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Game programming as a career?

Started by Nocturnis Mar 23, 2009 at 8:28 PM 8 replies 1.9k views

Original Post

Mar 23, 2009 at 8:28 PM

I hope this message isn't too spammy or anything, and I'm sure you guys have seen several messages like this. Hopefully I will be more of a participant. :) I'm going into my mid-twenties (24) and I've always been a gamer. :) I'm not an artist, I'm a newb-level programmer and am in the process of going to school for a Computer Science bachelors. Its my hope I can switch to development, and get into the gaming industry sometime in the future as a programmer, and hopefully put those years of gaming experience to good use. Plus I think it will compliment well with what I do know already, since businesses seem to demand a 4-year degree now. I do have worries, of course and hence, I come here. So.. 1 - Age: Am I too old? I've met some coders that have been coding since they were young. I've also met others who claim that this is mostly untrue, and that I'm still good! So folks.. Am I just too late for the party? 2 - Outsourcing: Reading up on the market, I'm assaulted by news of companies taking their operations completely overseas. Guest workers are another thing as well, but I'm told those guys have to be paid on-level with our wages. Is the gaming industry eyeing taking its development overseas? I don't want to waste money for nothing. :( 3 - Unrealistic? Should codemonkeys programming since they were 9-years old only need apply? 4 - Is Computer Science still worth it? I certainly think so, but I have met dissenting voices amongst my peers that think its a useless degree. 5 - Schools? I've picked up info from schools like Full Sail and DigiPen but they're a bit out of range, financially. These schools worth it? FYI, I'm attending an inner-city 4-year college within the city. I'm aware of the stressful nature of the whole business, and I do know it won't be any 'fun n' games'.. Hell, I'm excited in the idea of participating more in the indie community, the mod community.. Or anything of the sort! Any advice is welcome, though! Thanks! :) [Edited by - Nocturnis on March 23, 2009 11:39:29 PM]

Semei

Mar 23, 2009 at 8:48 PM

1. You must LOVE it (programming and games)
2. You must have a catch in it - not all people are meant to get along with programming, basically you must love math, love to think a lot and love logic

Also school wont help a bit :D Get your first games done as indie and then show them, if they are good you will get hired - that if you want to get hired - you could as well make your own small company.

kindjie

Mar 23, 2009 at 9:05 PM

Quote:
Original post by Nocturnis

1 - Age: Am I too old?

Quote:
Original post by Nocturnis
3 - Unrealistic? Should codemonkeys programming since they were 9-years

old only need apply?

Definitely not. I've technically been "coding" since I was in elementary school and I can tell you that in the end it didn't make that big a difference going into college. What did make a difference was putting in the extra hours outside of your schoolwork to get the basic experience in constructing software.

Again, you'll have to put in those extra hours - this goes for anyone who wants to enter the industry. Read the books recommended on these forums, build little games, go above and beyond what your assignments require even if you don't end up handing the extra part in. If it's fun for you, you'll probably end up doing this anyway.

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Original post by Nocturnis
2 - Outsourcing: Is the gaming industry eyeing taking its development

overseas? I don't want to waste money for nothing. :(

Mostly for art, unless you count Canada. You can always come join us up here in Vancouver. :)

And education is never a waste of money, IMHO.

Quote:
Original post by Nocturnis
4 - Is Computer Science still worth it?

Of course! Who have you been talking to???

Quote:
Original post by Nocturnis
5 - Schools? I've picked up info from schools like Full Sail and DigiPen but they're a bit out of range, financially. These schools worth it? FYI, I'm attending an inner-city 4-year college within the city.

Personally, I'd recommend a 4-year degree in computer science over one of those specialty schools. I don't think any of my programming co-workers went to one of those schools. They might be fine, but I don't see any substantial benefit. Remember, these schools are relatively new and the experienced people making the hiring decisions probably went to a regular university.

andrern2000

Mar 23, 2009 at 10:07 PM

1. Hi buddy. I'm also 23 years and just entering the game programming. I just do this as a hobby because I love gaming since child and got the grasp content of gaming concept. But along the way, I have understood the OOP programming, which is required in many ways in general programming.
2. The comp science degree isn't useless. You'll be into IT field, which is useful.

Well, for a start you could use SDL kit to go on a game programming. It's newbie friendly, and I'm currently using it. The SDL is worth it.

[Edited by - andrern2000 on March 23, 2009 10:07:47 PM]

Telastyn

Mar 23, 2009 at 10:25 PM

Quote:
Original post by Nocturnis
1 - Age: Am I too old?

Maybe? It depends on you. Going to school older is good for some people (more mature) and worse for others (can't fit in, too much adult stuff interfering). And sure, people who've been programming for 15 years already will have you beat on that front. You've done other interesting things in your 15 years which can be brought to bear.

Quote:

2 - Outsourcing:

Less so than others, and (thankfully) there's been enough outsourcing now to let the bean counters have sufficient examples that there's more than beans to business. Still, if you do just as bad/good a job as someone working for 1/4 the salary...

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3 - Unrealistic?

Probably. The industry is very competitive, and even people who work in it tend not do stay there once they 'settle down'. And most of the industry jobs are on the west coast.

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4 - Is Computer Science still worth it? I certainly think so, but I have
met dissenting voices amongst my peers that think its a useless degree.

The only argument I've heard is from people who think that a Computer Science degree is worthless in actually making you a good commercial programmer. It wasn't practical enough. And sure, it can be kinda worthless if you end up doing sys admin or QA work or a programming job that is not terribly complex. Even at the more complex jobs it will miss a lot of practical stuff you'll need to learn on the job.

But HR is going to require you have a degree, and if you like programming...

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5 - Schools?

4 year CS degree is the oft recommended path these days. It allows for a fallback to more jobs should you need to/change your mind, and the fundamentals are always useful.

gekko

Mar 23, 2009 at 11:18 PM

I went to school at 22. From my experience, self-taught programming is only helpful for your first programming class (or maybe 2). There's plenty exception cases, many likely are on these boards, but in general this is what I've noticed.

I'd say the biggest factor is how dedicated you are to learning it. I don't think you'll see much of a difference between those who started at 9 and you starting at 24. I do think you'll see a huge difference between someone who goes home and plays Left 4 Dead, and someone who goes home and reads C++ Templates.

Stani R

Mar 23, 2009 at 11:25 PM

Quote:
Original post by Telastyn
Less so than others, and (thankfully) there's been enough outsourcing now to let the bean counters have sufficient examples that there's more than beans to business. Still, if you do just as bad/good a job as someone working for 1/4 the salary...

Salary isn't the only factor though, fortunately. From what I've heard (in fact, in a class on outsourcing today ^_^) around 50% of all IT outsourcing contracts are aborted prematurely. But then, people in India/China are apparently more suited for creative tasks since they perceive time differently, and I guess that outsourcing of art validates this to some extent.

praju1985

Mar 23, 2009 at 11:34 PM

Quote:
I'd say the biggest factor is how dedicated you are to learning it. I don't think you'll see much of a difference between those who started at 9 and you starting at 24. I do think you'll see a huge difference between someone who goes home and plays Left 4 Dead, and someone who goes home and reads C++ Templates.

Thats it i would guess! the only factor is dedication. I am just a student programmer. But this is what even my teacher tells me. " If you have the dedication and committment, nothing else matters.THe doors will open automatically for you".

Nocturnis

Mar 23, 2009 at 11:58 PM

Thanks for the replies guys. :)

Quote:
1. You must LOVE it (programming and games)

Looking into it. So far I'm enjoying it, even if I am still a newbie coder. :)

Quote:
Of course! Who have you been talking to???

Most folks whom I've spoken to think Computer Science is a foolish endeavour. Those same people are also people who ended up being jobless when the dot-com bust fell on them. They're all older than me as well.

Quote:

1. Hi buddy. I'm also 23 years and just entering the game programming. I just do this as a hobby because I love gaming since child and got the grasp content of gaming concept. But along the way, I have understood the OOP programming, which is required in many ways in general programming.
2. The comp science degree isn't useless. You'll be into IT field, which is useful.

Well, for a start you could use SDL kit to go on a game programming. It's newbie friendly, and I'm currently using it. The SDL is worth it.

I'll certainly look into that as well. :)

I think going to college is still worth it. I've had nothing but difficulty because I lack a 4-year degree, while a friend with a completely unrelated degree but knows IT stuff at least gets his foot in the door.

I welcome more advice! I certainly wish to continue learning.. Any beginner programming advice would be helpful, and I'll look into the recommended books here. :)

kostiak2

Mar 24, 2009 at 2:42 AM

Quote:
Original post by Nocturnis
1 - Age: Am I too old? I've met some coders that have been coding since they were young. I've also met others who claim that this is mostly untrue, and that I'm still good! So folks.. Am I just too late for the party?

As It was said here, the only way to not kill yourself in this business is to truly love programing and particularly game programing. If you do, you will put the extra hours and make some of your own apps. The difference in real experience is very small - for example i started when I was 12, I am 19 now, and I have started "real coding" just in the past year.

So yeah, they do have an advantage, but you can catch up pretty quick if you go the extra mile.

Quote:

2 - Outsourcing: Reading up on the market, I'm assaulted by news of companies taking their operations completely overseas. Guest workers are another thing as well, but I'm told those guys have to be paid on-level with our wages. Is the gaming industry eyeing taking its development overseas? I don't want to waste money for nothing. :(

I personally don't see outsourcing for game development too realistic. The artistic and presentable nature of those application make it much harder to give them to some little code monkey to do. (Not saying it's impossible.. just not too realistic)

On top of that, most of the new game studios are started by game developers/producers and are based in the country of origin (Western countries mainly) and the work is done there.

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3 - Unrealistic? Should codemonkeys programming since they were 9-years old only need apply?

No. read 1.

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4 - Is Computer Science still worth it? I certainly think so, but I have met dissenting voices amongst my peers that think its a useless degree.

5 - Schools? I've picked up info from schools like Full Sail and DigiPen but they're a bit out of range, financially. These schools worth it? FYI, I'm attending an inner-city 4-year college within the city.

I personally think that those schools may be good for the art, production or design positions, but programmers still need to have the good old Computer Science degree.

Besides, the CS degree gives you a lot of opportunity if you don't succeed in the game business, and in my opinion, is never a waste for a series programmer.

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