fighters with nonhuman partners

I had an idea similar to this that I think I might've talked to you about before. Basically, the idea was that humans used magic to combine with dragons. Both the human and the dragon would have to train so they could both be more powerful. My antagonist was a young man who found the egg of a legendary (and currently extinct) golden dragon.

The idea was from years ago and I never did much work on it, but I'm doing a lot of work on another idea dealing with people and dragons.

Yeah I do remember talking about that one. I remember your approach to dragons was a very mythic one while mine was a more anthropological one, and that's why they didn't mesh at all lol. I did one with shapeshifters long ago too, Gimmie Those Wings, although in that case the shapeshifters were the people.

In this case I want to look at the shapeshifters anthropologically, but as a contrast to the people - I'm interested in the biology and culture of the shifters as a nonhuman race interacting with a human race.

I think that many people who are interested in gamestory writing are also interested in drawing manga. Some may even discover that drawing is what they need or want.

I am interested. But what is your expectation of the group?

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Original post by Wai I think that many people who are interested in gamestory writing are also interested in drawing manga. Some may even discover that drawing is what they need or want. I am interested. But what is your expectation of the group?

Well, the idea is that each writer would create a few characters and tell their stories, and the individual characters' stories would weave together to fill in the framework of the overall plot. Some central characters, like the leader of the humans and the main villain, would have to be shared by the writers.

For example, one person likes writing combat so they would use the villain to send attackers at their characters. I like romance so I would have the villain kidnap one of my characters who would then get into a romance with him. The story as a whole would be produced as a webcomic, then printed and sold when enough material was produced to fill a graphic novel volume. Overall, the whole series would be comparable to Naruto or Bleach, but maybe a bit smaller and with less filler and a definite beginning and ending of each plot arc.

Because it's a collaborative project, any ideas anyone contributes become the group's property unless the group disbands - if that happens they revert to their originator. This is because if someone contributes a bunch of ideas then leaves, we can't have them deny us permission to use ideas we've already woven into the story. But assuming the person stays with the project, they would have the main say in what happens with their characters, and the group would vote on what happens with the overall story. Each writer would be expected to write the plot and dialogue for any characters they create and keep them consistent with what everyone else is writing.

I think that for an interesting story about shifters, there must be some constraints or rules about them. Otherwise they can do anything. Have you thought about the limitations?


An idea I've just got about limitation, is that the shifter can only shift if they mean to do no harm. The moment that a shifter acknowledges an harmful intention, they can no longer change shape. Even that or they would have to atone themselves before they can shift again. But it doesn't answer the limitation of what they can become.

The shifters are constrained by the fact that they have constant mass, that you have to practice any form you want to be able to shift into or any object you want to create by shapeshifting it, and by the fact that shapeshifters as a race are mostly pacifistic and lazy. The shapeshifter race is the one thing I developed fairly thoroughly before I started the project because I knew if there wasn't a strong logical idea behind them they would turn into a big mess. Here, I'll just paste the full project info here if you're interested.


Project Concept:
Probably you have all read/watched some sort of story where human-ish fighters have non-human partners. The partner might be a dragon, a mecha, an AI, a summonable spirit, a soul sword, or an internal demon/monster the human can transform into. In this particular case the nonhumans are shapeshifters which can be worn as armor by their human fighters and which also have healing abilities and limited empathy/telepathy. These shapeshifters are not just foozles but real characters; they are their own race with their own culture, lives, emotions, goals, and their own reasons for wanting to bond with a human. This will also be a school story in that one of the main settings is the military academy where young shifters and human fighters are trained and bond with each other.

The story will feature combat, power struggles, romance, humor, magic, and all the things which go on in a historical fantasy society. The manga will be the intertwined stories of several humans and shifters. Several writers will create characters and stories for those characters, and together we will create an overall plot which will provide a framework for these more personal stories.


Worldbuilding:
The planet is not earth, it is a fantasy world. The technology level is medieval plus some shapeshifting and magical abilities, so no guns or engines, but lots of swords, bows and arrows, claw/glove type weapons, and horses or a fantasy equivalent. The shapeshifters are another intelligent race that evolved there along with the humans (who aren't strictly human because they have some sort of magic powers). There are a lot fewer shapeshifters than humans, partly because the shifters do not naturally have gender or much sex drive.

All of the shapeshifters are associated with one cave, which is where they traditionally bear their young and where wounded or old ones go to rest. Historically, when humans realized the fighting value of being bonded with a shifter and also the vulnerability of the pacifistic shifters to humans who might kidnap or murder them, they surrounded the cave and built a dojo which evolved into a military academy. The current story time is the third generation after the two races started working together. There might be another population of shifters somewhere, but if so it is not yet known to these characters.

Currently all the young shifters, at least of this 'domesticated' population, get trained as shields, and the best young warriors of that country go to the academy to train as swords and then graduate into being in the army. Since there are fewer shields than swords not all swords bond with a shifter before graduation, or ever. (Thus a writer who isn't interested in the shapeshifters can use unbonded human fighters and civilians for their stories.) Also, since bonding is instinctual some shields never find a human who 'does it for them'.

Shifters cannot get smaller or larger, and they are fairly massive - at least 40 lbs, as much as 100 lbs. (They can take a human-sized appearance by making themselves hollow.) Shifters worn as body armor aren't heavy because they help do the moving, but they cannot be worn as small articles of jewelry or clothing. Instead a shifter not being worn as armor would normally wear a human or animal form and walk beside their sword. But, a shifter can make pieces of jewelry out of their body and the human can wear those for improved long distance communication with the shifter. Any shifter can heal any human, although some are much better at healing than others, and some shifters are much better at shapeshifting than others. Shapeshifting includes the ability to shift the shape of things besides the shifter's own body, and the healing ability is actually just a particular way of slightly shifting a human's shape.

Shifters are partially empathic/telepathic - which means that each shifter can hear the feelings of some humans, the ones who are on the right 'wavelength', and the humans must also be nearby. A shifter can only actually read the thoughts of a human they are bonded to or in the process of bonding to. Humans usually only get one shifter and because shifters are rare and picky about who they bond with many humans who want one don't have one. Also, a shifter bonds with a human because it feels that human needs them, a human who already has a shifter probably doesn't need a second. Having two is possible, but really unusual, such that only one or two characters have that. If there are two shifters the shifters should either be a mated pair or siblings.


Plot Ideas:
- The teenage characters in the academy have the usual coming of age issues, such as trying to balance what is expected of them, what they dream of doing, and what they actually have the ability to do.

- There are the usual conflicts of two racial groups living together - prejudice, conflicting traditions and philosophies, different biology, etc. Specifically the shapeshifters are more pacifistic and calm and the humans are more warlike and passionate. This means some of the shifters think the humans are attractively energetic or dangerous, but some of the shifters thing the humans are destructive and childish. Similarly, some of the humans think the shifters are loyal and gentle, while others think the shifters are weak and useless. Also, shifters do not naturally have gender or money, but the young shifters growing up among humans get interested in human things and may start to think of themselves as male or female, which bothers the old traditional shifters.

- The adults have all the problems adult fighters usually have: attacking enemies and difficult missions, struggling to improve themselves and move up the ranks, politics of who gets to decide the military's policy, issues with ethical use of force and guilt over being killers, marriage and children, loneliness, helping friends, revenge, money, pretty much anything.

In your description, did you use 'sword' to refer to a human fighter who has been trained and bond to an ss-shield?

I think that the army will use the shapeshifter (ss) as communication devices. So if you are in the standard army, you will have your ss-armor plus an ss-jewel in an insignia that all higher ranking soldiers of the standard army share.

SS-animals don't bleed, but how would one tell whether an object is a shapeshifter?

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Original post by orionx103 I had an idea similar to this that I think I might've talked to you about before. Basically, the idea was that humans used magic to combine with dragons. Both the human and the dragon would have to train so they could both be more powerful. My antagonist was a young man who found the egg of a legendary (and currently extinct) golden dragon. The idea was from years ago and I never did much work on it, but I'm doing a lot of work on another idea dealing with people and dragons.

Eragon? [lol]

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Original post by Wai In your description, did you use 'sword' to refer to a human fighter who has been trained and bond to an ss-shield? I think that the army will use the shapeshifter (ss) as communication devices. So if you are in the standard army, you will have your ss-armor plus an ss-jewel in an insignia that all higher ranking soldiers of the standard army share. SS-animals don't bleed, but how would one tell whether an object is a shapeshifter?

Yes I did, the graduates of the military school are called swords and bonded shapeshifters are called shields.

The shapeshifters don't like to give out jewels and even with the jewels the communication range is only a few hundred yards.

Shapeshifters can detect each other, and it might be possible to have a magical artifact which can detect a shapeshifter by touch, but other than that shapeshifters can't be detected. There are fewer than 200 shapeshifters in the whole country and of those only about half are bonded to human fighters, so they're like elite units, not the whole army.

How would a shapeshifter die, be killed or be wounded?

When a shield graduates, how many things can a typical shield transform into?

What is the official reason that the older shifters agree to have their younglings be trained to bond with humans?

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Original post by Wai How would a shapeshifter die, be killed or be wounded? When a shield graduates, how many things can a typical shield transform into? What is the official reason that the older shifters agree to have their younglings be trained to bond with humans?

Shifters live longer than humans, but do eventually die of natural causes. They can be killed by cutting them in half and preventing the pieces from reuniting, or they can be killed by electrocution or extreme heat or cold or if you catch them by surprise and they don't have time to switch to a stronger form dropping a really big rock on them might work. They also tend to lose motivation and just waste away if they aren't bonded to a human, or commit suicide if their human is killed.

A typical graduating shield has one human form, if bonded they have several armor forms, if not bonded they have several defensive forms involving coating themselves in diamond or making themselves reflective, maybe 3 animal forms including one which can fly, they can heal basic human injuries or keep a critically human alive inside them until they can get to a skilled healer, and they can produce water and ration bars for their human if they are stranded without supplies.

Shifters, being lazy and easy-going are very lassiez-faire about their children and pretty much let them do what they want, whether that's wander or go to the human school or bond with a human. The younglings themselves think humans are very interesting and dramatic. The human instructors coax them to come to school with rewards of storytelling, games, and toys for those who do well in class. The shifter instructors offer to teach the children how to take fun shapes, teach them how to help a hurting friend, and tell them funny things about humans and other weird animals. The shifters being partially empathic tend to be drawn to those few humans whose emotions they can sense, and if they feel that one of these really needs their help they will feel the instinctive urge to bond to that person.

I have more questions but the conversation was getting odd. I feel that I am asking in order to decide whether to collaborated, and I was not quite sure what there is to collaborate, since many concepts in your world building are set. Perhaps you could have posed this thread as an open ended game, by first giving the premises that you already have, and then ask:

Suppose that you are a new trainee of the academy, what abilities would you want your shapeshifter to have? What do you want the two of you to become?

Now, it seems necessary to ask what characters you already have. I think that you must already have many characters. I think this is the better way to set up the project in the beginning.

Imagine that it is the first day of class. What personality would you (your character and your shield-to-be) bring? Starting from this, I think that the story will be very intertwined without any unnecessary plot devices.

[Edited by - Wai on December 8, 2006 2:46:01 AM]

similar concept was developed in the book Next of kin, by Eric Frank Russel.
the idea of contributing stories from different writers on the same premise was done in SF series of books. cant remember name, but they were all about one, very dismal city.
shapeshifters also appear in Dune series. is there any similarity?

just my 0,02 Euros :-))

Quote:

Original post by Wai I have more questions but the conversation was getting odd. I feel that I am asking in order to decide whether to collaborated, and I was not quite sure what there is to collaborate, since many concepts in your world building are set. Perhaps you could have posed this thread as an open ended game, by first giving the premises that you already have, and then ask: Suppose that you are a new trainee of the academy, what abilities would you want your shapeshifter to have? What do you want the two of you to become? Now, it seems necessary to ask what characters you already have. I think that you must already have many characters. I think this is the better way to set up the project in the beginning. Imagine that it is the first day of class. What personality would you (your character and your shield-to-be) bring? Starting from this, I think that the story will be very intertwined without any unnecessary plot devices.

Oh, I should have explained better. The worldbuilding is mostly set, it is the characters and plot where the collaboration is taking place. The other collaborators are currently coming up with character ideas and plots for those characters.

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Original post by Borkhan similar concept was developed in the book Next of kin, by Eric Frank Russel. the idea of contributing stories from different writers on the same premise was done in SF series of books. cant remember name, but they were all about one, very dismal city. shapeshifters also appear in Dune series. is there any similarity? just my 0,02 Euros :-))

There have been many projects where multiple writers wrote stories in the same setting. Although this collaboration is more like the way a group of people cooperatively come up with story ideas for a soap opera or a series like star trek. Haven't heard of Next of Kin, I'll check that out, thanks. No particular similarity to the shapeshifters in Dune - probably most similar to the shapeshifters in Julie E Czerneda's _Beholder's Eye_, although still not exactly the same.

When a pair graduate, what rank would they be compared to other soldiers? Or perhaps I should ask, what is the condition to graduate? At what age does a trainee begin at the academy?

The way dojo usually works is that there is no fine line of 'graduation'. Do you know the ranking systems of dojos (like judo or kendo dojo?). Are there ranks before graduation? Are there ranks afterward?

For the training, besides human-shifter teamwork, do they also group with other trainees? Will teamwork between humans with shifters matter after graduation? What is the class size? How many trainees will graduate per year? How does the academic decide who to train and who to reject?

What is the state of the country? Is it actually at war?

How many characters do you already have? What are those character?

Really interesting, I like it.
A few questions:
A shifter and human combination, can they form more than just armor?
I am thinking along the lines of warped combinations of beast be it natural/mythical/infernal/celestial with a basic human structure such as in Bleach the child prodigy Captain Toushirou's Bankai forms a pair of giant wings made of ice and a long frosty tail to increase the natural fighting powers of the user. Another thought was perhaps using the shifter as a natural object such as a wave or a boulder to transport the sword at high speeds across terrain that would normally impede a human to allow the sword phenomenal tactical striking capabilities on the battlefield.

Will there be specialisations within the swords and the shifters at the academy to expand the conventional fighter idea? I am thinking along the lines of more variety of classes such as the more rougish warrior who specialises in stealth and brutal sneak attacks or maybe some kind of channeling mage that is able to enhance the metamorphic potential of their shield actively in combat (think the Bounto sort of doll relationship in Bleach).

Every writer has their own unique (or relatively) style. That could become an issue if you are attempting to maintain consistency of tone.
Would it be possible to view a sample to gauge exactly where this project is going and more importantly how stylistically others should be aiming towards their work sounding if they want to submit?

Is there a core cast of characters established such as dojo leaders, military high command or possible enemy nation of some sort?

Thanks for all the good questions guys, this is really helping me flesh out the setting! [smile] I'll answer both your questions together since they overlap a little:


Historically the school started out as a dojo, but at the time the story starts it has matured into a military academy. There is a standardized exam one must pass to graduate - or rather, 2 standardized exams, one for humans completing sword training and one for bonded human-shifter pairs completing sword and shield training (which is sort of like graduate school for those swords lucky enough to bond with a shield). Somewhere around 50 humans graduate to be swords each year, and 8-10 newly bonded pairs go through 'graduate school' each year.

The shifters themselves do not have a graduation exam, instead they (10-15 per year) go through a sort of puberty fever when they turn 20 that marks their physical maturity and the activation of their ability to bond with a human. At any point after this they can volunteer to join the army, apprentice with an older shifter who specializes in something they're interested in, start looking for a human to bond with or bond with a human they've already become friends with, or go on a journey, wandering around exploring the world.

Anyone joining the army straight out of school enters at the lowest rank, being given the safest and most annoying jobs and babysat by more experienced soldiers. The may be assigned in small teams so that they can learn together and be more easily supervised. A sword who is already in the army when he or she bonds with a shifter would retain their current rank and the shifter would be elevated to that rank.

Before graduation shifters have no rank except a general respect for those who can do impressive tricks and those who are older. The humans have basic ranks depending on how many years of the program they have completed, and within each year group there is dueling to establish a pecking order, those people who are the children or younger siblings of swords have a home field advantage over those who aren't, and also the usual highschool/college cliques, popularity contests, and issues with who has rich parents and who doesn't and who is lovers with who. I dunno about whether the students are assigned into long-term teams - I'll leave that to someone who wants to write a story involving students to decide.

Diversity among humans comes mainly from what weapon they prefer to use and whether they are good at magic, and if so what type of magic. There are 3 styles of weapon use: using a normal weapon, using a normal weapon coated in ki or reiatsu or whatever we decide to call their spiritual energy, and calling forth a weapon of pure spiritual energy. The academy is prejudiced against those who prefer to use magic instead of physical combat - both the entrance exam and the graduation exam require physical combat skills. Specialization is thus an issue of personal ability an preference, not an issue of having classes within the academy. There probably are nicknames for the different styles of fighting though. Are human magical energy and shifter energy compatible? Well, that's another thing I can leave to those who want to write combat to decide.

A shield (shifter bonded to a human) an indeed form itself into wings to make the human fly or a padded shell to protect a 'human cannonball'. The country is not actively at war, instead the surrounding area (where they don't have any shifters) is in a feudal or warring city-states period, where there are clans, fortresses, warlords, mages, bandits, alliance marriages, trade caravans, mercenaries, and all that sort of thing. So there's always some mission needing to be done but not that much bloodshed or death.

We are currently working to establish a core cast of characters but nothing is final yet. Myself I have an idea for a villain, an adult unbonded shifter, and a shifter who likes to play matchmaker. Another writer proposed the human military leader be a hardass woman general who has a bad relationship with her daughter and a male sword who is contemptuous of shifters.

Consistency of tone - what we are doing is each character will always have their dialogue written by one particular writer. The writers will work together to decide the overall plot, and the different writers' strands of the story will be woven together to create a fairly uniform texture. Plot-wise the tone of existing long mangas isn't that consistent, there are usually dramatic episodes and comic episodes and romantic episodes, so I think we'll be fine there as long as we weave them together evenly. I don't know what sort of sample I could show you - nothing for this project has been written yet.

Edit: Link removed, this project will be developed here instead.

[Edited by - sunandshadow on December 9, 2006 5:21:56 PM]