Advice for a frustrated student?

Yes.

With regard to your assignment: Suck it up and do it. Right now. If you get your shit together later and decide "Oh, crap, I DO want to do this for my life." Then it will be very hard to go back in time decide to not fail the assignment. You'll be stuck with the consequences if you don't do it right now.

With regard to inspiration: Find some project that really interests you and work on it on the side. Pick something that requires learning, requires a challenge, and do that. Combine it with learning a new language, or a new skill. Make sure whatever you pick it has some research/problem solving component, but also that its easy enough for you to see results immediately (NO HUGE MMO!). That will help you remember what got you interested in this in the first place and hopefully keep you inspired.

Take a year off, get laid, then see how you feel.

Seriously; it doesnt sound to me like your problem is with programming; its with a general sense of pointlessness. There are few humans who can subsist on computers alone; dont feel bad for not being one of them.

Aim to get other parts of your life on track first (and doing the uni assignments on the side shouldnt be a real issue if this is what youve been doing all your life), and once youve got that down, who knows? Maybe youll find yourself frantically hacking away at your code to show your girlfriend what you are capable of.

Either way, I dont think the solutions lies in finding a different carreer, or that you have wasted your time so far. If you cant find motivation in computers alone (and which adult can), broaden your life and find something else to give meaning to the means.

Your mental health is paramount.


You need to get that solved first, as a very, very high priority. In all likelihood, the rest will fall into place relatively easily after that.

You could get away as well. Well, that requires money.
I was in a bit similar situation. I liked my profession a bit, but not that much. I wastes my life: I didn't study hard, but didn't go out and live either. I was just hanging. Little bit of depression, lethargy, boredom, a bit of social phobia, never had a girlfriend etc.
But I could save money by student loan and scholarship, so I got away and moved abroad. I couldn't make it: I couldn't get a job, couldn't get friends (I mean real friends, not the English word) because I lived in poverty. But I loved it, if I could have make it, I would have stayed and would have been happy I think. I mean that was the only thing that was promising.
But no success, so now, I'm back in the same shit again [grin]
But I learned a lot, so the lesson is: I don't know what the lesson is. I'll go back and try again.

The fact that you dabbled a lot with computers and such in the past shows that you have at least some exposure to amateur game development. It is an accumulation of skill and knowledge that is worth holding onto, and perhaps it's something you carry over to different disciplines, or field of interest (if you happen to have a career change, for instance). That in itself is something to be proud of, and in some cases that gives you a good head-start.

It seems that your struggle is not about what you missed out. It's not about whether you are capable of performing. Nor about whether you ever be able to achieve anything meaningful in the future. The problem is this:

I've been battling depression for the last 10 years of my life.

You are being debilitated by a mental condition which pretty much prevents you from operating at your full potential in life. What I'm implying here is that you are probably perfectly capable of achieving lot meaningful things in life, but depression is holding you back. So don't criticise your skills and all that, be critical of your condition.

Therefore, you must find a way to overcome depression first and foremost. If you can do that, your outlook in life can be quite different to what you have now. Try not to be consumed about what you could have been and all that jazz. It's really not that important. What matters is what you can do right NOW for creating a future that is more aligned with your dreams.

Easier said than done, of course. I'm also over generalising here, as I have next to no knowledge about your history. All I can say is that keep trying to overcome that depression and seek as much professional opinion as you can on how you can address that nasty problem. Unfortunately there are shit psychiatrists who like to shower you with pills, and then there are good ones who can actually help effectively... you just have to shop around.

Just hang in there!

Agree with the above. The problem is your current mental health issues and on the plus side the first step to handling those is to recognise that you have a problem. You have already taken a major step in the right direction by talking to your doctor. I am sure they have told you but in addition to drugs try making lifestyle changes too.
Sugar - i know from experience that large quantities of sugar cause depression - cut out sweets and soda from your diet.
Sleep - regular sleep is also important. lack of sleep is another cause of depression.
Alcohol - I know it is starting to sound like a depressing life with no sweets, booze and late nights.
Exercise - generate happy hormones by going for a run/work out.

good luck

lets turn this into a confession reunion.

reply to first row:
i spent most of my youth making fun in class! i had lots of friends, spent most of my time drinking ale with them & lol. i figured out that fun can be addictive just like anything else, so now i spend my time programming because i have gained something called "self control". alcohol/drugs are things that can mess up a persons moods (in the long run). i would also say find a real shrink & learn to meditate! reunite with your family maybe, or find some friends for the weekend.

reply to second row:
once i was passionate about music, and i've made more than a dozen professional sound tracks. i switched my hobby the moment i realised music was too easy. and i have been happy with that decision ever since. i hated maths, but programming made me find it interesting!

reply to third row:
programming is nothing like playing games. as a matter of fact, once i got into programming i completely lost interest in "playing games", and found making them most fun. and about the depression try: going to a gym. meditating. sober up and stay that way (if you are not). stay with people that love you. live for yourself & in the present, not for others or yesterday. i could go on but i won't...

reply to fourth row:
life is like a wheel that keeps spining in one direction, and it will stay that way until you change it for the better, or worst. the only way "you" are going to be successful in this life is by working hard! that's how it should be looked at.

reply to fifth row:
do what you believe is in your best interest. life is like a program, designed and built from the ground up!

reply to sixth row:
you gotta look at it this way; friends are no good! and you have not wasted your youth, i wasted mine with my friends & i wish i spent all that time coding! but i still have a friend or two to hang out with, and that can be fun once in a while.


Read my advice and let me know what you think. Good luck.

[Edited by - toony on October 31, 2010 8:58:40 PM]

Sleep is important. Three months in a mental ward due to undiagnosed sleep apnea which induced depression taught me that... It's very easy to slide from where you are right now into a very dark and unhappy place. If my own experience with "mental issues" is any indication of how easy it is for psychiatrists to treat the symptoms without understanding (or even LOOKING FOR) a basic physical cause, it's worth evaluating how healthy you are living right now. Make sure you're getting a good nights sleep, make sure you're eating relatively healthy, make sure you are getting a little exercise every day, and make sure you get sunlight (seasonal depression is also a real thing that can be caused by lack of exposure to natural sunlight.)

Talk to a school counselor, make sure they are aware of your condition, see if you can get some money back for your current courses if you are on track to fail them. Take a semester off and try to get your mental health in check. It is the absolute base requirement for everything else, you can't push it or rush it, and you should really take things one step at a time.

I do guarantee tackling the stress of doing poorly in school alongside (and largely because of) depression is recipe for failure and that in itself is depressing, so cutting out the unnecessary difficulty for now is a good temporary fix. Trying not to create a feedback loop of failure is a good first step.

Finally I'll follow up with a bit of personal projection. I was completely unaware my quality of sleep was abysmal. All that I knew was that I had no energy or enjoyment for anything I used to, and I always wanted to go to sleep instead of doing anything else. I didn't feel "tired" because I lost sense of what feeling tired was like. If you've been down the drug route with no success consider getting a professional sleep study as sleep apnea often causes depressive symptoms.

Welcome to life kid. You just ran into the wall I like to call reality. Sometimes you just have to suck it up and do what you "HAVE" to do, so someday, you can do what you "WANT" to do. It is simply a choice. You might not like the options of the choice, but that isn't an excuse to not make a choice and stick to it. If after you are finished and still feel the same way, then, move to something else, but at least you will have something in your portfolio that you can use until something more appealing comes along.

If you are having issues with your mental health, a message board is the wrong place to find help. Seek a counselor and get the help you may need. I truly hope it all works out for you.

Quote:

Original post by IronGryphon Welcome to life kid. You just ran into the wall I like to call reality. Sometimes you just have to suck it up and do what you "HAVE" to do, so someday, you can do what you "WANT" to do. It is simply a choice. You might not like the options of the choice, but that isn't an excuse to not make a choice and stick to it. If after you are finished and still feel the same way, then, move to something else, but at least you will have something in your portfolio that you can use until something more appealing comes along. If you are having issues with your mental health, a message board is the wrong place to find help. Seek a counselor and get the help you may need. I truly hope it all works out for you.

Not only are you being brash and insensitive, you clearly have no understanding of how mental health works. There is no sucking it up and doing what you "HAVE" to do when you are clinically depressed. It isn't something you can simply get over without intervention.

Your brain is a physical part of you and it is subject to malfunction like anything else in your body. When there's a problem with your ability to reason you cannot simply reason yourself out of the hole you find yourself in. It is not "simply a choice" as you suggest it is.

If you had a friend with a broken leg who was scheduled to run a marathon you wouldn't tell them to suck it up buttercup and run that race. You'd tell them to get better and take their time. You don't tell a quadriplegic to man up and climb some stairs.

I appreciate that you follow up your ridiculous statements with suggestions to talk to a counselor, but he is clearly already seeing a psychiatrist.

Seriously, fail.

-- until you grow up a bit.

And if someone has really lost interest in something, I don't see any reason to continue. If one can decide, which one can't do if one has mental/psychological problems.
So I made no sense....

Quote:

Original post by M2tM Your brain is a physical part of you and it is subject to malfunction like anything else in your body. When there's a problem with your ability to reason you cannot simply reason yourself out of the hole you find yourself in. It is not "simply a choice" as you suggest it is. If you had a friend with a broken leg who was scheduled to run a marathon you wouldn't tell them to suck it up buttercup and run that race. You'd tell them to get better and take their time. You don't tell a quadriplegic to man up and climb some stairs. I appreciate that you follow up your ridiculous statements with suggestions to talk to a counselor, but he is clearly already seeing a psychiatrist. Seriously, fail. -- until you grow up a bit.

Nice rant but unwarranted. I may have been direct but I was not rude. Life is tough no matter what your situation and some people have different ways of coping with it. So while I appreciate your attempt to shield this young man from "my" suggestions, that he asked for by the way, your venom and trolling would be better used on someone else.

Quote:

Original post by IronGryphon Quote: Original post by M2tM Your brain is a physical part of you and it is subject to malfunction like anything else in your body. When there's a problem with your ability to reason you cannot simply reason yourself out of the hole you find yourself in. It is not "simply a choice" as you suggest it is. If you had a friend with a broken leg who was scheduled to run a marathon you wouldn't tell them to suck it up buttercup and run that race. You'd tell them to get better and take their time. You don't tell a quadriplegic to man up and climb some stairs. I appreciate that you follow up your ridiculous statements with suggestions to talk to a counselor, but he is clearly already seeing a psychiatrist. Seriously, fail. -- until you grow up a bit. Nice rant but unwarranted. I may have been direct but I was not rude. Life is tough no matter what your situation and some people have different ways of coping with it. So while I appreciate your attempt to shield this young man from "my" suggestions, that he asked for by the way, your venom and trolling would be better used one someone else.

I'm being neither venomous nor trolling. I am also not attempting to shield anyone from anything, I'm simply implying you are out of your depth and talking out your ass. :)

You imply you were not being rude and I will grant you may believe that your blunt remarks were not, but they were dripping with hard-headed ignorance (while trying to dish out advice) and that's the real issue here. I don't rate people down often, certainly I let them know when I do and why, being rude was not the reason.

I've said all I need to, refute me if you like, I consider my opinion well stated and to the point. I'll gladly take the baseless and vindictive inevitable rep hit because honestly you're just plain wrong and unhelpful.

Quote:

Original post by szecs And if someone has really lost interest in something, I don't see any reason to continue. If one can decide, which one can't do if one has mental/psychological problems. So I made no sense....

I agree, but as he inferred, he does not have a job so either the state or someone else is paying for his college. If that is the case, he is obliged to not waste their money. Maybe college isn't the place to resolve mental instability...

Quote:

Original post by IronGryphon Quote: Original post by szecs And if someone has really lost interest in something, I don't see any reason to continue. If one can decide, which one can't do if one has mental/psychological problems. So I made no sense.... I agree, but as he inferred, he does not have a job so either the state or someone else is paying for his college. If that is the case, he is obliged to not waste their money. Maybe college isn't the place to resolve mental instability...

And having someone else pay his college and a profession he isn't interested in so probably he won't continue and take as career is better?

Thanks for your help everyone. I want to make clear that a programming forum isn't my primary form of therapy. However I wanted to get some opinions from programmers because they would know if what I'm going through is normal or not. I'm sure most University students get burned out but I feel completely exhausted. I had a complete breakdown in my second semester and dropped out. For about 6 months I was just totally out of it and doing nothing, basically but when I got back into it I still felt just as burned out as before.

I paid for my first year with the money I earned at my former jobs. My parents paid for last year and this year. I was lucky enough to have parents who set aside money for me to go to University and I'm very grateful for them.

It actually took years for me to admit I had a problem. After my first major depressive episode in high-school I never fully recovered and I was aware of that. The pills took the edge off but I was never the same emotionally as I was before. I just assumed things would get better as time progressed. I always told myself to suck it up and try harder when I failed but my best was never good enough and it caused huge problems with my self confidence.

My university has counselling services and I'm going to go tommorow and make an appointment. For the last year I've tried to do my best at school assuming the drugs would take care of my issues in time which hasn't happened. My experience ad your advice have convinced me to make my mental healthy my first priority. I'm going to drop this course as it's been driving me nuts and I don't see myself passing it. I think I can manage my other courses.

My physical health has actually been improving. I used to be a total sugar junkie but I managed to completely change my eating habits. I eat a lot of fruit now and drink only water. I've lost a lot of weight over the last year.

Thanks for the tip about sleep apnea, by the way. I'll look into it. I've also had sleep problems for a very long time. Mostly in the form of insomnia. Even if I do get a good night's rest I wake up feeling tired and bleary. I constantly feel fatigued even if I haven't had a hard day. I suspected the two were related but I thought it was my depression that caused the sleep disturbances.

Good luck, if it does turn out to be a sleeping disorder follow up with a PM or e-mail as I'm curious.

Quote:

Original post by M2tM Quote: Original post by IronGryphon Quote: Original post by M2tM Your brain is a physical part of you and it is subject to malfunction like anything else in your body. When there's a problem with your ability to reason you cannot simply reason yourself out of the hole you find yourself in. It is not "simply a choice" as you suggest it is. If you had a friend with a broken leg who was scheduled to run a marathon you wouldn't tell them to suck it up buttercup and run that race. You'd tell them to get better and take their time. You don't tell a quadriplegic to man up and climb some stairs. I appreciate that you follow up your ridiculous statements with suggestions to talk to a counselor, but he is clearly already seeing a psychiatrist. Seriously, fail. -- until you grow up a bit. Nice rant but unwarranted. I may have been direct but I was not rude. Life is tough no matter what your situation and some people have different ways of coping with it. So while I appreciate your attempt to shield this young man from "my" suggestions, that he asked for by the way, your venom and trolling would be better used one someone else. I'm being neither venomous nor trolling. I am also not attempting to shield anyone from anything, I'm simply implying you are out of your depth and talking out your ass. :)

While I agree depression is a serious issue, it doesn't mean you should roll over and give up. Not doing schoolwork isn't exactly the best way to get a decent job either (granted there are exceptions). At the end of the day adversity will make you stronger or weaker in the long run, and it's up to the person to decide which way it's going to take them.

@ the op: If it's just one class depending on the date you may or may not want to drop it. When I was in school if you drop after a certain date you get no refund, in which case it might be better for you to continue with the class and just not worry about it then retake it later. You'll soak up at least some info that will make it easier the second time around. Maybe the teacher will sympathize and let you sit in class even though you "dropped" it and you'll just get in incomplete instead of an F. It's different at every school, so it's something you'll have to look into.

Either way I'd recommend a lighter course load in the future if you're dealing with personal issues while schooling. I wouldn't recommend dropping out as I've had friends drop out for the same reason and it takes them years to get back into it if they ever do at all and they've mostly ended up regretting it.

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Original post by way2lazy2care While I agree depression is a serious issue, it doesn't mean you should roll over and give up. Not doing schoolwork isn't exactly the best way to get a decent job either (granted there are exceptions). At the end of the day adversity will make you stronger or weaker in the long run, and it's up to the person to decide which way it's going to take them.

Something that most people fail to understand about clinical depression is that this sort of thinking is not productive for someone who is depressed. It's all too easy to play armchair life coach and say "hey, look, just do what you need to do and get over it" when you've never struggled with the disease.

Depression makes it fundamentally impossible to do things that you know you need to do - or even want to do. If you perceive something as desirable or necessary, and fail to accomplish it (which is extremely likely when dealing with depression), it just makes you feel even worse.

One of the first and most important things to do when dealing with depression is to clear out as many goals, obligations, and personal demands as you possibly can. The less stuff there is to feel like you've screwed up, the more likely you are to be able to regain a positive attitude. Part of the difficulty of accepting and coping with depression is precisely this kind of "help" from outside sources; people tell you to just do it, to buckle down and suck it up, and they don't comprehend that you are not able to. So the more "advice" and "encouragement" of this kind one receives, the more likely one is to suffer from additional feelings of guilt, remorse, failure, abandonment, and eventually, utter isolation. It isn't pleasant to be around people who are constantly telling you (from your perspective) that you're fucking up your life and need to change - especially when you are literally powerless to make that change in the more severe cases.


For someone dealing with depression, it is paramount to first accept that one needs to simplify their life - even temporarily - to help recover from the illness. Once you can stop feeling guilty and negative about not doing things, you can reduce the stresses and demands on your life to a point where they are more manageable, and that goes a tremendously long way towards recovery. I'm not advocating just sitting around doing literally nothing - but lightening the load and minimizing the energy output you require of yourself is crucial.


I spent many, many years in a downward spiral of self-blame and despair because of well-meaning but ignorant and ultimately destructive advice like this. Forgive me if I'm a bit harsh about it, but as someone who has survived - and continues to battle - severe bipolar disorder, it hits very close to home.

I know how deadly it can be to be in a position where you are depressed, and to be told that it's within your power to fix - because it's not. That's precisely why it's a disease, and not just a bad attitude.