Pedophiles Halloween crackdown

I'm not really sure what I think is right in this case, but comparing it to how the Jews were treated in Nazi Germany isn't really fair. And although people can change their behaviour, they usually can not change inherent properties, such as sexuality. Of course, it has not yet been scientifically determined how pedophilia arises, so we'll have to wait and see what science unravels in the future. But from the little I've read on the subject, it seems to be an inherent behaviour.

There's workarounds

It's not actually US wide, it's on a state by state basis. In any case, I personally have no problem with someone who raped a five year old to be punished for all eternity. On the other hand, someone who had consensual sex with a seventeen year old when they were nineteen gets treated the same under most of these laws, and I don't really think that's right.

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Original post by Toolmaker Now, I understood that society wants to protect their children from sexual predators, but isn't this getting out of hand? I mean, these people already under went their punishment and are put on display publicly in a sex offender register.

Registries are extensions of the idea "once a sex offender, always a sex offender". Despite the supposedly Christian nature of the United States, these days few Christians still believe in the possibility of redemption. Joe the Prison Guard has replaced Christ the Redeemer.

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Original post by Omid Ghavami I'm not really sure what I think is right in this case, but comparing it to how the Jews were treated in Nazi Germany isn't really fair. And although people can change their behaviour, they usually can not change inherent properties, such as sexuality. Of course, it has not yet been scientifically determined how pedophilia arises, so we'll have to wait and see what science unravels in the future. But from the little I've read on the subject, it seems to be an inherent behaviour.

You're equating sexuality with behavior. This is clearly false, as evidenced by the fact that virgins of various sexualities exist.

There's nothing about pedophilia that implies any wrongdoing, so even if pedophilia is inherent, it does not follow that behavior cannot be changed.

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Original post by LessBread Registries are extensions of the idea "once a sex offender, always a sex offender". Despite the supposedly Christian nature of the United States, these days few Christians still believe in the possibility of redemption. Joe the Prison Guard has replaced Christ the Redeemer.

Believing in redemption is very convenient if one also believes that the redemption in question can come from a priest and/or the stocks. Believing that redemption can come from twice-weekly meetings, sponsorship, and careful supervision is a little more realistic, but the public face of punishment (for good reason) is still the stocks, and I think people don't put too much trust in them these days.

I am stunned by some of the comments in this thread. I put it down to immaturity or lack of real world experience.
I am guessing few of you have kids either.

The fact that any convicted pedophile has not been simply shot in the head is a blessing (for them) IMO.
If I had my way..... enough said.

If they have been given the opportunity to be part of society again and have chosen to live in a place where their past may be considered a risk (however small) to innocents (re. Kids, Halloween, easy access and temptation) then some kind of monitoring, or other inconvenience or embarrassment to them is nothing compared to what they have done in the past.

Especially when you consider that convicted criminals in the US and UK have a heck of a time getting work and finding somewhere to live anyway... And that's for crimes far less heinous than child molesting. I have far more time for someone who stole food to feed their family, or got busted smoking some dope... But it seems that our liberal society finds these people less acceptable than 'poor, sick' kiddie fiddlers! Unbelievable!

There are obviously the implications of public vigilante actions when they are exposed, and for that matter this kind of home badging is misguided. But having said that if they are on a public register then that is out the window, and letting parents (that don't have the time to check the register every day) know by putting a sign on a house that is already in the public record is a non-issue IMO. Far better overall to have controlled and monitored housing for them. One day we'll realize how expensive this is and perhaps introduce more draconian punishments, which I would be all for. Castration, or chemical neutering as a minimum for example.

A little bit of anecdotal evidence for some of you.. Pedophiles are very good at finding ways to be near children. Whether through sinister design or mental illness, whichever you choose to believe. For a long time in the US and UK convicted pedophiles kept being discovered with jobs as Ice Cream Van workers.... Go figure. Once the statistics had been analyzed it started to make sense to law enforcement officials why: There was no child protection policy / vetting at that time in history for that particular job, and it gave easy access to kids. The percentage of pedophiles working in the Ice Cream industry was amazingly high! Human beings are very good at chasing after things they want, and are driven by instincts (base or otherwise) far more than they realize.... Pedophiles are no exception.

One has to wonder how many apply for jobs in the priesthood, or in other yet to be protected forms of employment these days...

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Original post by scratt If they have been given the opportunity to be part of society again and have chosen to live in a place where their past may be considered a risk (however small) to innocents (re. Kids, Halloween, easy access and temptation) then some kind of monitoring, or other inconvenience or embarrassment to them is nothing compared to what they have done in the past.

What about those who hadn't? Would you support monitoring/inconvenience/embarassment of diagnosed pedophiles who had not (yet) broken any law? What about the castration?

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Original post by Sneftel Quote: Original post by scratt If they have been given the opportunity to be part of society again and have chosen to live in a place where their past may be considered a risk (however small) to innocents (re. Kids, Halloween, easy access and temptation) then some kind of monitoring, or other inconvenience or embarrassment to them is nothing compared to what they have done in the past. What about those who hadn't? Would you support monitoring/inconvenience/embarassment of diagnosed pedophiles who had not (yet) broken any law? What about the castration?

Monitoring, absolutely.

And depending on the severity / mental illness issues chemical castration.

Life is short my friend, and it only takes an instant to screw up someone else's life.
When it comes down to a young child I don't think it's worth risking it.

I am also not convinced that our mental health professionals really have a handle on this, and we are way too quick to label things as 'illnesses', rather than call a spade a shovel.

If I had those tendencies and I was responsible enough to seek help, I'd ask to be chemically castrated, and if they wouldn't I'd put myself out of my misery.

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Original post by Sneftel Quote: Original post by LessBread Registries are extensions of the idea "once a sex offender, always a sex offender". Despite the supposedly Christian nature of the United States, these days few Christians still believe in the possibility of redemption. Joe the Prison Guard has replaced Christ the Redeemer. Believing in redemption is very convenient if one also believes that the redemption in question can come from a priest and/or the stocks. Believing that redemption can come from twice-weekly meetings, sponsorship, and careful supervision is a little more realistic, but the public face of punishment (for good reason) is still the stocks, and I think people don't put too much trust in them these days.

Are you saying that people in the United States never believed in Christ the Redeemer and that instead they have only ever believed in the gallows and the stocks?

This neutering business seems like a bit of a "slippery slope" sort of thing to me. As much as I would support voluntary neutering, and eugenics as a concept... Imagine that pedophiles are routinely neutered or castrated, or even killed upon being diagnosed. How long before we start doing this with other disorders?

What if lawmakers decide that some other demographic also needs to be subject to this treatment, and finds a way to implement laws that support it?

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Original post by scratt [...]

You understand that not all convicted sex offenders are predators, right? For example, somebody that had consensual (meaning without coercion, since they legally can't consent) sex with somebody under the age of consent can be a convicted sex offender even if the ages were very close (17 and 19, for example). They don't get removed from the registry or restrictions for any reason, either - they could have since married the person and had a happy healthy relationship for the last 20 years, but they're still listed and still abused by the general public.

This thread is about 'pedophiles', but I wonder what the legal definition is. I can think of plenty of definitions that would include people that didn't act as predators in any way.

Haven't there also been incidents of people being listed as sex offenders because they posted underage pornographic material of themselves to other people?

With regards to the last three posts...

I don't consider people who had sex under the age of consent to fall into the category of pedophiles *automatically*.
I am sure there are cases where someone under age does something particularly pre-meditated and heinous to another person, and that should be dealt with as rape and / or child abuse, depending on the relative ages etc. etc.
i.e. A 15 year old raping a baby.... for example.

But two 15 year olds having consensual sex, and then being put on the register.. The definition and law there does need to be looked at.

As goes applying neutering and other more serious punishments to these sorts of crimes.. I think most right thinking people can see the difference between doing this to rapists and molesters is a hole bag of different from shooting someone in the head, or chopping fingers off for a crime such a shop-lifting..

The way our society is going wrt to the global population explosion, worsening education, entitlement and lack of personal responsibility or common sense, poverty etc. does mean that laws and control are all going to push against what we call our freedoms, necessarily if we are to avoid anarchy. Unfortunate but true, and we only have ourselves to blame.
I am not saying I like it, which is why I am glad I am not immortal.. I think there comes a time when society may not be somewhere you want to live, and I am more sure it's coming in our lifetimes than not.. But I think it's unlikely that governments are suddenly going to be able to push the boundaries there unreasonably. In fact I think the chances of getting compulsory neutering through for kiddie fiddlers is (unfortunately) also unlikely... so I am really not concerned about that getting out of control in other areas... I'd be quite happy to deal with that at the time, and see some common sense now.

I was working with a pedophile recently for ~6months (+ thats a real pedophile not a 20yr old with 15year old)

now from my conversations with him, he will never ever change,
he attends consoling twice a week, ( at great expense ) which doesnt stop the urges,
hes also on antidesire medication (which also doesnt help)

I tried to convince him to get castrated, as this would make him happier in his life, but no luck

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Original post by Extrarius For example, somebody that had consensual (meaning without coercion, since they legally can't consent) sex with somebody under the age of consent can be a convicted sex offender even if the ages were very close (17 and 19, for example).

I nearly got busted that way when I was 18. My girlfriend at the time was 1 year and one month younger than me. So I turned 18 one month before she turned 17. That means that for about a month I was an "adult" (18) messing around with a "child" (16). To make matters worse, after I graduated from high school I decided to test out my facial hairs by growing a beard (the school dress code required us to shave). And yes, we got caught messing around by the sheriff, who took one look at me and my beard and did not think good thoughts about finding my girlfriend with her blouse unbuttoned and her bra removed. Fortunately for me the sheriff wasn't a complete asshole, so after looking at both of our id's, he gave us a warning and let us go. Needless to say, I shaved off the beard asap.

Have scientist determined the correlation between pedophilia and criminality? I mean, to have sexual urges about children is one thing, actually raping them is another. I, for example, am 26, have natural urges for women but very little or no sex which is something it's not likely to change, yet I don't go around stalking women and raping them, because I'm not a psycopath. I don't need monitoring or chemical castration to keep me from becoming a rapist. Have psychiatrists determine if pedophilia can be seen only as a sexual preference, or is it most of the time connected with dangerous mental ilnesses?

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Original post by Promit Haven't there also been incidents of people being listed as sex offenders because they posted underage pornographic material of themselves to other people?

Yeah, usually in mentally challenged states like Florida it would seem:

"
What: Teenagers taking risque photos of themselves are prosecuted for violating child pornography laws.

When: Florida state appeals court rules on January 19.

Outcome: A 2-1 majority upholds conviction on grounds the girl produced a photograph featuring the sexual conduct of a child.
"

I bet the parents of those kids feel really stupid now that they basically ruined any job prospects for their kid and thus will probably be living with them for the next 20+ years!