MMORPG

Legalese, using the "Sign contract with development studio." API (though you have to pay to use it, obviously).

If you insist on doing it yourself, on your own, using a language you already possibly know is better than learning a new language for the task. Almost any language will allow you to program a simple and small MMORPG, and industry MMORPGs are indeed written in a variety of different languages. I know some written in PHP, C#, C, C++ and Python (to name just a few).

you will get far too many different answers for this question

id say c++ but thats purely because i like c++

but simple answer is any language will be sutible, some use python, java, infact im sure ull find mmos in all languages

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Original post by ToohrVyk Legalese, using the "Sign contract with development studio." API (though you have to pay to use it, obviously). If you insist on doing it yourself, on your own, using a language you already possibly know is better than learning a new language for the task. Almost any language will allow you to program a simple and small MMORPG, and industry MMORPGs are indeed written in a variety of different languages.

What were you saying orginally about Lagelese?

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Original post by syncer What were you saying orginally about Lagelese?

Legalese is the english-like language used by lawyers when writing licenses, contracts and threat letters. If you wish to establish a contract to have a development studio write an MMORPG for you, then that contract will be written in legalese.

Alright here is the thing. I know it takes a lot of work and money to do MMORPG's. But I was wondering say I decide to start small and build up would that work? Secondly if I decide to use a specific language could I change it later on in the game?

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Original post by syncer But I was wondering say I decide to start small and build up would that work?

Yes, but it would still take a lot of work (not necessarily money, as bandwidth costs don't factor in as long as you remain small).

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Secondly if I decide to use a specific language could I change it later on in the game?

You can always change to a new language.

Obviously, this will require rewriting large portions of the game. However, even if you don't change to a new language, you will still have to rewrite large portions of the game, so it's largely irrelevant.

Two last questions.

What would be the projected time to get something like this from development to beta testing? And is it possible to do an MMORPG opensource? Since I would not be doing this through a studio?

No one can reasonably answer that question without you elaborating a lot on your development plans. I.e. size of the workforce... size of the project...

Just as an idea, if you weren't already aware - most 3D PC MMORPGs take a team of 50+ developers (programmers, artists, designers), several years to complete.

For 1 programmer to develop a MMORPG of similar ambitions by himself would take, at best close to a decade?

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Original post by syncer What would be the projected time to get something like this from development to beta testing?

Somewhere between "six months" (for a PHP/&#106avascript browser-based simple MMORPG) to "never" (for a World of Warcraft/Everquest/Eve Online/Ragnarok Online competitor).<br/><br/><!--QUOTE--><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><table border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" width="95%"><tr><td class="quote"><!--/QUOTE--><!--STARTQUOTE-->And is it possible to do an MMORPG opensource?<!--QUOTE--></td></tr></table></blockquote><!--/QUOTE--><!--ENDQUOTE--><br/><br/>Yes, it is. It's your code, you do whatever you want with it.<br/><br/>

Well I was talking about a team of about 5 developers plus adding more as it goes along. Say for instance I started with about five developers and started the MMORPG with just one location i.e a lounge, condo etc. Along with a couple of things to buy etc. As you said it would be almost impossible to tell for sure but could I be looking at something less then half a decade?

BTW I was talking about using the programing language C, C++ ETC.

No. You have the wrong ideal about how development effort scales and what "starting small and working your way up" means.

The number of locations you can be in in the MMO has very little actual impact on the effort involved in developing the game -- a well-designed and developed game will be data driven, and adding some new areas would be little more than building them in your level editor, connecting their entrance portals to the exit portals of existing zones, and pushing the content to your live server. You might need to scale up bandwidth costs at that point, since more zones generally implies more players (assuming a fixed maximum per zone), which generally means more network traffic.

However, in practice is it quite out impossible for homegrown hobby "MMOs" to actually achieve that first "M" (massive generally means thousands of players, you will likely never get that kind of popularity because you lack the marketing push and you can't compete with the big boys), so network scalability rarely becomes a problem, although writing code to handle it is one of the challenges.

Furthermore, if you're in the position to ask about "the best language" to write an MMO in, you're not in a position to lead a team of developers, period. It doesn't matter how many.

So if you want get to a point where you might actually have a shot at making a small, persistent-world online game (not a hugely impossible task), you should start by selecting a good language for somebody in your position -- C# would probably be my recommendation here -- and learning to use it to make some very simple games. Start with tic-tac-toe and other text-based games, then move on to using graphics APIs, and then move on to networking, and so on. Spend a few months honing your skills and getting some projects under your belt -- your belt, forget about a team -- and then revisit the idea of an "MMO" at a later date.

Thanks for the info. Since I am interested in C# and C+ where could I find some books that teaches it from beginners to intermediate level?

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Original post by syncer Two last questions. What would be the projected time to get something like this from development to beta testing? And is it possible to do an MMORPG opensource? Since I would not be doing this through a studio?

For an absolute pro, with a team of 3 (super coder, artist, manager+everything else), it has been proven to be doable in one year. Alas, I forgot the title of that game.

For a typical hobbyist team, 4-infinite years.

For a studio with usual team size (30-50), 3-never years. (never here happens when studio runs out of money).

For an established game development company, 2-4 years.

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However, in practice is it quite out impossible for homegrown hobby "MMOs" to actually achieve that first "M" (massive generally means thousands of players, you will likely never get that kind of popularity because you lack the marketing push and you can't compete with the big boys), so network scalability rarely becomes a problem, although writing code to handle it is one of the challenges.

AAA 3D MMORPG - yes. MMO - no.

Some of the big hits in MMO market in recent years came from individual developers who made a fun game.

But they are not the games people label with MMORPG, although they often fit the formal description. But it doesn't mean they don't support hundreds of thousands, or even millions of users.

What is the best car to go shopping in? WHo knows. I use c++ but then I'm not writing an MMO anything, I'm writing a 3rd person shooter.

Write a top down RPG and do it in python. If your ready for writing an MMORPG then surely you will finish a top down RPG in a few days.

You could start a team without advanced knowledge in C++. i do have basic knowledge in the area and its expanding so if I were to put a team togather I think I might be able to pull it off on an MMO not MMORPG.

I assure you our problem isn't with the "RPG" part of "MMORPG". You're utterly delusional if you think you can build a large-scale system capable of supporting thousands of users with newbie programming talent and a strewn-together Internet team.

jpetrie is completely right here; go back and read what he said instead of blowing him off and looking for help on learning "C+".

Perhaps it would be possible for you to instead write a simple multiplayer game that supports 4-8 players.

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Original post by Ravuya I assure you our problem isn't with the "RPG" part of "MMORPG". You're utterly delusional if you think you can build a large-scale system capable of supporting thousands of users with newbie programming talent and a strewn-together Internet team. jpetrie is completely right here; go back and read what he said instead of blowing him off and looking for help on learning "C+". Perhaps it would be possible for you to instead write a simple multiplayer game that supports 4-8 players.

Maybe you misunderstood my quote. I'm not about to try and pull of an MMORPG becasue as jpetrie rightly said it would be impossible but if I did something like what you said a small RPG I could pull it off.

So I am asking if I decided to try an RPG starting with less then 50 playes would that be possible?

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So I am asking if I decided to try an RPG starting with less then 50 playes would that be possible?

No, you're still looking at scalability the wrong way again. It's not about the number of players; that doesn't contribute to the difficulty nearly as much as the baseline tech does (relative to your apparent experience level).

Have you made tic-tac-toe? Have you made a Tetris clone? Unless the answer to both of these is "yes," you need to be able to do that first before you give any consideration to multiplayer RPGs. And if you have made both of them, I have plenty of other suggestions for projects you could work on to further refine your skills to the point where you can tackle multiplayer stuff.

But frankly, you're asking impossible questions. Whether or not you can pull off any kind of game at all is not something we can tell you; we don't know nearly enough about you or your skillset, we have only the impressions we get from your post.

Go download Visual C# Express from Microsoft's website, and poke around in the C# Workshop on this forum or in the C# learning materials on Microsoft's website, and start learning to program. Start doing something, instead of fidgiting and biting your nails and nervously glancing left and right, shifting your weight around in agitation like a small child who needs to go and can't seem to find a bathroom. It's not productive.

I have downloaded C++ and been using for some time now. My problem is not learning it. I am wondering if I should decide to learn a whole new programming code for something that might not be successful.