Baseball Primer

Quote:

- What match is expected to be more exciting, LA vs. Philadelphia or Milwaukee?

Please don't use exciting and baseball in the same post.

If you want to experience the culture of baseball, by the cheap seats (center field), and spend the extra money on beer.

Quote:

Original post by ChurchSkiz Quote: - What match is expected to be more exciting, LA vs. Philadelphia or Milwaukee? Please don't use exciting and baseball in the same post. If you want to experience the culture of baseball, by the cheap seats (center field), and spend the extra money on beer.

I don't think that's entirely fair. Baseball can be just as exciting as any sport, it just depends where you are. Many Red Sox games I have been to were much more exciting and energetic to watch at the stadium (even non Sox vs Yankees games) than American Football and Basketball games I have attended.

It really depends upon the crowd, and that being said, LA is an excellent area to watch baseball games, as they have an excellent fan base. That being said, I'd probably go to a Phillies game rather than a Brewers game, as the Phillies are last years NL East Champs, and have a better shot atm than the Brewers for getting into the playoffs.

As for when to go, Friday-Sunday will give you a bigger crowd (Brewers), but the weekdays will most likely give you a shot at better tickets. Be sure to try the Dodger Dog while you are there. Generally, the closer the seats to the field, the better, and typically in baseball, many of the die hard fans sit in the bleachers (or in this case, the left and right field pavillions).

Anyways, enjoy your game.

The Phillies, definetly. They have some great hitters and a decent pitching staff, which is certain to make for a better game then the Brewers.

Quote:

Please don't use exciting and baseball in the same post.

Which is what everyone says if they don't know about what makes baseball a great and exciting sport.

The greatest things about a ballgame are very small and subtle. Baseball really is a game of inches and angles. I get excited for every two strike count, every opposite field basehit, every double play. When a pitcher is behind in the count and still gets the hitter to swing at a bad pitch and hit into a routine infield play, that's great. Diving catches, robbed homers, 9th inning ties, every little thing in baseball has excitement if you know what your watching.

No matter who you go watch, just keep your fingers crossed for a good game and you'll have a great time.

Quote:

Original post by Nahoopii The Phillies, definetly. They have some great hitters and a decent pitching staff, which is certain to make for a better game then the Brewers. Quote: Please don't use exciting and baseball in the same post. Which is what everyone says if they don't know about what makes baseball a great and exciting sport. The greatest things about a ballgame are very small and subtle. Baseball really is a game of inches and angles. I get excited for every two strike count, every opposite field basehit, every double play. When a pitcher is behind in the count and still gets the hitter to swing at a bad pitch and hit into a routine infield play, that's great. Diving catches, robbed homers, 9th inning ties, every little thing in baseball has excitement if you know what your watching. No matter who you go watch, just keep your fingers crossed for a good game and you'll have a great time.

One of the things I like best about baseball, which none of the other sports can really match...

Let's take the Dodgers & Phillies even. August 21, 1990. Down 11-3 in the 9th inning (the last inning of baseball). A score that's almost guaranteed to be a blowout and a game over. The Phillies scored 9 runs to come back and win.

This is not equivalent to college football, the Texas Tech vs Minnesota game where TTU came back from 31 pts down, as they had 30 minutes to do so. Nor the NFL's AFC Buffalo Houston comeback, where they had 30 minutes to overcome a 28 pt lead. Nor in basketball where the Celtics overcame a 28 pt deficit, but had 12 minutes to overcome it and beat the Nets.

We're not talking half the game to go, nor even 1/4th of the game to go. We're talking 1/9th of the game to go. We're talking scoring 40+ pts in football with under 7 minutes to go.

As long as you don't make the last out, the game still continues. You can't just run out the clock to force a win.

As Yogi Berra stated, "It's not over until it's over."

@Stereo - I'm a typical European baseball ignorant.

How much do you know about the rules of the game? Here's a quick run down.

There are 9 innings in a game, extra innings if the game is tied. An inning consists of an "at bat" for each team. It takes 3 outs to send the team "at bat"* back into the field. There are numerous ways for the team in the field to make an out. The most common are "strike outs" and "fly balls". A fly ball happens when the batter hits the ball into the outfield where it's caught before it hits the ground. A strike out happens when a batter gets three strikes against him. There are several different ways for a pitcher to get a strike. The most straight forward way is when the batter swings at a pitch and misses. It's also a strike if the batter doesn't swing at a pitch and the ball crosses over home plate at a height roughly between the batter's knees and shoulders. This area is known as "the strike zone". If the batter doesn't swing and the pitch isn't in the strike zone, it's called "a ball". If the pitcher throws 4 balls, it's called a "walk" and the batter gets to go to first base. If the pitcher hits the batter with the ball, it's called "a bean ball", and the batter gets to go to first base. If the batter hits the ball into the field of play, he then must run to first base before the team in field can get the ball there. That is, the batter has to beat the ball to first base. The batter doesn't have to stop at first base. He can try to make it to second or third base but the attempt comes with greater risk of getting out, that is, of not beating the ball to the base. Once a batter makes it to a base, he's called a "runner" instead and the next player to bat is called the batter. A runner is only "safe" when he's touching a base. If the team in field is able to touch a runner with the ball when he's not touching a base, the runner is ruled out. If the batter hits the ball beyond the outfield, it's called a "home run" and the batter gets to run the bases without contest from the team in the field. Runs are scored when a player completes a circuit through the bases. The team with the most runs at the end wins.

Needless-to-say, I've left out a whole lot! You might want to review the rules before you go to the game.


I'd go with the Phillies too. Another thing to buy in addition to beer and dodger dogs is peanuts in the shell (if you're not allergic). Baseball is a pastoral game with a laconic pace, so it's good to have something to do with your hands that goes well with sitting and watching.

Other things to do in Los Angeles? Universal Studios, the walk of stars, Santa Monica pier, shopping on Melrose ...

// edit - I also forgot Disneyland and Knott's Berry Farm - and if you really like rollercoasters, Magic Mountain.

* this should be "turn at bat"


[Edited by - LessBread on May 5, 2008 1:03:45 AM]

Quote:

The greatest things about a ballgame are very small and subtle. Baseball really is a game of inches and angles. I get excited for every two strike count, every opposite field basehit, every double play. When a pitcher is behind in the count and still gets the hitter to swing at a bad pitch and hit into a routine infield play, that's great. Diving catches, robbed homers, 9th inning ties, every little thing in baseball has excitement if you know what your watching.

I like those things too, i just don't like having to die of boredom waiting for it all to happen. In a world of 15 second attention spans, it is no wonder baseball is a dying sport.

Throw a strike, wait.........
throw a ball, wait........
throw a strike, wait........
throw a ball, wait......
foul ball, wait.........
foul ball, wait..........
throw a ball, wait........
foul ball, wait.......
grounder, out at first, wait for next batter.....

repeat for 3 hours

If the pitcher had a bucket of balls and just threw them right after each other I might be more interested.

I doubt anyone that is not a fan of the game since childhood will ever find watching the game exciting.

ChurchSkiz how many major league games have you gone to?

I understand how a televised game could be considered unexciting, but going a game in person - especially a major league game - is a completely different experience.

Quote:

Original post by LessBread ChurchSkiz how many major league games have you gone to? I understand how a televised game could be considered unexciting, but going a game in person - especially a major league game - is a completely different experience.

Probably 15 or so (with another 15 or so minor league games). When I was a kid I thought it was exciting not because of the game but because of the stadium, the hot dogs, the drunk adults. As I got older, I realized that I could get the same thing and watch an intense game at the same time. Cue Hockey.....

I'll still go to a baseball game given the opportunity, but I never show up before the 3rd inning, and I hardly ever pay attention to the game. It's more about the social aspect of hanging out, drinking a few beers, and making fun of crazies.

Quote:

Original post by ChurchSkiz Probably 15 or so (with another 15 or so minor league games). When I was a kid I thought it was exciting not because of the game but because of the stadium, the hot dogs, the drunk adults. As I got older, I realized that I could get the same thing and watch an intense game at the same time. Cue Hockey..... I'll still go to a baseball game given the opportunity, but I never show up before the 3rd inning, and I hardly ever pay attention to the game. It's more about the social aspect of hanging out, drinking a few beers, and making fun of crazies.

Did you ever play baseball? As a kid? In high school?

If you have ever played the game to a high level, high school or beyond, you begin to appreciate the fine details of the game and understand that there is far more going on then simply what you perceive on the field.

I've been to hundreds of games in my life and I recently began to bring a score book with me to the games. This forces me to pay attention, but it also lets me understand further the decisions the managers have to make. There are just so many complexities to the game. I love it.

//Edit - Oh, and I'd definitely recommend the Phillies, I don't know the schedule but if you can get a chance to see Cole Hamels pitch you'll be in for a treat, he's a real talent and a local to Southern California.

Quote:

Original post by ChurchSkiz Quote: Original post by LessBread ChurchSkiz how many major league games have you gone to? I understand how a televised game could be considered unexciting, but going a game in person - especially a major league game - is a completely different experience. Probably 15 or so (with another 15 or so minor league games). When I was a kid I thought it was exciting not because of the game but because of the stadium, the hot dogs, the drunk adults. As I got older, I realized that I could get the same thing and watch an intense game at the same time. Cue Hockey..... I'll still go to a baseball game given the opportunity, but I never show up before the 3rd inning, and I hardly ever pay attention to the game. It's more about the social aspect of hanging out, drinking a few beers, and making fun of crazies.

Aside from the bit about hockey I can relate.

Quote:

there is far more going on then simply what you perceive on the field.

I find it pretty ridiculous that the sport's greatest strength is that I can't perceive what is going on.

News flash: fans of any sport in existence will go on and on about the finer intricacies of what is happening that other sport fans just "don't understand". The difference between baseball and everything else is that other sports are entertaining regardless, whereas baseball is more about having a chat with your friends while you wait for something to actually happen. Hey talking with your friends and eating expensive hot dogs is all well in good but I can't say it's what I look for in a sport.

Quote:

Original post by LockePick Quote: there is far more going on then simply what you perceive on the field. I find it pretty ridiculous that the sport's greatest strength is that I can't perceive what is going on. News flash: fans of any sport in existence will go on and on about the finer intricacies of what is happening that other sport fans just "don't understand". The difference between baseball and everything else is that other sports are entertaining regardless, whereas baseball is more about having a chat with your friends while you wait for something to actually happen. Hey talking with your friends and eating expensive hot dogs is all well in good but I can't say it's what I look for in a sport.

How are other sports more interesting?

Personally, I find American football to be the most boring sport (NASCAR and Golf I consider activities, not sports). Watching 15 seconds which consists of running for 5 yards or passing for 10, only to have to sit through 2 mins of commercials afterwards.

The second most boring sport to me is a tie between hockey and soccer. Watching a puck/ball be passed between, with no clue why no one is actually trying to do advance.

I'll admit I find basketball to be a more faster pace than baseball, but it doesn't mean I find it more entertaining. With each of the above sports, the commercials really kill my attitude towards it. At least with baseball, you know when the breaks occur, and can plan occordingly.

All the sports are more entertaining because of friends, it's not just baseball. And I wouldn't necessarily state that baseball has more intricacies than any other sport. But we each have different preferences in what we consider exciting.

Quote:

Original post by LockePick News flash: fans of any sport in existence will go on and on about the finer intricacies of what is happening that other sport fans just "don't understand". The difference between baseball and everything else is that other sports are entertaining regardless, whereas baseball is more about having a chat with your friends while you wait for something to actually happen. Hey talking with your friends and eating expensive hot dogs is all well in good but I can't say it's what I look for in a sport.

Cricket has essentially the same sort of appeal as baseball; it's got a whole bunch of strategy involved that's hard to get unless you're well versed in the sport. And it's also nice to listen to when you're on a long car journey between Aussie towns.

That's one reason why I find it amusing when baseball and cricket fans get into a slanging match on an international forum about which sport is "boring". Although admittedly cricket does have an edge for local games with your mates in the park. You can have fun with a friendly hit with cricket with only a handful of people. I'm not sure what the minimum you'd need on the field for a modified friendly game of baseball.

By the way, how long does an American baseball match go for?

Thank you so much for helping me make up my mind! I highly appreciate that!

I'm really looking forward to having a great time in L.A. and a Dodgers game will definitely be one of the highlights! With your assistance - LessBread in particular, thank you for your rundown of the rules! - I'll actually be able to follow the game and will hopefully cheer at the right time. :D

So, L.A. vs. Philadelphia it will be! Thursday evening is great anyway because that day the SIGGRAPH Job Fair ends and no one will mind if I look wasted on Friday anyway, heh.

Quote:

Original post by Nytegard Personally, I find American football to be the most boring sport (NASCAR and Golf I consider activities, not sports). Watching 15 seconds which consists of running for 5 yards or passing for 10, only to have to sit through 2 mins of commercials afterwards. The second most boring sport to me is a tie between hockey and soccer. Watching a puck/ball be passed between, with no clue why no one is actually trying to do advance. I'll admit I find basketball to be a more faster pace than baseball, but it doesn't mean I find it more entertaining. With each of the above sports, the commercials really kill my attitude towards it. At least with baseball, you know when the breaks occur, and can plan occordingly.

Although I obviously can't comment on baseball yet, I have to agree that watching American football on TV can be boring at times because of all the advertisements and little breaks. But I wouldn't say that it's the most boring sport to watch, which would be either tennis or the Formula 1, if you ask me.

I used to play tennis myself and really enjoyed it, but I can't imagine going to a match, sitting in the sun for hours and constantly moving my head form the left to the right and back. Although there have been great matches in the past - and Austria's not that bad actually - the game is just plain boring most of the time.

Formula 1 on the other hand used to be great when I was younger especially because of engine failures, crashes and risky take overs. Nowadays a lot of rules are in place to limit those aspects of the sport and make it "safer". It's pretty much become a live stream from a circular highway with a bunch of people trapped on the track in their fast cars. The only thing that is missing would be speed control by the police. ;)

Quote:

Original post by Stereo Thank you so much for helping me make up my mind! I highly appreciate that! I'm really looking forward to having a great time in L.A. and a Dodgers game will definitely be one of the highlights! With your assistance - LessBread in particular, thank you for your rundown of the rules! - I'll actually be able to follow the game and will hopefully cheer at the right time. :D So, L.A. vs. Philadelphia it will be! Thursday evening is great anyway because that day the SIGGRAPH Job Fair ends and no one will mind if I look wasted on Friday anyway, heh.

If you REALLY want to get into the game, I saw two books at the book store the other day:

Watching Baseball Smarter: A Professional Fan's Guide for Beginners, Semi-experts, and Deeply Serious Geeks
Baseball Field Guide: An In-Depth Illustrated Guide to the Complete Rules of Baseball

Baseball does have wait periods before every action, but A LOT is going on during those wait periods. As others have said, the more versed you are in the game, the more you can get out of it.

For those who find baseball boring, I'd suggest learning more about the game (get those books). Getting excited during a baseball game is about the anticipation of the drama that is about to unfold, but you can only anticipate the drama if you can understand the strategy and thinking that is occurring each pitch.

I venture to say it can be the most complicated sport that requires the most balanced of athletes in terms of physical and mental stength and gritty competitors who know how to deal with failure. In no other sport can you fail 70% of the time and still be considered for the Hall of Fame. That says something about its difficulty.

Quote:

Original post by Trapper Zoid By the way, how long does an American baseball match go for?

Baseball is far shorter than most versions of cricket, outside of Twenty20.

The length of the game depends on a lot. The scoring, the amount of baserunners, pitching changes, etc. But as of 2004, the average length is about 2 hours 45 mins. Certain teams also seem to play longer games than others. Also, 7th inning stretch, whether the game is nationally televised, etc, can all add to the time of a game.

Without taking rain delays, etc. into consideration, the longest game of baseball took slightly over 8 hours to play, and the shortest was about 50 mins.

Quote:

Original post by Nytegard The second most boring sport to me is a tie between hockey and soccer. Watching a puck/ball be passed between, with no clue why no one is actually trying to do advance. I'll admit I find basketball to be a more faster pace than baseball, but it doesn't mean I find it more entertaining. With each of the above sports, the commercials really kill my attitude towards it. At least with baseball, you know when the breaks occur, and can plan occordingly.

Soccer is the best sport when it comes to commercials. Since there are no time outs in the game, there are no commercial interruptions. Basketball is frustrating, imo, because right when one team gets momentum going, the other calls a time out and the network switches to a commercial. As for football, they break for commercials so it's a total bust by that measure. I didn't use to like watching tennis, but I caught most of last years' US Open. There were some great matches. I got a thing for Maria Sharapova.

@stereo, you're welcome for the run down, but check out a more complete telling of the rules as I left out a lot - foul balls, pickles, double plays and more.

If you've got a lot of time, check out Ken Burns great documentary on baseball. The local PBS station here reran it a couple of months back a few Sundays running (the whole thing is 18 hours long). One thing I learned watching it - which surprised me to find out - was that baseball's roots in Japan predate WWII. I had thought that it was something that GI's passed on to the Japanese during the occupation, but it turns out that kids there were playing it in the 1930's.

Here's a snippet of text from that link that tells the story of the Dodgers (in brief):

Quote:

In 1909, a man named Charles Hercules Ebbets began secretly buying up adjacent parcels of land in the Flatbush section of Brooklyn, including the site of a garbage dump called Pigtown because of the pigs that once ate their fill there and the stench that still filled the air. He hoped eventually to build a permanent home for the lackluster baseball team he had once worked for and now owned. The team was called the Trolley Dodgers, or just the Dodgers, after the way their devoted fans negotiated Brooklyn's busy streets. In 1912, construction began. By the time it was completed a year later, Pigtown had been transformed into Ebbets Field — baseball's newest shrine, where some of the game's greatest drama would take place. In the years to come, Dodger fans would see more bad times than good, but hardly care, listen to the southern cadences of a pioneer broadcaster, and witness first-hand baseball's finest moment — when a black man wearing the number 42 trotted out to first base. In 1955, after more than four decades of frustration, Brooklyn would finally win a world championship, only to know, two years later, the ultimate heartbreak, as their team moved to a new city, 3,000 miles away, leaving an empty shell in Flatbush that eventually became an apartment building, and an even emptier spot in the soul of every Brooklyn fan. ...

At the moment I don't have a lot of time because I'm trying to get my Master's thesis finished. But this sport really got me hooked and I'll try to get my hands on that documentary soon! One of the books might also become part of my "entertainment pack" for the 10h flight.

"Notes from a Big Country" by Bill Bryson is a book I've finished recently. Good read! There's a chapter about baseball and the Chicago Cubs in particular. Bryson declares himself as a Cubs fan but mentions that the team has never made it into the World Series in the last 50 years. Are they really that unlucky or involved in some conspiracy to uphold a questionable tradition? :-)

Anyways, thanks for all the catering of baseball insights!