Healthcare bill

Well, based on the information on wikipedia and the media, the US health care needs perhaps some kind of review.

Some quotes from Wikipedia:

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At least 15% of the population is completely uninsured,[1][2][3] and a substantial additional portion of the population (21%) is "underinsured", or not able to cover the costs of their medical needs

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The US pays twice as much yet lags behind other wealthy nations in such measures as infant mortality and life expectancy...

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According to the Institute of Medicine of the United States National Academies, the United States is the "only wealthy, industrialized nation that does not ensure that all citizens have coverage" (i.e. some kind of insurance).[20][21] The same Institute of Medicine report notes that "Lack of health insurance causes roughly 18,000 unnecessary deaths every year in the United States."

I think it's ridiculous that a nation calling itself "the greatest in the world" has a situation whereby something ridiculous like 1/10th of its population have no access to proper healthcare.

From my own observations, it appears that it's the idiotic ambulance chasing mob who are the only people who could possibly go against something like this.

Even North Korea has free healthcare, FFS. Granted their healthcare infrastructure is virtually non-existent and your bathroom medicine cabinet is better equipped than the best hospital in Pyongyang, but at least their citizens don't have to pay.

North Korea. see?!? Communism.

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Original post by oliii North Korea. see?!? Communism.

Not quite. North Korea follows a system called "Juche" (self-reliance) which is a deeply warped and deeply flawed interpretation of Communism.

Kim Il Sung got many things right but that wasn't one of them. China is Communist and look at how well it's doing.

Without gov-run healthcare both me and my brother would be dead, so I'ld say its about time the USA be heading down that road. I find it terrible to think that someone, anyone, getting a broken leg would have to choose between going to the hospital and putting food on the table...

The economic argument speaks for itself.

As for the silly communist arguments, I think this link sums it up

Healthcare should be more like education in the US. But instead it's more like car insurance where whether or not you have a car, you still get charged car insurance.

For that alone, I'd want it to fail.

One question though: what exactly is the "public option"? That was never too clear to me.

Speaking as a Canadian, I find it utterly ludicrous that there are people in such a situation that if they should break their leg outside of work, they will be forced to sell their car to pay for the expenses.

We're not talking hyper-expensive cancer treatments or massively invasive optional surgical procedures. We're talking about someone breaking their leg and putting themselves in debt. Why does this exist in what is supposedly the world's richest country?

From what I'm understanding, the argument on the right is that they should implement tort reform in order to minimize doctors' legal liability. I can't believe doctors getting sued is actually that much of the cost of doing healthcare in the US (I've heard only about 1.5 - 2% from various sources).

One of the big reasons GM/Chrysler went under earlier last year is because of their massive healthcare legacy costs; back in the 1950s GM opposed socialized healthcare because they believed they could do it better and cheaper than the United States government. It translated into overhead of $1600 a car. $1600 is a lot of money - it's the difference between a Sunfire and a Civic.

I seriously struggle to figure out the source of the opposition to this, outside of the usual conservative rhetoric of "the government can't do anything right." It seems like such a slamdunk - and it's been needed for literally decades.

The watered-down form of the bill that's going to pass is not what I would consider "ideal" for the USA - forcing people to have insurance or pay "a fine" seems like a pretty juicy handout to the insurance companies. It does make some nice inroads - banning the ability for insurance companies to discriminate based on what they consider "pre-existing conditions" is going to solve a lot of problems with people who already have insurance, from what I've heard.

e: So how does this work from now on? The House makes and passes the bill, the President signs it, and then the Senate reviews it? Can the Senate send it back like the Canadian Senate can?

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Original post by MatsVed Is the US finally going to become the next Communist Russia?

I'm assuming that, unlike some of your less literate countrymen/countrywomen, that you're sarcastic..
But if that where true, then all the other wealthy democratic nations in the world are all secretly communistic, and america is the last bastion of democracy in the world....

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Original post by Steadtler As for the silly communist arguments, I think this link sums it up

LOL

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Original post by Ravuya e: So how does this work from now on? The House makes and passes the bill, the President signs it, and then the Senate reviews it? Can the Senate send it back like the Canadian Senate can?

President signs a bill into law. It's the last step.

">Bill

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Original post by Sirisian Quote: Original post by Ravuya e: So how does this work from now on? The House makes and passes the bill, the President signs it, and then the Senate reviews it? Can the Senate send it back like the Canadian Senate can? President signs a bill into law. It's the last step. ">Bill

That's where I thought it ended, but the news was talking about it going before the senate for something or other (maybe just a vigorous session of old guys yelling at each other). Thanks.

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Original post by ukdeveloper I think it's ridiculous that a nation calling itself "the greatest in the world" has a situation whereby something ridiculous like 1/10th of its population have no access to proper healthcare.

Absolutely agree. My brother, sister, and an uncle are uninsured. My best friend with leukemia was also uninsured during her first treatment a few years ago. Chemotherapy drugs are damn expensive.

I've seen a lot of faulty arguments stating that we'll be now supporting drug addicts and illegal aliens with this new health-reform bill, but people forget that their own family and friends may also need help.

Reuters summary

Although under this plan there still appear to be laws in place that force businesses to contribute to the healthcare of their employees, it seems like this plan at least gives individuals a chance to get (affordable?) healthcare on their own. Hopefully, those state health insurance exchanges (2014) will grant individuals greater purchasing power than they have through their employer, so that we can get rid of the link between employment and healthcare.

In my (small business that actually cares about its employees) experience, the healthcare benefits paid by the employer come straight out of the pot that would've otherwise gone to the employed. And the primary question asked by employees being laid off is, "What about my health insurance?"

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Original post by mutex I've seen a lot of faulty arguments stating that we'll be now supporting drug addicts and illegal aliens with this new health-reform bill, but people forget that their own family and friends may also need help.

Not to mention that it's likely cheaper to treat drug addicts than to incarcerate them, and likely more effective to provide proper healthcare for illegal aliens if the alternative is them swallowing up emergency care hospitals.

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Original post by LogicalError But if that where true, then all the other wealthy democratic nations in the world are all secretly communistic, and america is the last bastion of democracy in the world....

I've always liked comments like this one for just how twisted they are.

The USA has never been a Democracy! It is a Republic!

And besides, democracy or lack there of has nothing to do with communism/capitalism. Democracy has to do with how a government is elected, while communism/capitalism has to do with the economic organization.


What I really love is the people who are going on about how universal health care will completely bankrupt the US, and how everyone will be swimming in debt!

I was banned from one forum the other day when I pointed out that Canada has had universal health care for about 60 years or something, and our debt for each person is about 1/3 of the USA's currently.

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Original post by Talroth What I really love is the people who are going on about how universal health care will completely bankrupt the US, and how everyone will be swimming in debt! I was banned from one forum the other day when I pointed out that Canada has had universal health care for about 60 years or something, and our debt for each person is about 1/3 of the USA's currently.

I do worry that this compromised plan will have left too many loopholes and that the cost will be higher than anticipated. If we don't find a way to save money elsewhere, I have a feeling your debt for each person will soon be even less than a third of the USA's.

You guys are missing A TON of points. I followed this bill and read some of the factual points in the PDF online.

So...first to the foreigners. The US was at one point the best biggest nation. To compare us to China....

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China is Communist and look at how well it's doing.

Seriously, China has treated its people so bad in the past. The only reason they are doing so well is because people in the US are bankrupting the US. Everything in the US is made in China, so if we had less idiots in charge of companies and less gov't restrictions, we could keep those jobs here. We just gave 80% of our own solar job money to China...so sorry but you are wrong. Also China's counts its GDP after a product is made, not sold. And I have not looked up the facts of this point but China's natural resource usage has not gone up enough to say they are doing great. IE you sell more cars you need more gas...

As for healthcare.
1.)I just lost health coverage with my parents and decided not to get it because I am 23. It just cost me 40 bucks for a doctor visit and 60 for a blood test. So some people don't actually need/want it. Or they already have a plan, so why are we forcing citizens onto ANY idea/product that they dont want?

2.)The US doesn't have the money to do it.

3.)They just hired 16,000 IRS agents to "crack down" on people that don't follow their text book rules.

4.)The government is setting all the rules. Look at the mammogram rule. Think of the govt as its own health insurance. Your in debt -11 trillion, your going to cut corners EVERYWHERE. Again see mammogram rule.

5.) Lets look at this bizarre thing. (1) Governance and the establishment of a world government, (2) Population and reproduction control. Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature. Pretty sure that someone with money and flawed ideas wants us dead anyway.

And the post above mine is a perfect example of why we can't stop at health-care. Better education is another big problem to tackle.

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Original post by dpadam450 1.)I just lost health coverage with my parents and decided not to get it because I am 23. It just cost me 40 bucks for a doctor visit and 60 for a blood test. So some people don't actually need/want it. Or they already have a plan, so why are we forcing citizens onto ANY idea/product that they dont want?

the problem is, the moment you want it, it's too late. if you would know i've an accident in 10 years, i better save money for it now, then all would be fine. but you don't know. people never know.

and the cost of "fixing afterwards" for you will be much higher than the some bucks spent into preemptive healthcare.



posted from a country where i never have to bother about issues i have no fault in. i get saved, i get financed until i'll get up again. and i gladly pay for that savety. and because we all pay for that savety (which is an AWESOME feeling btw), the cost is very low. greetings from switzerland.

And the main problem is that its not right or wrong. As everybody has said, better health care system is needed. Better government,schooling is needed as well. I don't think the republicans would have spent the time to come up with a plan though.