"Kramer" goes berserk - sparks debate about racism on GDNet!

Gootube link for those that don't want to install ActiveX.


Crazyness...

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The camera started rolling just as Richards began his attack, screaming at one of the men, "Fifty years ago we'd have you upside down with a f***ing fork up your ass." Richards continued, "You can talk, you can talk, you're brave now motherf**ker. Throw his ass out. He's a nigger! He's a nigger! He's a nigger! A nigger, look, there's a nigger!"

Unless the "playful" heckling that Kyle Doss admits to contained racial slurs, I'd say an outburst like that makes someone a racist in my eyes.

">here's his apology

Yeah I was flipping through the channels last night and happened upon Richards' apology on Letterman. I had no clue what the hell he was talking about, but about 2 seconds of Google/Wiki'ing and I found out.

He's probably not racist, but how can anyone overlook the fact that he might be suffering from some psychosis or personality disorder? My guess is he's not exactly in the best mental state right now. He is getting old.

In his defense, his tirade isn't *that* different than the routines of most comics.

Most successful stand-up comedians do the same thing. They a) make fun of the audience, and b) make racist or other kinds of politically-incorrect jokes. Both are nice reliable ways to get a good laugh.

Richards definitely went too far, but I can believe it was just a lack of tact than him honestly being racist.

Kramer? Unhinged? Unimaginable!!!!

So... a white man can call black men "niggers," talk about having them hung with a "fork up their asses"... but he's "probably not racist"?

Right.

Thanks, just needed to check.




Are you out of your fucking minds? Look, it is in the slips that a person's true attitudes toward others are revealed. Most human beings are racist; we just repress it sufficiently to function politely in society. Most people are not overtly racist, they just have a number of ingrained racist attitudes that are functions of indoctrination and ignorance. That is something to be pitied, not hated. However, Richards' outburst is not the indoctrination and ignorance sort. He's racist as fuck. Racist as Mel Gibson.

Thank you, and enjoy the rest of the show.

Kramer? Unhinged? Unimaginable!!!!

Both sides are dumb. Kramer, being a professional, should not have lost his cool the way he did, and the guys heckling him should've just left if he wasn't funny. I caught the apology, and Michael did seem pretty shaken, probably not really realizing that somewhere, deep down, he is racist.

But I believe that goes for most people. even though, on the outside, one promotes cultural integration, deep down, there's a racist bigot in their, waiting to come out. I, for one, am glad that at least one extra person out their may actually realize this.

Everything after the fork comment struck me as being Richards saying what he knew would piss off the black guy. The fork thing...that seemed a bit too angry to be a calculated comment.

CM

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Original post by Oluseyi SLook, it is in the slips that a person's true attitudes toward others are revealed.

Not neccesarily. There is no empirical evidence stating that a person's true intentions will ALWAYS come out when their anger gets to boiling point...Have you ever considered the occassional person that shouts harmful things in order to get under someone else's skin, does so because they feel threatened? The black guys were rudely heckling him at HIS standup and he responded, stupidly. I wouldn't really think of it as anything beyond that. Being onstage creates a lot of tension and pressure inside the performer and while its safe to say that this tension caused Richards to "snap" onstange, and I don't think its fair to say that 'Kramer' is racist for making a statement under such circumstances.

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Original post by Oluseyi So... a white man can call black men "niggers," talk about having them hung with a "fork up their asses"... but he's "probably not racist"?

Not necessarily, generally if you want to hurt people you don't tell them what you mean, but what will hurt them the most, it doesn't matter if you agree or not. Many black people are offended when you call them "nigger", and are racist towards them. I believe he is a little racist, like pretty much anyone, however I doubt he is "overtly" racist, he just went too far. Honestly, he looks quite racist on stage, but I believe it could be anger and we shouldn't really label him 100 % racist yet.

This is of course, not to say the people deserved it or what he did was even remotely correct. Many people have a tendency of labeling someone a racist if something looks just a little discriminating (not directed at you), and I believe this might partially be what is happening.

So how come no one is pointing out that the heckler's may in fact be racist as well? After all, if calling them niggers is racist, wouldn't calling Richards a cracker and white-boy be the same deal? It's a consistent mentality among blacks to consider white people as "white people/folk" and "crackers" where I live, and I'm sure it's carried elsewhere.

This reminds me of when I was in high school. "Cracker" this, "white-boy" that != racism, but "nigger" you, "nigger" them === racism and all hell would just about break loose.

Richards went a little far, but that doesn't excuse the hecklers to join in the tirade of racial discrimination either.

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Original post by Oluseyi Look, it is in the slips that a person's true attitudes toward others are revealed.

Not really. If things were that simple then modern psychology could be condensed into a few true/false tests. There are way more factors in a person's psyche that causes them to say the things they say, and it varies from person to person.

I agree that pretty much everybody is racist; unless you are blind to it, you see it. That doesn't necessarily equate racism with hate, and if you listen closely to his remarks during the event in question, it seems like he just thought he was being outrageous. He crossed a line, and it appears he realized that now, and erring is human.

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Original post by Rain 7 The black guys were rudely heckling him at HIS standup and he responded, stupidly.

Being heckled is a part of standup. Several comedians got their break by heckling themselves. A little heckling and now Richards gets to snap and call them niggers and talk about shoving forks up their asses like would have been done "50 years ago"?

Richards will work again, because White People will give him a pass, because White People sometimes think exactly what he said. That's not to say that you as a white individual think that, just that I as a black individual, and the rest of the Black People, know this. So stop trying to convince me he had a point. (Don't worry, Black People tend to think equally evil things about white individuals. See below.)

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Original post by Mathachew So how come no one is pointing out that the heckler's may in fact be racist as well? After all, if calling them niggers is racist, wouldn't calling Richards a cracker and white-boy be the same deal? It's a consistent mentality among blacks to consider white people as "white people/folk" and "crackers" where I live, and I'm sure it's carried elsewhere.

It is racist. "Cracker." "White boy." It's racist. People tend to be racist. However, the racist attitudes - as distinct from actions - of nameless, faceless individuals is not news, but the racist actions of a recognized, popular face that is syndicated into your home multiple times a day is news.

I fail to see how the one excuses the other. I don't recall anyone saying anything about the innocence of the audience, besides the guys in the audience themselves (with the "that was uncalled for" comment).

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Original post by Oluseyi Richards will work again, because White People will give him a pass, because White People sometimes think exactly what he said. That's not to say that you as a white individual think that, just that I as a black individual, and the rest of the Black People, know this. So stop trying to convince me he had a point.

Tell that to Jimmy the Greek, Howard Cosell, and a host of other white dudes that made racial remarks that blew up on them. Kramer will work again, but not likely in entertainment.

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Original post by Mathachew So how come no one is pointing out that the heckler's may in fact be racist as well? After all, if calling them niggers is racist, wouldn't calling Richards a cracker and white-boy be the same deal? It's a consistent mentality among blacks to consider white people as "white people/folk" and "crackers" where I live, and I'm sure it's carried elsewhere. This reminds me of when I was in high school. "Cracker" this, "white-boy" that != racism, but "nigger" you, "nigger" them === racism and all hell would just about break loose. Richards went a little far, but that doesn't excuse the hecklers to join in the tirade of racial discrimination either.

While the audience's comments were also uncalled for, the histories of the terms "cracker" and "nigger" are completely different. The latter has centuries of suffering attached to it. Black people still deal with these prejudices. Even though conditions have improved since slavery and since segregation, the term still carries the awful connotations and black people still suffer very real hardships because of their race (it's becoming more of a class issue, but institutional racism and phenomena such as white flight tie it to race).

Since the colonial era, white people have been the predominant ethnicity in the US while blacks, Asians, Hispanics, etc all deviate from that norm. Making fun of a white person by saying "cracker" doesn't have the horrible connotation "nigger" has. "Yo cracker, you're so white!" isn't rooted in generations of prejudice and intolerance like "Hey nigger, remember slavery and how your grandparents couldn't go to school with us white folk?"
When a white person calls a black person a nigger, he/she's pretty much saying, "You're subhuman, we'll always own you." When a black person calls a white person a cracker, he/she's saying, "I resent the oppression my race went through and the control white people still have over my life".

The retaliatory comments of "cracker" to Richards seemed to be just that - retaliation for being called niggers. That doesn't excuse it, but they don't seem to harbor a deep-seated hatred of white people like Richards seems to of black people. He's either just as racist as Richards or he overreacted trying to belittle Richards.

[Edited by - davobrosia on November 21, 2006 3:46:00 PM]

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Original post by Oluseyi It is racist. "Cracker." "White boy." It's racist. People tend to be racist. However, the racist attitudes - as distinct from actions - of nameless, faceless individuals is not news, but the racist actions of a recognized, popular face that is syndicated into your home multiple times a day is news. I fail to see how the one excuses the other. I don't recall anyone saying anything about the innocence of the audience, besides the guys in the audience themselves (with the "that was uncalled for" comment).

You're right, it's more news when a popular face does it, but I wasn't referring to them being singled out in the news, but in this discuss we're having here. No one is to be excused here (in regards to exchanging words like they were). It sounded like the ones yelling "that was uncalled for" were the ones yelling the racial slurs back to Richards, though it's possible that one of the two said the racial slurs while another was saying it was uncalled for. I wasn't there, so I don't know, I was only pointing out that the comments went both ways, with Richards initiating the bashing.

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Richards will work again, because White People will give him a pass, because White People sometimes think exactly what he said. That's not to say that you as a white individual think that, just that I as a black individual, and the rest of the Black People, know this. So stop trying to convince me he had a point. (Don't worry, Black People tend to think equally evil things about white individuals. See below.)

This is what’s so F'ed up about the victim mentality. Kramer did something dumb to do in public, but give me a break - if he works again it has nothing to do with people sharing his paradigm for looking at the world, but if they think he is funny and worth a few bucks. I feel sorry for people, black or otherwise who really think the white man has in it for them... that just isn’t the case. We as humans get mad, and say stupid stuff, regardless of race, had it been a white man he just as well may have said the guy was a homo or whatever, does that make all straight people out to get gays?

I don’t see many tears when Chris Rock starts on his cracker routine... because I'm not offended.. Its comedy not a entire race out to get me.

On another note I love how Kramer a noted liberal type does this and the reaction by the media is already turning to embrace him as a 'person in need of help' or other, its supposed to be the big bad GOP that hates..heh weeeee!