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Original post by MSW Wait, so Hanna Montana sells lots of CDs...thus makeing her a GOOD musician?

No. It makes the people who marketed her and groomed her good at knowing what will be a hit.

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What is Good or Bad game design/music/film/TV is SUBJECTIVE. Period.

Way to throw in the "Period." That doesn't make you look like a douche or anything.

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Total number of sales != good game design Total number of sales != bad game design

But it can be a good indication. Especially in the Sims case where this is the 3rd version of the game and people still want to buy it.

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Bloggers are only an authority on thier own personal subjectivity. Its opinions people, and it is all relative, deal with it.

That doesn't mean that these opinions don't mean anything. Especially coming from people who are experienced in game design. Sure you can say opinions don't mean anything... but that doesn't mean it's true. People find value in other's opinions. Otherwise there would be no need for game reviewers, music reviewers or movie critics. Opinions matter, that's the bottom line. "Deal with it."

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Now why is a thread in the Game design forum concerning the self promotion of the OPs blog allowed?

Good point. If he wants people to read his opinions on game design, he should make threads here. Not link to his blog.

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And why do posters who wish to take the blogger's views to task post here, instead of over there on the bloggers own site?

Probably because we understand that this forum is for the discussion of game design and we're merely discussing his views on game design here. We're trying to keep our game design discussion here instead of going to his self promoted blog.

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Original post by Konidias Quote: Original post by MSW Wait, so Hanna Montana sells lots of CDs...thus makeing her a GOOD musician? No. It makes the people who marketed her and groomed her good at knowing what will be a hit. ~snip~ Quote: Total number of sales != good game design Total number of sales != bad game design But it can be a good indication. Especially in the Sims case where this is the 3rd version of the game and people still want to buy it.

So which is it?

If Hanna Montana's 3rd CD sells well, can it be a good indictaion she is a good musician? Or did those marketing and grooming people continue do thier job well?

And what does marketing and grooming honestly have to do with game design? Myst was marketed and groomed very well, does that mean it had good game design? Is good old Battle Chess better than good old plain chess in the game design department because it was polished with animated pieces and death scenes?

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Quote: Bloggers are only an authority on thier own personal subjectivity. Its opinions people, and it is all relative, deal with it. That doesn't mean that these opinions don't mean anything. Especially coming from people who are experienced in game design. Sure you can say opinions don't mean anything... but that doesn't mean it's true. People find value in other's opinions. Otherwise there would be no need for game reviewers, music reviewers or movie critics. Opinions matter, that's the bottom line. "Deal with it."

Never said opinions didn't mean anything. In fact I said its all relative...Meaning everything from how much value one places in anothers opinion, to whom is voiceing the opinion, to whom is/isn't listening, to whom doesn't care, to whom who cares too much. To each thier own and your mileage may vary.

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Original post by Programmer16 I can't agree with Konidias on his comment because I simply stopped reading after the 3rd paragraph of your Sims 3 "Game Review." If you don't like a game, think it's an utter waste, or just plain hate it: insult the game, not the people that play it. My suggestion would be to learn how to write an actual game review using a gamer's perspective, not just your own personal opinions. Yes, the Sims is a horrible set of games in my opinion and I'm bored to tears while playing it. However, in terms of content and pandering to the masses that love the game, they did rather well (at least in the others, I haven't played Sims 3 yet. However, I'm actually getting ready to go pick it up for my girlfriend.)

What exactly does a "gamer's perspective" look like? Does it have anything to do with content and pandering to the masses that love the game?

I think the OP needs to work on his eloquence and rhetoric, but I can't help but read something somewhat untoward into the juxtaposition of proper review practice and recognizing that there are games that bring in a lot of money and acquire a large fan-base. It's as much a faulty generalization to assume things about the players of a game because of its content as it is to assume things about a game's content (and its players) because of its success.

Technically this doesn't belong in Game Design, keithburgun, but there seems to be something of a discussion going on so I won't close it (Sandman may decide otherwise). In the future if you're going to post in Game Design please put in the effort to start up a topic that can be discussed here.

Toward that end, I'm curious-- why do you hate Sims games? Why are the goals of, say, getting a bigger house, seeing if you can be kidnapped by aliens or raise a family less valid than something like rescuing the princess?

Music theory is helpful in deconstructing music and making sense of it so that it can be objectively talked about. The same can be done for games.

The blog is ultimately a failure because it fails to address games objectively.

If someone is unable to understand why someone else likes a certain game then how could they ever objectively judge that game? If you can't relate to a player then it is unlikely that you will ever be able to create a game that relates to them.

From reading some of the OP's blog I think I can guess what type of consumer he is. He is someone that prefers a challenge. He is also impatient and is unlikely to like a game with long loading times or interruptions. He is unlikely to focus on story or the ability to leverage assets that encourage creativity. He wants a game where he can win. He is also likely to spend a long time playing a game. He probably won't care much about graphics. I am not sure what he feels about games that rely heavily on a social component like MMOs.

This is almost the exact opposite of the type of player that likes The Sims.

He also complains a lot about the industry because it makes a lot of games that don't appeal to him. Meanwhile he even talks about how he played one game (TF2) for a year. Compare that to how many Sims Expansion packs can sell in one year.

Sims 3 and Hannah Montanna have something in common. The consumers of the product are ready to move onto the next product in the line relatively quickly. This creates a lot of volume which helps business.