🔒 Locked

You Americans - please explain (rant/discussion inside)

Started by irreversible May 26, 2010 at 10:23 AM 82 replies 17.9k views

Original Post

May 26, 2010 at 10:23 AM

I've been watching a lot of The Daily Show with Jon Stewart lately (I went back to 2009 and started watching old episodes pretty much for the heck of it as they're all available online and differently from the likes of, say, NBC, Comedy Central's streams are available here). While all that is largely irrelevant and doesn't get me too up to speed with what is happening with you guys across the pond, my very short and concrete question remains: how the hell is something like Fox News even possible in our known universe? Or am I really misunderstanding the bias by such an incredible degree here (and Orwell's 1984 wasn't fiction!?)? I'm not asking why anyone would watch it - there's always someone. But. But but but. An example: May '09 - a bunch of Republicans eat at a pizza joint (in Arizona AFAIR), so Obama goes out for some chow of his own in what happens to be a burger joint. So, coverage ensues with CNN adlibing 5 minutes on sauce and pricing. Fox News, on the other hand, airs the clip with the info bar saying... hold on, let me center and boldify this, because it really is beyond the most fantastic reach of imagination I could ever have: OBAMA MURDERS COW TO ENJOY PAGAN LUNCH! Yeah! Now that's reporting to you right there! This is only one of the more vibrant examples of what Fox has aired, though also one of the most brilliantly bizarre ones I've seen thus far (a more recent pearl is the logo analysis of the Nuclear Security Summit - see original broadcast on Fox and Stewart's brilliant ownage of the analysis). I mean, each media outlet has some bias, but Fox seems to go through bias straight into propaganda and the world of sheer silly (read: retarded). PS - I really love it when Stewart owns people (Jim Cramer or Sean Hannity to name a few off the top of my head). When he goes after someone he never fails to pull down their pants, then their knickers and finally burn them at the stake. Which brings me to... PPS - I want Stewart's research team. For a toy. Seriously - they do a fantastically kickass job almost every time. Yes, they quite often butcher the context, but given the show's fast-paced and comedic format they're entitled to some creative liberty for the sake of getting a greater point across.

Silvermyst

May 26, 2010 at 10:30 AM

Quote:
Original post by irreversible
An example: May '09 - a bunch of Republicans eat at a pizza joint (in Arizona AFAIR), so Obama goes out for some chow of his own in what happens to be a burger joint. So, coverage ensues with CNN adlibing 5 minutes on sauce and pricing. Fox News, on the other hand, airs the clip with the info bar saying... hold on, let me center and boldify this, because it really is beyond the most fantastic reach of imagination I could ever have:

OBAMA MURDERS COW TO ENJOY PAGAN LUNCH!

If I had to choose between the CNN and Fox coverage of the incredibly important event of Obama at a burger joint, I think I'd pick the pagan lunch coverage. Good thing I don't own a TV, because either sounds like a waste of 5 minutes of my life.

Hardcharger

May 26, 2010 at 10:32 AM

Why do you generalize Americans as a whole because some media outlet is silly?

Prinz Eugn

May 26, 2010 at 10:45 AM

Quote:
Original post by irreversible
...they quite often butcher the context, but given the show's fast-paced and comedic format they're entitled to some creative liberty for the sake of getting a greater point across.

Yes, I concur, propaganda is only good when you agree with it...

Anyway, the US is much more right-wing than Europe, which often doesn't come through since many media outlets are more centered. Plus bible-thumping grandmas still haven't figured out the interwebs yet, so if your online a lot you get a sort of skewed view of the political spectrum. But they're there.

In my home town, they voted down a bill that would allow the UN to put a local National Monument (like a park -> White Sands National Monument) on their list of world heritage sites... a list. I was told with a straight face by my sister's boyfriend (who works for the Forest Service) that it was because since it was a UN site, they would have to bring in UN troops and Chinese troops to "even it out". I shit you not, sir. Basically, the majority of voters have a severe misunderstanding of what the UN actually is.

irreversible

May 26, 2010 at 10:46 AM

Quote:
Original post by Hardcharger
Why do you generalize Americans as a whole because some media outlet is silly?

Please quote me - at which point do I generalize the American people? In the thread title? That's not a generalization - the thread is about a news show that Americans watch and the rest of the world doesn't nearly as much because it's... American. In short - I'm primarily addressing Americans with a question, not talking about the people.

way2lazy2care

May 26, 2010 at 10:48 AM

To be fair there's stupid news on both sides of the aisle. I can't remember if CNBC or MSNBC is the other bad one. I watch neither because they are both stupid. I saw Rachel Maddow trying to explain the filibuster by using basketball and changing the height of the hoop as a metaphor, of course blaming it all on the republicans.

The reason it exists is because it's more interesting, though less correct, than unbiased news.

turnpast

May 26, 2010 at 10:50 AM

Quote:
Original post by Hardcharger
Why do you generalize Americans as a whole because some media outlet is silly?

Presumably because some media outlet professes to represent all true Americans and because some media outlet seems to exert an absurdly large amount of influence in the American political system or at least in the dialog surrounding the political system.

Silvermyst

May 26, 2010 at 10:58 AM

Quote:
Original post by Prinz Eugn
In my home town, they voted down a bill that would allow the UN to put a local National Monument (like a park -> White Sands National Monument) on their list of world heritage sites... a list.

Why would the UN need permission to put something on a list?

Prinz Eugn

May 26, 2010 at 11:03 AM

Quote:
Original post by Silvermyst
Quote:
Original post by Prinz Eugn
In my home town, they voted down a bill that would allow the UN to put a local National Monument (like a park -> White Sands National Monument) on their list of world heritage sites... a list.

Why would the UN need permission to put something on a list?

Not sure how the process works exactly, but I found an actual article on the subject here: White Sands UNESCO Story

LessBread

May 26, 2010 at 11:06 AM

Fox News is possible because Rupert Murdoch has a lot of money to make it possible. Fox News is the way it is because Murdoch put a known Republican political operative named Roger Ailes in charge of the channel and he crafted it into the propaganda arm of the party. "Fox argues that its news hours — 9 a.m. to 4 p.m. and 6 to 8 p.m. on weekdays — are objective." * -- Only 9 hours of news a day, just enough to thinly disguise the propaganda, and Fox News is proud of it. America puts up with it because it has grown used to it **. The propaganda isn't without cost to those it benefits: "Republicans originally thought that Fox worked for us and now we're discovering we work for Fox. And this balance here has been completely reversed. The thing that sustains a strong Fox network is the thing that undermines a strong Republican party." ***

Roger Ailes (8 February 2010)
A Fox Chief at the Pinnacle of Media and Politics (January 9, 2010)
Roger Ailes is the real head of the GOP (Jan 25, 2010)
Roger Ailes lies about Glenn Beck: 'Slaughtering' remark was about progressives in the White House (Feb 01, 2010)
Why don't honest journalists take on Roger Ailes and Fox News? (March 14, 2010)
* Fox’s Volley With Obama Intensifying (October 11, 2009)
Fox's news programs echo its "opinion" shows: Smears, doctored videos, GOP talking points (October 13, 2009)
Fox admits only nine hours a day of programming is ‘news,’ Daily Show notes (October 30th, 2009)
** The Most Biased Name in News (July/August 2001)
*** David Frum on GOP: Now We Work for Fox (March 23, 2010)

And now to quote Joe Strummer:

...Yankee dollar talkTo the dictators of the worldIn fact it's giving ordersAn' they can't afford to miss a wordI'm so bored with the U...S...A...But what can I do?Yankee detectivesAre always on the TV'Cos killers in AmericaWork seven days a weekNever mind the stars and stripesLet's print the Watergate TapesI'll salute the New WaveAnd I hope nobody escapesI'm so bored with the U...S...A...But what can I do?...

owl

May 26, 2010 at 11:08 AM

Quote:
Original post by Hardcharger
Why do you generalize Americans as a whole because some media outlet is silly?

Yes, really. I'm American (South American) and I have nothing to do with Obama murdering his food! lol

LessBread

May 26, 2010 at 11:23 AM

Quote:
Original post by way2lazy2care
To be fair there's stupid news on both sides of the aisle. I can't remember if CNBC or MSNBC is the other bad one. I watch neither because they are both stupid. I saw Rachel Maddow trying to explain the filibuster by using basketball and changing the height of the hoop as a metaphor, of course blaming it all on the republicans. The reason it exists is because it's more interesting, though less correct, than unbiased news.

Maddow's metaphor was goofy, but her facts were correct. Senate Republicans have been abusing the filibuster in a major way since they lost the majority. Their obstruction has been equivalent to raising the height of a basketball hoop to 20 feet. Minority rule has replaced majority rule and the result is stagnation and paralysis in response to a number of crucial issues facing the nation.

Senate Action on Cloture Motions

The Rise Of Cloture: How GOP Filibuster Threats Have Changed The Senate

Why Senate Filibuster Rules Must be Changed

Testimony for the Senate Rules Committee on the Modern Filibuster

Christopher Loyd

May 26, 2010 at 11:25 AM

To be honest, in our office setting the news is always on. The Armed Forces Network(AFN, which is basically military TV) has CNN, MSNBC, and FOX on pretty much all day long.

I don't really pay attention to it much, like some have said it's propaganda. Alot of the military stories that they report on come with skewed information and always make the military look bad in some form or another. That being said, CSPAN and Bloomberg are two channels that I do in fact watch...seeing the actual senate/house debates on CSPAN in it's purest form is where I get most of my information.

Almost all major news in the US is biased in some form or another, it's almost as if news is more entertainment now, then news. They put what people like or think they want to hear.

BTW, love the George Orwell's 1984 comparison, wake up world...this is almost the point we're at :)

BerwynIrish

May 26, 2010 at 11:32 AM

On Stewart: His show is great, but even he and his writers have internalized some right-wing BS, like how he always refers to the Gitmo prisoners as terrorists as though it's a fact that they all are, and he uses the euphemistic "detainees" instead of "prisoners."

Quote:
Original post by LessBread
Quote:
Original post by way2lazy2care
To be fair there's stupid news on both sides of the aisle. I can't remember if CNBC or MSNBC is the other bad one. I watch neither because they are both stupid. I saw Rachel Maddow trying to explain the filibuster by using basketball and changing the height of the hoop as a metaphor, of course blaming it all on the republicans. The reason it exists is because it's more interesting, though less correct, than unbiased news.

Maddow's metaphor was goofy, but her facts were correct.

Come on Lessbread, you know the facts have a liberal bias, and shame on Maddow for reporting them.

A thread about Fox News littered with false equivalencies? I'm shocked.

LessBread

May 26, 2010 at 1:42 PM

Quote:
Original post by BerwynIrish
Quote:
Original post by LessBread
Maddow's metaphor was goofy, but her facts were correct.

Come on Lessbread, you know the facts have a liberal bias, and shame on Maddow for reporting them.

Yeah, and long live Rand Paul! [lol]

zedz

May 26, 2010 at 3:08 PM

Quote:
Original post by Hardcharger
Why do you generalize Americans as a whole because some media outlet is silly?

He wasnt but anyways
what is most scary is Fox News is the most watched TV news media in the US!!
No one can feel comfortable with this fact

Silvermyst

May 26, 2010 at 3:30 PM

Quote:
Original post by zedz
what is most scary is Fox News is the most watched TV news media in the US!!
No one can feel comfortable with this fact

About as many people watch CNN/MSNBC/CNBC (combined). And we're talking about 1% of the population at any one time.

ChaosEngine

May 26, 2010 at 3:53 PM

Quote:
Original post by LessBread
...
"Fox argues that its news hours — 9 a.m. to 4 p.m. and 6 to 8 p.m. on weekdays — are objective." * -- Only 9 hours of news a day, just enough to thinly disguise the propaganda, and Fox News is proud of it.

...

It's actually even better than that. Fox divides it's programming into editorial (Bill O'Reilly, Beck the loon and Sean Inanity) and news. The editorial guys are pretty much free to say whatever they want without any kind of fact-checking because it's opinion. Then the news programs report on the same opinion, i.e. "Some say Obama is a communist muslim atheist nazi!", as if it came from a different source!

It's borderline evil genius.

Aethix

May 26, 2010 at 4:22 PM

I watch Fox News, because it reports on the stories that no other news outlet does. Recently, a large number of SEIU Union employees held a protest outside the private home of a Bank of America Employee while his 14-year-old son was hiding in the bathroom. As far as I know, neither CNN or MSNBC has reported on this, at least not on television.

Just my two cents, feel free to agree with me or disagree with me.

Christopher Loyd

May 26, 2010 at 4:23 PM

Quote:
Original post by ChaosEngine
Quote:
Original post by LessBread
...
"Fox argues that its news hours — 9 a.m. to 4 p.m. and 6 to 8 p.m. on weekdays — are objective." * -- Only 9 hours of news a day, just enough to thinly disguise the propaganda, and Fox News is proud of it.

...

It's actually even better than that. Fox divides it's programming into editorial (Bill O'Reilly, Beck the loon and Sean Inanity) and news. The editorial guys are pretty much free to say whatever they want without any kind of fact-checking because it's opinion. Then the news programs report on the same opinion, i.e. "Some say Obama is a communist muslim atheist nazi!", as if it came from a different source!

It's borderline evil genius.

I don't believe a word he says, and I definitely don't use him as a source -- taking everything he says with a grain of salt. But I have this weird affinity with watching Glen Beck. He's like some mad scientist.

BTW, Rachael Maddow annoys the absolute F out of me. Why can't the hot blonde from FOX news have her own show like she does -sigh-

Topic Locked

This topic has been locked by a moderator. New replies are not allowed.