PROVOKING the MASSES: About Help Wanted...

Quote:

Original post by CCBourgeau How many of you use the Help/Hiring threads?

I browse the threads, but I'm not looking for/to join a team.

Quote:

Original post by CCBourgeau How many of you dedicate to a single group and project?

I'm currently working solo on my own project, and also spending a little time on another project when I get the chance. In addition to my regular day-job (programming, though not game programming, related), of course.

Quote:

Original post by CCBourgeau How many can say they are successful?

Not sure what you mean by this. I consider myself to be successful, in general, but successful in what specially are you asking?

Quote:

Original post by CCBourgeau The average gamer should be 18- as media has indicated, but how many here aren't?

The average gamer is 30-35 ([1] [2]) years old (depending on which country you live in). Not sure where you got the idea that it's 18, unless that was a typo...

Quote:

Original post by CCBourgeauThis should be full of Programmers, Artists, and Musicians dedicated to a single project at a time in-order to increase productivity. Although this seems not to be the case?

That's not a question.

I'm not really sure what the point of this post is. Are you just lamenting the difficulty in putting together a dedicated team for your own game? I'm afraid that's just going to be something you'll have to learn to live with. For me, the best project to work on is my own - no need to rely on anybody else!

Quote:

Quote: Original post by CCBourgeau How many of you use the Help/Hiring threads? I browse the threads, but I'm not looking for/to join a team. Quote: Original post by CCBourgeau How many of you dedicate to a single group and project? I'm currently working solo on my own project, and also spending a little time on another project when I get the chance. In addition to my regular day-job (programming, though not game programming, related), of course. Quote: Original post by CCBourgeau How many can say they are successful? Not sure what you mean by this. I consider myself to be successful, in general, but successful in what specially are you asking? Quote: Original post by CCBourgeau The average gamer should be 18- as media has indicated, but how many here aren't? The average gamer is 30-35 ([1] [2]) years old (depending on which country you live in). Not sure where you got the idea that it's 18, unless that was a typo... Quote: Original post by CCBourgeauThis should be full of Programmers, Artists, and Musicians dedicated to a single project at a time in-order to increase productivity. Although this seems not to be the case? That's not a question. <-"You can argue but you cant run. If its got a question mark its accepted as a question, I'm not gonna change the subject to grammar just so you can avoid it.-CC" I'm not really sure what the point of this post is. Are you just lamenting the difficulty in putting together a dedicated team for your own game? I'm afraid that's just going to be something you'll have to learn to live with. For me, the best project to work on is my own - no need to rely on anybody else!"<-- that's just your opinion and your entitled to it, so is anyone else who thinks so.-CC"

Meh-... I care less about making a post for my team, I was just pointing out things that seem to be of interest and can be potential problems for some, while you may be happy with "as is" but while others come for different reasons. Don't you go and try to get fancy on me now: "lamenting" -sheesh. As for about ages, I'm speaking for the American Demographic, G4's ATOS states that the average gamer is 18 and older, its generally stated among our media here too though its been a little while since Ive heard it. Don't you see the location above my post? This means I'm thinking as an American- because I am. I'm just stating simple questions that I wanted to know and there is more than one answer to it, as its different for each user, which I'm trying to find out the generality of its nature. Since there isn't a clear definition.

Thanks, :)

It's still not clear what you're trying to achieve here. Would you like us to start banning people from posting if they're not 18 years old? Or doing background research to ensure they don't already have an existing project before allowing them to post?

Look I cant achieve anything unless these questions are answered, that guy('codek' or whomever) above basically screwed with my point of the post. If you want to find out what can be done, first you ask questions and I'm not about to create a pointless argument for the sake of it. Consider this like a survey.

Again, here are some key things we as posters and users should be doing regardless of age, I just expected a little older "audience" than say 15 for example, is all and if not well then I'd know my facts and so would the rest of you.


Here the shoulds and shouldn'ts:
(remember its just opinion of what I think, you don't have to like it. Its there to be informational.)

Do:

-If working for a project, don't overload your work slate.

-Try and keep it to a minimum of one or two projects.

-Teams, you should at least stick by one. its between you and your team if they allow you to do something for another team or project not on your current team. they should interact similar to the way a company would.

Avoid:
-Too many here act as hotshot freelancers, in my opinion which you don't have to like its just my opinion. Its fine to work for odd-jobs for experience or the like but make sure your not taking another's place on a team that really needs help from a more permanent member.

-Teams usually need permanent members in most cases, if you just come and go as you please then that whole team is basically a bunch of temps and wont work very well together or worse not complete a project.

Resolve/Why:
I came up with this do to the supposed complaints I over-read("heard"). Most of them had a huge concern for the project's success's or chances. I just wanted to find out a few answers then leave a response of a best possible solution.

Really why 'complain' about something I wasn't I was just asking questions that could be used to help improve the way we as GDnet users interact. In no way did I ask for any moderator to do anything to the forums. that would be a last resort deal, but I trust the users to do better instead. So I all I wanted was some simple answers and I would provide a possibility which others could leave theirs after mine. A kind of feedback survey if you will. hope this helps, its all I got for this subject right now.

Quote:

Original post by CCBourgeau Look I cant achieve anything unless these questions are answered, that guy('codek' or whomever) above basically screwed with my point of the post. If you want to find out what can be done, first you ask questions and I'm not about to create a pointless argument for the sake of it. Consider this like a survey.

Being a bit harsh to the one person who has actually bothered to take your survey, IMO :P

Quote:

Original post by CCBourgeau The average gamer should be 18- as media has indicated, but how many here aren't?

Average age of gamers is something like 35, not 18. I'd say a site like this would have a good percentage of younger users because they've got more spare time to waste on game dev.
Your average 35yr old gamer doesn't have anywhere near as much "hobby time" between juggling job, family and other hobbies, like gaming itself.

Quote:

This should be full of Programmers, Artists, and Musicians dedicated to a single project at a time in-order to increase productivity. Although this seems not to be the case?

Isn't it a bit dangerous to be telling people what they should be doing in order to be "successful"?
As a balance to your anecdote, we have several people at work assigned to multiple projects (in order to increase productivity), because any one single project would not provide a full work-load for them.

Quote:

I thought to address this not with the moderators, instead the users since we create the threads!

Most people who use the HW forum aren't going to read your post unfortunately, and even less people will read it who don't use the HW forum (selection bias) :/
I'm not trying to dissuade you or insult your efforts, but I'm interested to hear your proposal to cut down on "mistreating the forum" (and exactly what constitutes misuse).

Quote:

Quote: Original post by CCBourgeau Look I cant achieve anything unless these questions are answered, that guy('codek' or whomever) above basically screwed with my point of the post. If you want to find out what can be done, first you ask questions and I'm not about to create a pointless argument for the sake of it. Consider this like a survey. Being a bit harsh to the one person who has actually bothered to take your survey, IMO :P Quote: Original post by CCBourgeau The average gamer should be 18- as media has indicated, but how many here aren't? Average age of gamers is something like 35, not 18. I'd say a site like this would have a good percentage of younger users because they've got more spare time to waste on game dev. Your average 35yr old gamer doesn't have anywhere near as much "hobby time" between juggling job, family and other hobbies, like gaming itself. Quote: This should be full of Programmers, Artists, and Musicians dedicated to a single project at a time in-order to increase productivity. Although this seems not to be the case? Isn't it a bit dangerous to be telling people what they should be doing in order to be "successful"? As a balance to your anecdote, we have several people at work assigned to multiple projects (in order to increase productivity), because any one single project would not provide a full work-load for them. Quote: I thought to address this not with the moderators, instead the users since we create the threads! Most people who use the HW forum aren't going to read your post unfortunately, and even less people will read it who don't use the HW forum (selection bias) :/ I'm not trying to dissuade you or insult your efforts, but I'm interested to hear your proposal to cut down on "mistreating the forum" (and exactly what constitutes misuse).

While I can't sugar-coat the truth, I can say whether its harsh or not codeka didn't help the cause, much- it ended up with a moderator in the postings after such. Also there is risk in everything you do, danger doesn't quite describe the internet or what I'm asking- risk sure, danger not much. After all I mean no harm.

Now onto what the post is about; (mind you I've made this survey with fresh new teams in mind...)

Misuse of the HW sub-forum, what do you see happen or happen to read about in the Hw Sub-forums that contributes to the lack of success to a posting or projects for a Team?

Generally, what is a Help Wanted ad usually used for? how does that compare to the differences here?

It is not that we are trying to be professional just trying to mimic, in-order to help a team become more acquainted with a company like day to day operation, and help add on to more productivity team-wise. So that they can feel easier about applying for a real job from a professional company when they think they have amassed enough knowledge and experience. What do you know and think about the HW?

Glad you're willing to help,
CC

You sure come off as defensive when people answer your questions. You're not really giving anyone incentive to reply.

Definitive proof: the Entertainment Software Association (an American organisation) has found the average age of gamers is 35. 18 isn't old, and I expect quite a number of people on this forum are past their teens.

Quote:

Original post by CCBourgeau It is not that we are trying to be professional just trying to mimic, in-order to help a team become more acquainted with a company like day to day operation, and help add on to more productivity team-wise. So that they can feel easier about applying for a real job from a professional company when they think they have amassed enough knowledge and experience. What do you know and think about the HW?

This is what I know and think about the Help Wanted forum. The ads in the Help Wanted forum are nothing like applying for a "real job" in the games industry, let alone any industry. They are far less formal, less in-depth, more trusting of people to have the skills required. I have yet to see a Help Wanted topic-starter who demands a university education, quizzes people on programming problems, or requires a complete and prior portfolio of artwork. :)

Besides, examining the Help Wanted forum won't improve productivity or reveal the day-to-day operations of a game development company.

As long as people keep to templates, are courteous and reasonable, and have thought out their plans well, then I don't have any complaints about their help requests. I usually read them out of interest, not because I have a desire to join projects.

Quote:

codeka didn't help the cause, much- it ended up with a moderator in the postings after such.

Kylotan was replying to you, not to anything Codeka said; I think you're bit unfair to him. As somebody else pointed out he took the time to actually answer your questions. Maybe you didn't like his responses but that's no reason to respond the way you have, in my mind.

What's your concern about having a moderator post in the thread anyway? We read and use these forums too.

Now regardless of any previous postings I've started a reboot for the survey;

Do you use the Help Wanted Sub-Forums?(y/n)

In what manner do you use the HW forum for? (ex: searching,posting projects, ect.)

How do you like to interact with the other users?"(ex: casually or semi-casually)

What do you think you should do when working with a team?

What can make your project less likely to succeed or gain team members?

What do you think about the HW sub-forums and how there used?

this last one I will probably revise and restate, and I understand that this may not help much but its for informational reasons for everyone new and current. Its going to have some uses.

Note: If you want to argue about "ages" here I'm going to ignore your comment as I already get your points, it was clear after the third post.(*sighs, relief)

Now If you would be kind to answer the above to the best possible knowledge.I'm trying to make this into a survey for a set of guidelines that should have been ruled flexibly to use or not.

Please do not edit the text of your original post to significantly alter the original text after a discussion has commenced, or to remove the content entirely (as I've noticed you've done with other threads). This is a community and those sorts of actions make the thread difficult to read for other users; you don't "own" the thread.

Quote:

Original post by jpetrie Please do not edit the text of your original post to significantly alter the original text after a discussion has commenced, or to remove the content entirely (as I've noticed you've done with other threads). This is a community and those sorts of actions make the thread difficult to read for other users; you don't "own" the thread.

Other threads? hmm one, but I cant delete after Ive posted? it's 'weak-sauce' if I cant delete a post with no discussion. I've been to many forums and non Ive seen have so limited abilities as GDnet does. Sorry about that, If that is a rule I haven't read it yet. Anyway, I have the right freedom of speech and press you know- though I'm trying to stay in the lines you have drawn.

Quote:

Original post by CCBourgeau hmm one, but I cant delete after Ive posted?

it is very discourteous to your fellow posters when you remove a post that they have been discussing.

Quote:

Anyway, I have the right freedom of speech and press you know

That might be true (depending on the jurisdiction) in a public forum. GDNet is however a corporation, and can administer its boards as it sees fit.

That said, the rules around here are pretty fair, and are mostly designed to aid and improve the quality of discussions.

Quote:

Original post by swiftcoder Quote: Original post by CCBourgeau hmm one, but I cant delete after Ive posted? it is very discourteous to your fellow posters when you remove a post that they have been discussing. Quote: Anyway, I have the right freedom of speech and press you know That might be true (depending on the jurisdiction) in a public forum. GDNet is however a corporation, and can administer its boards as it sees fit. That said, the rules around here are pretty fair, and are mostly designed to aid and improve the quality of discussions.

You do realize I was talking about the fact that I couldn't delete a thread post I made which has no discussion? Well, I was. Thank you for the help, much appreciated.

:]

You can delete threads you have created so long as nobody has replied. There is probably a timeout on how long you have until you are no longer allowed to do so, however. Also do note that just because you didn't see any replies in the thread doesn't mean there were none, perhaps those replies were deleted by a moderator for one reason or another.

Quote:

Original post by jpetrie You can delete threads you have created so long as nobody has replied. There is probably a timeout on how long you have until you are no longer allowed to do so, however. Also do note that just because you didn't see any replies in the thread doesn't mean there were none, perhaps those replies were deleted by a moderator for one reason or another.

well I don't know if it was a mod. that modified the replies, but I haven't seen the ability to delete regardless. Its kinda strange to me that it'd time out after I posted it, and it still had no replies to my knowledge by the time I went to delete it.

I took a look at the specific thread I'm thinking of, and there were no replies (not even deleted ones). However, the different between when you posted it and when you edited it was a few hours, which is probably long enough for the timeout to prevent you from editing it.

We encourage users to think before they post, as such we only support the deleting of threads for a brief period of time. It's to handle the "oops, I just realized this was in the wrong forum" problem (and similar), not to allow people to come back and sanitize their post history, et cetera.

I just confirmed with another (regular) user that he could in fact create and then delete a thread, however, so it certainly works.

Quote:

Original post by jpetrie I took a look at the specific thread I'm thinking of, and there were no replies (not even deleted ones). However, the different between when you posted it and when you edited it was a few hours, which is probably long enough for the timeout to prevent you from editing it. We encourage users to think before they post, as such we only support the deleting of threads for a brief period of time. It's to handle the "oops, I just realized this was in the wrong forum" problem (and similar), not to allow people to come back and sanitize their post history, et cetera. I just confirmed with another (regular) user that he could in fact create and then delete a thread, however, so it certainly works.

well that's certainly interesting...Thank you for the feedback.

:]