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Birthers

Started by Mithrandir Jul 29, 2009 at 11:35 AM 63 replies 9.6k views

Original Post

Jul 29, 2009 at 11:35 AM

So back when Obama first announced his intentions to run for President of the US, a fringe group of people suggested that he was born in Kenya and was not actually able to run for president. Obama released his birth certificate, Clinton, McCain, and the Republican Governor of Hawaii all verified it and accepted the proof, bam, problem solved. I didn't really hear anything major about it again for a while. I chuckled a little everytime I saw someone mention it because I was sure than in more than a few cases, it was just someone trying to be funny, and the other cases were just the lunatic fringe rabble rousing, similar to the truthers. But this month, birthermania has heated up again for some reason. I am absolutely confused at where this is all coming from again suddenly.

">For example. Woman goes nuts on a congressman, screaming about Obama's birth certificate. When she finished I expected the crowd to laugh at her, but instead it goes full retard and... applauds... with loud screams and clapping. I mean wow. Then the congressman actually says that Obama is a citizen, and the crowd starts booing him... what the hell? Now it seems everywhere I go, the newsmedia is reporting on the "controversey" behind Obama's birthplace. There's even some moron offering $100,000 for "proof" that Obama was born in America, except he won't accept the Birth certificate as proof. Last week Rush Limbaugh even joined in the insanity with this gem: "Barack Obama has yet to have to prove that he's a citizen. All he has to do is show a birth certificate. He has yet to have to prove he's a citizen. I have to show them 14 different ways where the hell I am every day of the year for three years.". I always knew Limbaugh was crazy, I just didn't think he was padded-wall crazy. So why is this suddenly becoming an issue again? Why are there so many people who suddenly, beyond all rational thought, believe that Obama is an illegal Kenyan immigrant? Is this going to cause some insane nut out there to try to assassinate him, reasoning that he's being patriotic and killing an illegal president? Furthermore, why isn't the Republican party leadership putting any effort into distancing themselves from these nutjobs?

WazzatMan

Jul 29, 2009 at 11:49 AM

Three words:

Public health issue.

It nearly destroyed the Clintons. I was quite surprised to see Hilary Clinton publicly in favor of it again.

Quote:
why isn't the Republican party leadership putting any effort into distancing themselves from these nutjobs?

Same as above. Reagen was one of the biggest opponents of public health care in America, and the current HMO system was developed by Nixon. The Republican party also has a lot to lose if Obama proves himself to be capable of anything. It would forever cement his public image as an Archangel Superstar. But I think the fact that he's making another push to involve the Government in health care makes him an even bigger target.

Mithrandir

Jul 29, 2009 at 11:57 AM

Not sure I see a link between not believing in public health care and believing that Obama is an illegal kenyan immigrant...

WazzatMan

Jul 29, 2009 at 12:00 PM

I was thinking more along the lines of reasons of why the Republican-sympathetic media would pick hairs. Even if Obama was born in Kenya, it is a pretty small issue, he lived most of his life as an American citizen.

Anon Mike

Jul 29, 2009 at 12:10 PM

Quote:
Original post by WazzatMan
I was thinking more along the lines of reasons of why the Republican-sympathetic media would pick hairs. Even if Obama was born in Kenya, it is a pretty small issue, he lived most of his life as an American citizen.

It's actually a very big deal if it were true. The constitution requires the president to be a natural born citizen.

As for the all the hoopla, I attribute it to there being relatively little real news at the moment, general right-wing extremist dingbattery, and I'll toss in the race card just for good measure. Nobody can pour on the slathering, flag-draped hate like those guys, just look at how everything negative (from the neo-con point of view) in the entire world was blamed on Clinton pretty much until the instant Obama won, now it's his turn.

Luckless

Jul 29, 2009 at 12:15 PM

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Original post by Anon Mike
Quote:
Original post by WazzatMan
I was thinking more along the lines of reasons of why the Republican-sympathetic media would pick hairs. Even if Obama was born in Kenya, it is a pretty small issue, he lived most of his life as an American citizen.

It's actually a very big deal if it were true. The constitution requires the president to be a natural born citizen.

Which is an idiotic concept for a nation that is 99% immigrant family lines. Also, isn't that a fairly new addition to the USA's Constitution?

WazzatMan

Jul 29, 2009 at 12:15 PM

Quote:
It's actually a very big deal if it were true. The constitution requires the president to be a natural born citizen.

While true, under normal circumstances people would have generally calmed down when the original certificate was released. Normal people wouldn't actually be that enraged by it, unless there was something deeper fanning their flames, or someone in the media fanning their flames.

Ravuya

Jul 29, 2009 at 12:26 PM

Quote:
Original post by Mithrandir
So why is this suddenly becoming an issue again? Why are there so many people who suddenly, beyond all rational thought, believe that Obama is an illegal Kenyan immigrant?

One thing that racists have become exceptionally good at is encoding their prejudice.

For a lot of the birthers, it seems the "he's an immigrant" bit is really just code for "he's strange and foreign," which is code for "black," coupled with the handful of crazies who genuinely believe it.

It's also a great blocking topic - you might recall the single-minded obsessive compulsive disorder the congressional Republicans exhibited over Clinton's marital infidelity. Whenever you're in an argument, you can subvert having actual discussion by bringing up this irrelevant topic and watching as people are innately drawn to it.

It's getting picked up in the media lately because for whatever reason the news cycle has settled on it. As the news cycle gives it more exposure, they'll pick up more people who think they're super clever by hiding their racism behind yelling about Obama's "birth certificate." Think about what happened with the 9/11 truthers when their conspiracy theories actually got exposure in the media.

Since it's actually getting followers, people like Limbaugh are picking it up and running with it in the absence of anything else to quickly unify the party faithful around.

Sirisian

Jul 29, 2009 at 12:28 PM

Quote:
Original post by Talroth
Quote:
Original post by Anon Mike
Quote:
Original post by WazzatMan
I was thinking more along the lines of reasons of why the Republican-sympathetic media would pick hairs. Even if Obama was born in Kenya, it is a pretty small issue, he lived most of his life as an American citizen.

It's actually a very big deal if it were true. The constitution requires the president to be a natural born citizen.

Which is an idiotic concept for a nation that is 99% immigrant family lines. Also, isn't that a fairly new addition to the USA's Constitution?

Nah that was in there when it was ratified. It's kind of old. For all I care it could be removed. It's not like some random dictator from another country is going to get voted into office. Just put down "No British Citizens". Don't want any revenge annexations. :P

d000hg

Jul 29, 2009 at 12:45 PM

Quote:
For a lot of the birthers, it seems the "he's an immigrant" bit is really just code for "he's strange and foreign," which is code for "black," coupled with the handful of crazies who genuinely believe it.

You don't think they're going to accuse Obama of being black?!

Alpha_ProgDes

Jul 29, 2009 at 1:55 PM

Quote:
Original post by d000hg
Quote:
For a lot of the birthers, it seems the "he's an immigrant" bit is really just code for "he's strange and foreign," which is code for "black," coupled with the handful of crazies who genuinely believe it.
You don't think they're going to accuse Obama of being black?!

Why not? It's not like they'll accuse him of being white!

Oluseyi

Jul 29, 2009 at 2:12 PM

He's a black president with a Kenyan father. That's just too much for some "patriots" to bear, thus Birthers. Besides, previously he was "Muslim," but that didn't get much traction (especially since he was being attacked for his long-time affiliation with Rev. Wright).

Oh, and healthcare. The far-right wing doesn't want to discuss healthcare (though most of the far-right wing supporters would really benefit from universal healthcare, but it's like institutionalized Stockholm Syndrome where they identify with and defend the rights of corporations over their own, plus "socialism!").

The one benefit of all of this is the unraveling of the bullshit "post-racial" narrative that some in the media were trying to push after Obama's election. We ain't post shit.

/me puts Jeezy's "My President is Black" on repeat... again. [smile]

rip-off

Jul 29, 2009 at 3:04 PM

All I can say is: when the people in the linked video started to cheer the only thing that came to mind was any South Park episode where the townspeople cheer some ridiculous plan or event. Not a good comparison.

choffstein

Jul 29, 2009 at 3:08 PM

Quote:
Original post by rip-off
All I can say is: when the people in the linked video started to cheer the only thing that came to mind was any South Park episode where the townspeople cheer some ridiculous plan or event. Not a good comparison.

Rabble rabble rabble rabble!

Sirisian

Jul 29, 2009 at 3:13 PM

Quote:
Original post by choffstein
Quote:
Original post by rip-off
All I can say is: when the people in the linked video started to cheer the only thing that came to mind was any South Park episode where the townspeople cheer some ridiculous plan or event. Not a good comparison.

Rabble rabble rabble rabble!

they terk our jerbs :)

smr

Jul 29, 2009 at 3:57 PM

Is this shit for real?

frob

Jul 29, 2009 at 3:57 PM

It's not that hard to understand, and the health care issue is just one of the many programs.

The logic is simple:

The President has instituted or is encouraging {Program X}.
I do not like {Program X}.
I have no power over {Program X} as long as he is the President.
Therefore, I will deny that he is the President.

This just happens to be the disqualification criteria being sought for President Obama.

Consider several other disqualifications that have been used:

* He can't be President because the vote was invalid (eg. the Supreme Court issued a ruling on the Florida votes)
* The Electoral College is wrong (eg. several elections with a close popular vote or the losing candidate won the popular vote)
* The President is too old to competently exercise the office (eg. President Reagan age 69, candidate McCain age 71)
* The President mis-spoke the oath of office and is therefore disqualified (several presidents, including Obama)
* The President must be impeached, found guilty, and removed from office (eg. Andrew Johnson, Bill Clinton, Richard Nixon, and lesser charges against many others)

Claims that the President is not allowed to hold office is common to every presidency.

Ainokea

Jul 29, 2009 at 4:02 PM

Some asshole stated it like it was a fact. Than everyone else decided that that was good enough for them so they jumped on and decided he wasn't born in America.

GameCreator

Jul 29, 2009 at 4:50 PM

Quote:
"It's racist," said Phil Griffin, the president of MSNBC. "It's racist. Just call it for what it is."

Mr. Griffin said the cable news coverage was set off by two back-to-back events: the introduction of a bill that would require presidential candidates to provide a copy of their original birth certificate (it has nine co-sponsors in the House and one in the Senate) and the video of a town hall held by a Republican Congressman that turned into a hearing on Mr. Obama's citizenship.

From: On Television and Radio, Talk of Obama's Citizenship

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Remarkably, there is even a reference to Mr. Obama's birth in the "Births, Marriages, Deaths" column of The Honolulu Advertiser newspaper on Aug. 13, 1961.

Yann L

Jul 29, 2009 at 5:07 PM

I also think that this whole deal is just about racism.

But the Obama thing aside, I was wondering about this strange law that only US-born citizens may become president. Consider:

A) An illegal immigrant gives birth to a child on US soil, while being illegally in the country (duh). As far as I understand, the child will automatically get US citizenship in this case. He was born in the US, and can therefore become president. Even if he has no further connections or doesn't feel any kind of 'loyalty' for the US.

B) Legal US citizens get their child while being on vacation abroad (maybe due to an unforeseen medical complication). The child was not born in the US, so it will never be able to become US president.

Are these assumptions correct ?

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