New subforum idea

That seems like an idea that could be presented in 'game programming', or even 'graphics'. I don't see the need for a separate sub forum just to accumulate 'ideas'.

yeah, I got me this feeling that all threads out there has to be questions. Well it is not so I realized after I more carefully red the descriptions.

but yet, if someone posts a topic that this new subforum of mine refers to, in for example XNA subforum, it will dive in to depths of history becouse of questions in like 4 hours. While with this new subforum, you would just click and nicely browse what you expect, advices or hint ar just thoughts that someone shares, not questions. I think there are so many subforums here on gamedev (I like it of course), this might help too, no?

The problem I see is this -- first realize two things:

1 - Technical "ideas" in vague terms are next to worthless.
2 - Technical "ideas" must offer proof-of-concept, or a very stong name behind them.

Everyone has ideas all the time. More often than not they're half-baked, and many are just plain terrible/stupid. Good ideas have a lot of deep thought behind them, not just a cursory and superficial "wouldn't it be cool if..." or "I wish I there was a way to...". Great ideas are demonstrable (not that all demonstrable ideas are good, mind you, as the history of human invention clearly shows), if not in tangible form, then at least anecdotally.

In my opinion, if you've got an idea which is well-formed enough to warrant sharing, then you've either got the makings of an article, or a proof-of-concept that could be posted in the "Your Announcements" or "Image of the Day" forums. If I recall correctly, this site even has (or had) a concept of "Sweet Snippets" -- which were basically a short-form article backed by code.

I think this proposed forum would basically be the Twitter equivalent of the system in place now -- and I mean that in the meanest, least flattering way possible. Just like twitter, or blogs in general, the quality is directly related to the poster, and even though the ground may shake when someone like John Carmack tweets 60 words, it doesn't at all mean that I want to hear the random thoughts every idiot that can string a vague idea into a semi-coherent string of words, and I certainly don't want to encourage a format that enables them to do what they do easily and with reckless abandon.

I fucking hate Twitter.

Quote:

Original post by JohnnyCode but yet, if someone posts a topic that this new subforum of mine refers to, in for example XNA subforum, it will dive in to depths of history becouse of questions in like 4 hours. While with this new subforum, you would just click and nicely browse what you expect, advices or hint ar just thoughts that someone shares, not questions. I think there are so many subforums here on gamedev (I like it of course), this might help too, no?

Actually, that proves that this is a bad idea. If forum members found those types of threads worthwhile or interesting, they would stay active and float near the top of that forum. The fact that they disappear from the front page so quickly is precisely because no one's interested. The solution isn't to specifically create a forum for dull, uninteresting threads -- but to stop creating those threads.

Quote:

Original post by Ravyne Actually, that proves that this is a bad idea. If forum members found those types of threads worthwhile or interesting, they would stay active and float near the top of that forum. The fact that they disappear from the front page so quickly is precisely because no one's interested. The solution isn't to specifically create a forum for dull, uninteresting threads -- but to stop creating those threads.

They float becouse they get discussed. And there are so valuable posts in gamedev but you can dig them by searching only. I think the forum Ideas would be popular (and funny too).
(you should think with eyes closed Ravyne).

And why did they get discussed? Because the community at large found them interesting, or informative, or valuable in some other way. I may be coming off as a bit course, but just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I'm not thinking about it critically or carefully.

I did think about your idea, and in my estimation it would only be a home for half-formed thoughts. Its hard for me to imagine a fully-formed thought that wouldn't find a better home in one of the other forums (or in general programming, if other forums are off-topic) -- then, if it *is* an interesting and valid topic, it will be popular enough to stay on the front page long enough to draw some good discussion. If not, it dies like so many other threads -- by design, and rightfully so.

Also, a large part of the reason for not adding forums wantonly is that it fractures the base of knowlege. Lets say, for the sake of discussion that you have your forum, and some really great threads come out of it -- as well as lots of stinkers. Now, stinkers we don't care about other than the fact that they drive down the signal-to-noise ratio, but the great ones we do. Since there's no specific topic being discussed some of these great threads are about algorithms, some about graphics, some about AI... things we already have vibrant and active forums for. We also know that people tend to stick to a few forums and don't venture too far from the 3-5 forums they call home. Now, the problem is two-fold: People who are interested in AI may not venture too far from the AI forum, so they may not even see these great AI threads in your forum, let alone add to them. The second problem is one of searchability: if I'm researching information on graphics, I'm going to limit the search to the graphics forums. Period -- just like now, I don't search for graphics info in General Programming or the Lounge.

I've been here for around 10 years, and the number and topics of the forums has been pretty stable for as long as I can remember. There have been discussions of adding new forums for even popular topics, topics which already have a great deal of traffic in the most-closely-related forum, and even those ideas are usually shot down because they either are not perceived to be popular enough over a long period of time, or for the fact that they would fracture the knowlege base -- even when the topic is not *entirely* on topic of an existing forum, there is usually a forum where the regulars have a personal knowlege base apt to discussing other things.

For a new forum to be viable, there first needs to be a demonstrable need/desire among the community at large for a given topic, that subset of the community needs to be large enough to keep it active over a long period of time (generally once a forum comes into existence, it doesn't go away) and finally, it needs to be different enough that there is sufficient reason to distinguish it from other, existing forums.

It's for these reasons that I believe your "Ideas" forum would be a black-hole at best, and harmful to the community at worst.

Quote:

Original post by JohnnyCode ... And there are so valuable posts in gamedev but you can dig them by searching only...

Of course there are, this site has been around forever after all -- Gamedev.net has been around only a little less time than Google, being born in the internet year 2AG (After Google), which was well before the internet boomed and then went bust... In short, this website's history is too long and storied to keep all the content front and center.

The forums are not about keeping a certain ideal of topic up front, forums are simply about keeping the most actively discussed topics up front, otherwise they become "reading forums" instead of "discussion forums" -- Look at the really great threads: Hundreds of posts, and sometimes days or even weeks on the front page of their respective forum.

The front page of a forum is a precious and limited commodity, the maintainers simply can't make all the great, past information available in a thread-like way -- and more to the point, that is exactly the role that search fills. Furthermore, I can also say with relative certainty that the search results likely take into account the overall and at-the-time popularity of a given thread through various metrics, because that's simply what makes sense -- even after a thread's death, popularity still means something.

If a thread is bumped off without being discussed, then the likeliest scenario is simply that no one was interested in discussing it. If, however, you feel that a posting was unjustly overlooked, perhaps overshadowed by a really popular thread, then you're welcome to bide some time, post again, and perhaps even begin with something like "I brought this up a few days ago, and I feel as though it was a worthwhile topic that didn't get the response it deserved." in an effort to bait anyone who may have thought about it but didn't post for whatever reason. Just don't make yourself a nuisance doing it too often.

Quote:

Original post by Ravyne Now, the problem is two-fold: People who are interested in AI may not venture too far from the AI forum, so they may not even see these great AI threads in your forum, let alone add to them. The second problem is one of searchability: if I'm researching information on graphics, I'm going to limit the search to the graphics forums. Period -- just like now, I don't search for graphics info in General Programming or the Lounge.

Really? I search everything I just type the key words and did not ever put subforums limit... I thought everybody searches, and those who daily reads AI subforums for example are the gurus that answers or those who are just exploring , those would appreciate Ideas forum, it would be a nice forum to just "browse and read and seek without search engine".... those who use search engines, do not care for what subforum an atractive thread is from. I am lucky to find what I need, so I would never think of limits, I rather write the key words more precise, even in lounge can be info, link, stuff about the topic.

Quote:

Original post by Ravyne I did think about your idea, and in my estimation it would only be a home for half-formed thoughts.

It might get discussed becouse of this :).

Quote:

Original post by Ravyne Lets say, for the sake of discussion that you have your forum, and some really great threads come out of it -- as well as lots of stinkers. Now, stinkers we don't care about other than the fact that they drive down the signal-to-noise ratio, but the great ones we do.

The stinkers would get help- they would realize that their idea they had was not what they intended or would not work. For example, Ian-L might show up and criticise my light example I posted, down to the ground. He would save me so much time, others too, and he would also explain a different concept that he can think of and the concept would work becouse Ian-L was thinking about the aimed of the idea :)
This forum would help users, those who post and those who read as well. I think this is capital aim of gamedev.net after all.
I think that this forum might bring some concepts that game developers deals with and shed light on their work-flow. I mean, entering this subby would mean "now I will take a look at stuff that somebody thinks is wise and helpfull and he wants us to know about it ". I would visit every time and I would think about a variety of game related themes reading it. I would enjoy so much.

Get a journal?

I agree with Ravyne (except about hating Twitter). I see no benefit from an "ideas" forum. It's just cross-cutting the subject matter for all the other forums, which will make things harder to follow for users and harder to moderate for staff.

You seem to think this forum would "give everybody a chance" in some fashion, by somehow encouraging more response to and discussion about every thread in said forum. That is not how forums work, and it will never be how forums work. There will always be threads that fall to the bottom of the heap because the original post is insipid or uninspiring. Or just poorly written and impossible to read.

We only create additional forums when there are a significant number of threads pertaining to the topic appearing elsewhere on the forums. Your forum does not cover a topic, it covers a class of post. That is not how we organize threads here, and likely never will be.

With V5's upcoming tagging system, you can tag posts "idea" all you like and create your customized forum view that will show you all the "idea" posts, and anybody else who deems such a thing useful could do that too -- but it would only be local to their view of the forums. There's no reason for us to implement this globally.

thanks.

Aren't Game "Ideas" already posted in Game Design?

Quote:

Original post by Alpha_ProgDes Aren't Game "Ideas" already posted in Game Design?

I think he is talking more about programming ideas.