. Such as the Knight, Paladin, and Warrior. Certain professions get certain "abilities" and attributes others don't. Also, certain professions are allowed to have certain weapon certifications which adds difference on tactics.

What I mainly did not state was this, and it was very important, sorry I left it out... The player DOES NOT choose all of the professions from character creation. The only thing I ask about professions about character generation is his ROLE. You only start out knowing your role, which is most important.

From the ROLE you choose there is a skill tree. It is 4 boxes wide, and 8 skill boxes high. The amount of experience required increases a lot as you progress. The final box is the "master box." Lets say you choose sentinel as your role. You are a defensive player. You get the "novice skills" from the start when you select your role, but you have no skill boxes. Each of the 4 boxes is usually related from bottom to top. Such as column of boxes may emphasize more on attributes while the other is more about abilities you can use for combat, and another box for weapon certs ect.

Here’s the deal, you cannot choose a CLASS until you reach level 15. You will not finish the actual ROLE skill tree for a long time, the ROLE tree is a tree that is slowest to progress in, and it is the most important. It is up to the player on weather or not they want to use their experience points on their role or their class or their elite. The player has no idea about the classes and the elites until he reaches a certain level.

EX:
-Player chooses a ROLE from character generation.
-Player chooses a CLASS once he/she reaches level 15+.
-Player chooses an ELITE CLASS once he/she reaches level 50+.
-Once player reaches level 100, there will be “special quests” (hard) to unlock the remaining 10, and this also involves inflated experience required for those skill boxes.
-Then all maxed, yay.

Definitions:
ROLE: Is the base main and most important choice, it is chosen from the start. The role effects your armor certifications, possibly some weapon certs, the way in how your
VAP (Vitality(RED), Action(ORANGE), Psyche(BLUE)) bars multiply after each level. The role class also has the most useful abilities within its skill boxes, the attribute bonus are the highest of the 3 types of classes.

CLASS: Is more specialized than the role class. The duty of selecting a class prepares you for your elite class choice. If you select a guardsman as your class for example. It will have a 4x6 skill tree with boxes that cover most ranged weapons, yet only slightly. It also would include defensive attributes since it is guardsman.
// Under DEBATE: do you think I should make it so you MUST have a certain class in order to select certain elites? But the fault I see with this, is that I want a nice mixture in the character professions though.

ELITE CLASS: Is a specialized class the ONLY focuses on the certain weapon or whatever for the class. IE: if you choose Rifleman as an elite, the tree will be 4x4 and will contain skills that improve ONLY rifle speeds/accuracy, as well as abilities that ONLY work with a rifle. Also riflemen will get special weapon certs that NO OTHER CLASS will get to make it special and useful. Then you will be using your rifle as your MAIN AND GOOD weapon.

So, in reality there really aren’t as many classes, because you “become” a class as you move along. The 3 tiers of classes get bigger, so it allows more variance in the characters as you progress. My game is more of a free-flow roam game with quests, for those who like that. But my game focuses more on character development and the game world and story overall. There is no “beating” my game, it goes on forever, you may complete the main quests, but there are many paths and there is no “winning” or losing.”

You can even not be finished with all of the skill boxes in your CLASS before you start the ELITE CLASS, same goes for ROLE. Level has nothing to do with your skills. Levels are separate, it has to do with max health, and you gain attributes each level, depending on your ROLE framework. The skills you have are more important than your level. My ability skills granted from the skill boxes depend on the class. My combat in my game is “live” as in its “time” based and based on the speed of your weapon. Lets say you have a pistol with 1.6speed, which means you can do a “normal” attack every 1.6 seconds. Yet certain special abilities add more to that timer depending on the ability. But the “AGILITY” attribute can lessen that(I think). So in my game you have a bar that has “slots” for up to 12 abilities (using the F1-12 keys) you may use in combat, you can rearrange them, add/remove them when you are out of combat or the zone. In my game “normal” attack does not take a toolbar space, it is mapped to the key “CONTROL.” You can press this in combat and attack normally right after a special to deal dmg as your specials recharge. If you have dual pistols you can use BOTH CONTROL buttons to attack with each individual pistol. The normal attack takes less ACTION pool then specials do, and the amount depends on your weapon and your STAMINA. If you have a special like FORTIFY, and lets say it adds +100 defense for a certain amount of time like 30 seconds, you will have to reapply it when it wears off to still have it, and it has a timer as well. Skills that stack like defense and attack skills are vital in combat. So you need to know your stuff in my game to succeed in high-end PvE as I have to call it.

I will need to post again once I have my trees drawn out and understood, with care. But I am concerned mostly about my CLASSES and ELITE CLASSES, and how if they should be connected and named, lol.

My game is going to be top-down 2D, and for now, as a start, I guess the combat wont be “where you control the character and aim.” But more like side/side combat like in FF or lol… “pokemon.” But my combat is “Real-time.”

As far as skill progression goes, it will take a looong time to reach level 100, and months to finish off at 110. This is a DEEP and involved rpg, and its hard. Well ok, only as hard as you want it to be.

Ty for help, and please keep recommending lol.

For me, 8 hours a day would be about what I could achieve in a holiday. During the university year, there literally wouldn't be enough hours in a day to fit in class, study, sleeping, eating, and 8 hours coding. What do you do for a living Kest? Indie game developer?

Now I remember what this reminds me of!

Fire Emblem!

That game had squillions of classes and you never got confused by it all. Why would that happen with this?

heres two pennies

classless > classes

Instead of forcing each character to submit to a limited number of skills based on class why not have the player be able to pick and choose skills from each different archetype. If you want to build a knight - all of the skills are laid out for the player in an archetype that the player selects from, but if you dont want that silly 'blocking' skill you dont have to learn it.

There are advantages to uses a class system like iconic sprites and its probably easier for the average person to wrap his head around a set of skills based on a class.

I never played Fire Emblem lol, but I donno I got a lot of ideas from the old SWG system MMO, which was like EQ/EQ2. Which had like ~10 novice professions, and ~30 elite professions, along with hybrids that required you to master a novice and an elite to have it. Mixed that with the timers in the combat upgrade version, and of course nothing from the new NGE version (when I quitted), because it was lame.

The combat in my game is a lot of "key-pounding" your health will go down, and you can heal, lol. You will have specils that enchance your defenses, specials that "infuse health," specials that debuff, stack posions or bleeds to your oppoent, abilities that lower certain stats of your enemy. The bars will show how they are timed, in the timer by a slow transparent rectangle slowly filing the "ability icon" in the bar. I want my npcs/monsters to heal as well and be intelligent. Your action bar will go down, but will regain faster then the Psyche bar, which is used when you heal or use some specials. In most cases, you die because you can no longer heal, or the power of your enemy is so vast compared to you. The 10 extra levels allow special weapon certs, which is like "the jedi."

WHAT DO YOU PERFER, well its actually my decision but what do you think:

About the player movement and combat, it has been really bugging me, but i donno:
It WILL be harder for me to have fluid character movement along the map ALONG with REALLY LIVE combat, with moving enemy sprites and attack and projectiles emit from them and try to hit you, but you can move around while fighting, this is the hardest to program, and if done wrong, the combat wouldnt be as deep, or it will be too hard for me. The EASIEST scenarior, is if the game is tile-based, and you move in squares along the map, and there are enemies that appear on a side menu, that you can attack. In tile-based the cities will appear on the side menu and you can enter them by clicking a button. And the combat would be seperate and all you see is the picture of the enemeny and your health bars ect, and fight.

But the ideal way is where you can move.. AND fight the creatures at the same time, but its harder, and i plan to implement the mouse to help you aim, by clicking on the monster.

man, im a "typey" person, lol.

Quote:

Original post by NoPancakeMix heres two pennies classless > classes Instead of forcing each character to submit to a limited number of skills based on class why not have the player be able to pick and choose skills from each different archetype. If you want to build a knight - all of the skills are laid out for the player in an archetype that the player selects from, but if you dont want that silly 'blocking' skill you dont have to learn it. There are advantages to uses a class system like iconic sprites and its probably easier for the average person to wrap his head around a set of skills based on a class.

Good point. Then again, classes > classless.

Instead of forcing a player to pick and choose skills from each different archetype, why not have the player be able to submit to a limited number of skills based on class?

One option isn't any "better" than the other, and a classless system obviously isn't what he's going for.


Bit more on topic:

Is there some system to the elite class-list? I'd guess there is some, as the empty slots don't come at the end of the list... like, is there anything each of the [empty] ones are supposed to cover or do they "belong" to certain classes or some such?

Well I have recently filled all the slots, but im debating all of the names and their order, and purpose. I am a PERFECTIONIST.

EDIT: I just thought the proffs through again, I WILL be having certs for the ELITE PROFFS, becaise it would make no sense to be a Sorcerer(dark magic), and then select a Light Mage(light magic) as an elite when it would be comeplty ineffective, because the light and dark magic cancel each other out and become useless. Also, it would be weird if you were a knight, and then you decide to be a pikeman, when knights never use pikes.

new elite names, still will change:

Rifleman
Carbineer
Pistoleer
Sharpshooter
Martial Artist
Fencer
Swordsman
Pikeman
Combat Medic
Doctor
Squad Leader
Commando
Hero
Grenadier
Ranger
Tamer
Assassin
Smuggler
Wielder
Dark Mage
Necromancer
Chaos
Drainer
Light Mage
Protector
Blue Mage
Red Mage
Illusionist


[Edited by - DarkMortar on October 20, 2006 12:43:32 AM]

Knights do so use pikes!

Anyway, this also reminds me of a class tree I built for fun (this one IS kinda based off fire emblem 8 - wondered what it would be like if the class system was expanded).

I'll give it to you, for free. I'm probably not gonna use it, so...meh. If you don't wanna use it, maybe someone else will.

It works like this: You start out as a 'recruit' and have one point in swords, bows and elemental magic. When you get to a certain level (eg 10)you are forced to choose one of the class trees: melee, ranged or magic, and lose the ability to use any weapon not of your class tree.

The tree below is a map of the classes.

http://www.imagehosting.us/index.php?action=show&ident=1689616

To change your class, you can do one of two things. Normally, there are certain conditions (one per class eg STR =>45 or do a certain amount of good deeds, the requirements get harder to fufil when you remort) that will, once one is fufilled, automatically change your class. If both conditions are simultaneously reached, then you must use a special item to upgrade, listed below (2.Swords(Mark of Skill)...). Each colour denotes a different number.

1 is red, 2 is green and 3 is blue.

The gold and silver arrows means that the class they point to is an 'ultimate' class, and can equip any weapon of their specific type. Gold class-up items are equipped on your character once used, and are unremovable. If a gold item is already equipped when you become an ultimate class, then the item becomes removeable. Ultimate classes have no requirements, meaning that the only way to get them is via item usage.

The numbers on the 'map' (eg 23 or 10) represent a class.

When you change class, your character gains 'weapon skill.' The higher your weapon skill, the better the gear you can equip. Once you get to the end of a tree, you can remort back to a recruit and start over again, keeping all your stats. Once you have gone through all 9 ultimate classes, then you gain access to a 'higher' class tree, which enables you to go above the MAX weapon skill. Once you've done THAT nine times, then you become the "Hero" class, which can equip anything.

This tree could allow for great (justice[lol]) character customization.

Oh yeah, non-melee classes can use 'sidearms,' such as short swords or clubs.

Melee classes(1.Lances(Noble Proof), 2.Swords(Mark of Skill), 3.Axes(Savage Fang)
Gold – Orichalcum Gauntlet
Silver – Badge of Honour
1. Apprentice (Sword =1, Lance +0, Axe +0)
2. Page (Sword +0, Lance +1, Axe +0)
3. Woodsman (Sword +0, Lance +0, Axe +1)
4. Squire (Sword +0, Lance +1, Axe +0)
5. Swordsman (Sword +1, Lance +0, Axe +0)
6. Brigand (Sword +0, Lance +0, Axe +1)
7. Horseman (Sword +0, Lance +2, Axe +0)
8. Knight (Sword +1, Lance +1, Axe +0)
9. Blade Stalker (Sword +1, Lance +0, Axe +1)
10. Savage (Sword +0, Lance +0, Axe +2)
11. Cavalier (Sword +0, Lance +2, Axe +0)
12. Man-at-Arms (Sword +1, Lance +1, Axe +0)
13. Swordmaster (Sword +3, Lance +0, Axe +0)
14. Brawler (Sword +1, Lance +0, Axe +1)
15. Barbarian (Sword +0, Lance +0, Axe +2)
16. Lancer (Sword +0, Lance +3, Axe +0)
17. Lord (Sword +1, Lance +2, Axe +0)
18. Paladin (Sword +2, Lance +1, Axe +0)
19. Duellist (Sword +2, Lance +0, Axe +1)
20. Warrior (Sword +1, Lance +0, Axe +2)
21. Berserker (Sword +0, Lance +0, Axe +3)
22. Odin (Sword +0, Lance +MAX, Axe +0)
23. Cross Knight (Sword +MAX, Lance +0, Axe +0)
24. Titan (Sword +0, Lance +0, Axe +MAX)

Ranged classes(1.Guns(Silver Bullet) 2.Bows(Ancient Arrowhead), 3.Daggers(Shadow Gem)
Gold – Cloak of the Wind God
Silver – Sign of Marksmanship
1. Bowman (Bow =1, Gun +0, Dagger +0)
2. Shooter (Bow +0, Gun +1, Dagger +0)
3. Thief (Bow +0, Gun +0, Dagger +1)
4. Gunner (Bow +0, Gun +1, Dagger +0)
5. Archer (Bow +1, Gun +0, Dagger +0)
6. Vagrant (Bow +0, Gun +0, Dagger +1)
7. Infantry (Bow +0, Gun +2, Dagger +0)
8. Sharpshooter (Bow +1, Gun +1, Dagger +0)
9. Rogue (Bow +1, Gun +0, Dagger +1)
10. Ninja (Bow +0, Gun +0, Dagger +2)
11. Marine (Bow +2, Gun +0, Dagger +0)
12. Marksman (Bow +1, Gun +1, Dagger +0)
13. Hunter (Bow +3, Gun +0, Dagger +0)
14. Shinobi (Bow +1, Gun +0, Dagger +1)
15. Ninja (Bow +0, Gun +0, Dagger +2)
16. Ace (Bow +0, Gun +3, Dagger +0)
17. Sniper (Bow +1, Gun +2, Dagger +0)
18. Master of Bows (Bow +2, Gun +1, Dagger +0)
19. Ranger (Bow +2, Gun +0, Dagger +1)
20. Assassin (Bow +1, Gun +0, Dagger +2)
21. Ninja Master (Bow +0, Gun +0, Dagger +3)
22. Gunslinger (Bow +0, Gun +MAX, Dagger +0)
23. Sentinel (Bow +MAX, Gun +0, Dagger +0)
24. Unseen One (Bow +0, Gun +0, Dagger +MAX)



Magic classes(1.Light(Holy Sign), 2.Elemental(Book of Knowledge), 3.Dark(Evil Emblem)
Gold – Great One’s Ring
Silver – Sigil of Power
1. Pupil (Elemental =1, Light +0, Dark +0)
2. Disciple (Elemental +0, Light +1, Dark +0)
3. Initiate (Elemental +0, Light +0, Dark +1)
4. Monk (Elemental +, Light +1, Dark +0)
5. Shaman (Elemental +1, Light +0, Dark +0)
6. Dark Mage (Elemental +0, Light +0, Dark +1)
7. Priest (Elemental +0, Light +2, Dark +0)
8. Neophyte (Elemental +1, Light +1, Dark +0)
9. Mage (Elemental +1, Light +0, Dark +1)
10. Shadow Servant (Elemental +0, Light +0, Dark +2)
11. Bishop (Elemental +0, Light +2, Dark +0)
12. Savant (Elemental +1, Light +1, Dark +0)
13. Druid (Elemental +3, Light +0, Dark +0)
14. Dark Seer (Elemental +1, Light +0, Dark +1)
15. Shadow Weaver (Elemental +0, Light +0, Dark +2)
16. Saint (Elemental +0, Light +3, Dark +0)
17. Scholar (Elemental +1, Light +2, Dark +0)
18. Wise One (Elemental +2, Light +1, Dark +0)
19. Warlock (Elemental +2, Light +0, Dark +1)
20. Shadow Master (Elemental +1, Light +0, Dark +2)
21. Dark Lord (Elemental +0, Light +0, Dark +3)
22. Sacred (Elemental +0, Light +MAX, Dark +0)
23. Wizard (Elemental +MAX, Light +0, Dark +0)
24. Hellborn (Elemental +0, Light +0, Dark +MAX)