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"Political Capital" in a turn-based grand strategy game

Started by dbaumgart Dec 14, 2007 at 12:51 PM 3 replies 3.9k views
Original Post
dbaumgart
dbaumgart
The idea is this: You're playing a Civilization/Europa Universalis-like turn-based strategy game. To influence your country/nation/state (I'll call it "polity" from now on) you have to spend "political capital" in the form of what I'm now going to call "command points" because I don't like the phrase "political capital". Or maybe it should be "Executive Actions". For example: I need stronger armies so I click an option which passes a law which requires peasants to train at archery on Sundays at the cost of, say, 1 command point out of the 3 I generated in the last turn. Then I use my other command points to raise the import tax on liquor and re-route my Grand Armee to raid the hinterlands of some worthless neighboring duchy. But it'd possibly suck if this was all the player could do in a turn when there were other pressing issues to attend to, so: Once the player runs out of command points (CPs), they can still make executive decisions -- but they these actions start pissing people off (more?). So the amount of CPs a player has represents how much politicking they're able to accomplish to push through their decisions in the period of time a turn represents, then after that it starts to cost the player in the form of creating rebellion, corruption, inefficiency, etc. An example that prompted this idea comes from Paradox's "Victoria": The Russian Empire is always overpowered in the hands of a human player because it's huge, populous, and the player is given free reign to enact liberal reforms. Historically Russia was terribly backwards because the established aristocracy wanted to maintain their feudal rule by keeping the peasants ignorant and bound to the land. Meanwhile, in-game, the player wants to get as much power as possible by educating the peasants and sending them to work in factories to build weapons and cheap furniture with no regard for the wishes of the aristocrats. If a Czar had actually attempted such sweeping modernization and reforms they'd have run into enormous opposition by the classes which actually controlled the wealth and power of Russia -- if reforms happened, they would happen slowly, and there'd be a lot of resistence, corruption, and unrest. And as it turns out there actually were a few revolutions in Russia. So I want to introduce a mechanic to encourage the player to pander to the ruling class or suffer the consequences -- things the ruling class likes cost less CPs and cause less unrest when out of CPs, doing things the establishment doesn't like costs more CPs and causes more unrest when out of CPs, and pandering to their whims increases CP regeneration. So this limits the player's power over their own polity but hopefully it does so in terms of the game's fiction (rather than as a heavy-handed abstract mechanic). In other words the player is role-playing the leader of their polity and must act within the restraints a leader would have on them. Would this all be too annoying? I read that a similar system was going to be used in Master of Orion 3 but it was scrapped because it didn't work out for some reason. Then again the whole game didn't "work out", so who knows. Do you have any suggestions for modifying this system? Should they be called "command points", "executive actions", or something else? Any other ideas? I want to implement such a system in the strategy game I'm making (see my journal if you like, though I haven't started building gameplay yet) and I want it to be simple, straightforward, and central to gameplay, so like Command Points should be the primary "resource" because this is a game of political rule.
nordwindranger
nordwindranger
I like "Executive actions".
I think it's a pretty cool way of simulating the rush in popularity that rulers can get and use to enact their policies before their policies go down again. (think iraq war after 911 attacks).

It certainly has the possibility of becoming overpowering, but if you make it hard to get these points, even having a couple will feel very rewarding. Maybe you could store them up?
Edtharan
Edtharan
I have been working on a similar system, although I called mine "influence" and didn't have the overspending rules (which is a great idea actually).

My use is more like Money (as it is designed for a multiplayer environment) where you can "trade" influence points for favours. Mainly this is going to be part of the mechanic to create a feudal system (you trade some of your influence points to your Lord for their protection and because they have more influence points, they can make expensive influence decisions - like going to war, etc).
dbaumgart
dbaumgart
Nordwindranger:
I'm starting to like "Executive Action Points" (or something) more, too. It sounds cool and won't be confused with all of the tactical games that use "command points" to mean various other things.

A boost in points after being attacked, the more the 'infamy of the day' the more the points, is a great idea. It gives the defender the advantage of political flexibility to deal with an attack rather than giving a boring +25% defense bonus or something.

Edtharan:
The currency metaphor is quite apt, and could probably even be taken literally to some degree with this -- basically, if you bribe/pay people, they'll let you do stuff.

I also like the idea of having some kind of feudal hierarchy, though I'm not sure how it would interact with the system I'm proposing exactly. This kinda leads to the idea of, say, "Diplomatic Action Points" which can be used in foreign affairs (which might include manipulating vassals/lords) -- like spend some DAPs to Powell up a casus belli against your neighbor in the equivalent of the UN.


I was also discussing this idea with a friend yesterday and he thinks that the player should get points with each social class. So like if this is a medieval-ish game there'd be peasants, bourghers, and nobles. Every action would alter favor and earn EAPs to some degree with each class, and these can be used to curry favors from classes, so if you've got a lot of Peasant EAPs, you could call up the mob to attack some enemies -- or levy new taxes with no ill effects.

Differently structured polities may have different classes, so a theocracy may have a priesthood class instead of nobility, or slaves or proles instead of peasants in the lower class, and the demands of the classes would be different as appropriate. And then, if this is a fantasy world (and it is), there could be fantasy classes with rather atypical political needs, like "The Orcs demand more baby roasts!", or something.
Edtharan
Edtharan
Quote:
A boost in points after being attacked, the more the 'infamy of the day' the more the points, is a great idea. It gives the defender the advantage of political flexibility to deal with an attack rather than giving a boring +25% defense bonus or something.

I like that. At first I though why not just reduce the costs of certain actions, but then I realised that this is just the +25% defence in disguise. It would give a little more flexability, but it would really create dominent choices that the player would have to take.

Giving a general bonus means that a player can use more flexable actions and even persue quite interesting strategies. What If a player starts a way with someone, just so they can get a few more points and therefore sneak some actions through without getting the penalties? Does this remind you of certain recent events?

Quote:
I also like the idea of having some kind of feudal hierarchy, though I'm not sure how it would interact with the system I'm proposing exactly.

Basicaly the system I am developing (use it if you like) is that you give some of these "Influence" points (or "Executive Action Points" if you will) to your superior. This is the exchange that defines the aliance/hirachy.

Of course, your superior has to use them to help protect you as if they didn't then there would be no reason for you to say allied with them. In effect the points were to be a kind of tax that could represent anything from food, to troops, to land, to personal service.

If your lord needed you to do something, they could then trade "points" with you for it. Th Points were to be an Abstract representation of services and payments whatever form they actually took.

Quote:
The currency metaphor is quite apt, and could probably even be taken literally to some degree with this -- basically, if you bribe/pay people, they'll let you do stuff.

I initially was going to use "Money" as the trade medium, but I found that it didn't really fit with the feel of the game or cover everything I wanted it to do. I wanted the trade medium to be more abstract than an actual currency, and that you couldn't "Store it" (well not directly, you will be able to purchace things with it that can be stored and traded).

The feel is to be less of the Merchant/Mercenary and more of the Political feel and just using Money didn't fee right.

Basically, a bribe, in this game will not be just Money, but it might be with a political favour (helping to make your action pass any political obstacles), helping to supress rebelion to the action, or anything. I wanted the player to use their imaginations more and so I whent for the more abstract concept (money, good, and services can all still exist, but the basic economy will be with the Influence Points).

Quote:
I was also discussing this idea with a friend yesterday and he thinks that the player should get points with each social class. So like if this is a medieval-ish game there'd be peasants, bourghers, and nobles.

I though about this in my game too, but I am a bit abivelent about it. I can't quite place my finger on the reason that I don't like it, but for some reason it doesn't quite fit with my conclept. It might work for yours, but for mine, I don't think I will include it.

Quote:
Differently structured polities may have different classes, so a theocracy may have a priesthood class instead of nobility, or slaves or proles instead of peasants in the lower class, and the demands of the classes would be different as appropriate. And then, if this is a fantasy world (and it is), there could be fantasy classes with rather atypical political needs, like "The Orcs demand more baby roasts!", or something.

This is why I went for the abstract (and I suppose it is why I don't want individual rateing for each internal group). Once you start making it less abstrsact, you wind up needed lots of individual things just to handle any posibility. The more concrete you make it the more complexity that is in it and the harder it is to cover all uses (so player will want to do something and not be able to do it).

Myself, I am more inclined to trust the players' creativity to come up with the speciifcs of what the "Influence"/"Executive Action" points do. Playaers who aren't interested in such things (the number crunchers) would ignore whatever you called them anyway, and those who do use their imaginations would benifit from a more abstract approach which gives their imaginations free reign.

The only reasons you would need to be more concrete about such things would be if you were trying to build a simulation (playing simulations can be fun), or that you were trying to evoce a very specific experience in the players (like playing the head of a theocratic society). Both of these are quite valid reasons.

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