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Original post by Hodgman ...*insert joke about how SPU programming is hard and we're lazy*...

Side point, and ironic considerring my name, but does anyone else get pissed off when people call developers lazy? Especially considerring it's usually by people that are sitting on their couches surfing the internet all day.

I'm sure most people just ignore it, but it really irks me how little people appreciate or even realize how much work goes in to most games.

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Original post by Hodgman Quote: Original post by Alpha_ProgDes Quote: Original post by Hodgman If people stop buying PS3's/PS3 games, then maybe we can stop writing software for Cell chips! And why sir would we want to do that? ...*insert joke about how SPU programming is hard and we're lazy*...

*insert many long and detailed stories about how Sony makes the SPU hard to use thanks to their god awful APIs* ;)

I sometimes feel like posting them an Xbox360 devkit + XDK and a little note saying "See, _this_ is how you're supposed to do it"

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Original post by Daaark I own both of them. It's kind of a wash. Both machines are capable of the same things mostly. But there are pros and cons to each machine. A lot of games that Xbox360 can display at 1080p only run in 720p on the PS3. Xbox360 has 'free' 2X anti-aliasing, while the PS3 does not. The Xbox360 has a better gpu overall, and some games look much better on the 360 then they do on PS3. Mostly better lighting and shadows. It's strange to have to set up and configure some PS3 accessories, while they 'just work' on the 360. eg: The official 360 headset just plugs in and works. The official Sony headset has to be paired up on the blutooth device set up screen, and then configured to work as a headset elsewhere. The 360's system interface is well laid out, and easy to use. The PS3 cross-media bar interface is a sad joke in comparison. It's just a grid of cluttered lists. Playing the game I inserted (the most obvious default action) is actually the 7th option under the GAMES submenu. The whole OS just feels like some amateurs threw it together at the last minute. Xbox Live is a great, easy to use service. It's worth what you pay for it. It's easy to keep track of all your friends, what they are doing, and join their games. The shop is well laid out with screenshots, etc... And it's fast! PSN is horrible. It's slow to sign in. Slow to see your friends list (which has to be redone from scratch every time you check it, instead of being cached and updated), slow to see your trophies, and even slower to compare. The PSN store interface is just a list of white text on blue. When the new games come out, you have to go look them up on the net to find out what they are, because PSN has just a name and a download button. PS3 is a great bluray player, and is among the best bluray players available. It's constantly updated to the newest bluray spec, and can even play Bluray 3D titles. The only con is that it uses a lot more power than a standalone player. 360 has a low end DVD player, and at one time, a poor HD-DVD player add-on. The 360 still uses DVD and some games suffer for it, with low resolution, muddy textures. The PS3 versions of these games tend to have higher resolution textures, since space isn't an issue. Xbox Live may be better, and worth the price of admission, but it costs what a brand new game would cost just to be allowed on! PSN is free, and I can just buy a game instead and play with all my friends who are also on PSN because it's free. The fact that PSN is a bullshit, clunky, service doesn't mean anything once the game actually starts up. The PS3 also has an internet browser. You can use facebook, twitter, etc. On 360 you have to pay to use these things. The PS3 has a large hard drive by default. It's where all data is saved. Some 360 configurations are still sold without hard drives. So you get prompts to pick a storage device every time you save something on the 360. It tends to be a pain in the ass. The 360 hard drives are external, add on devices, and cost a TON (for very little space)! A PS3 can use off the shelf, cheap, third party, hard drives if you want to upgrade. Some PS3 games need to be installed, and it's a slow process. Then they need to be patched over SLOW PSN. A game that takes ten seconds to patch over Xbox Live, can take tens of minutes, or over an hour to patch over PSN. Between installing and patching, one of my games took an hour and a half to play. So it's kind of a wash. Most of the best games these days are cross platform anyways, and both machines are close enough in performance that you only have minor differences between versions. So you'll have the same experience either way.

^ I agree pretty much 100% with what this guys says. The only thing I'd add is that 90% of non AAA cross platform titles perform slightly better on the 360 than on the PS3. Eurogamer does an excellent match up of cross platform games and has pretty much the same conclusion. One other thing, the online community for the 360 is large enough that some of the less well known games still have functional online communities. For example the Transformers Game from the movie has( Not war for Cybertron) a large enough multiplayer community that allows you to find an online game when you want. PS3 is a ghost town for non AAA games.
I enjoy playing both transformers game and shadowrun game multiplayer on the 360 and both I can find games almost anytime I want. Games like that on the PS3 are near impossible to get a good online match going.

[Edited by - Spinoza on November 16, 2010 8:05:09 AM]

Xbox 360 has the whole XNA Gamestudio and Indie publishing thing going for it. It's not AAA or anything but a good starting point.

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Original post by NineYearCycle Quote: Original post by Hodgman Quote: Original post by Alpha_ProgDes Quote: Original post by Hodgman If people stop buying PS3's/PS3 games, then maybe we can stop writing software for Cell chips! And why sir would we want to do that? ...*insert joke about how SPU programming is hard and we're lazy*... *insert many long and detailed stories about how Sony makes the SPU hard to use thanks to their god awful APIs* ;) I sometimes feel like posting them an Xbox360 devkit + XDK and a little note saying "See, _this_ is how you're supposed to do it"

Uhm...

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Original post by Konfusius Quote: Original post by NineYearCycle Quote: Original post by Hodgman Quote: Original post by Alpha_ProgDes Quote: Original post by Hodgman If people stop buying PS3's/PS3 games, then maybe we can stop writing software for Cell chips! And why sir would we want to do that? ...*insert joke about how SPU programming is hard and we're lazy*... *insert many long and detailed stories about how Sony makes the SPU hard to use thanks to their god awful APIs* ;) I sometimes feel like posting them an Xbox360 devkit + XDK and a little note saying "See, _this_ is how you're supposed to do it" Uhm...

Didn't that guy get fired a year or two after launch? Plus, that's a stupid reason to make something difficult: "what would we do for 8 to 9 years if it was easy?". I think the architecture is interesting and hopefully the PS4 will continue the architecture --although with an easier to approach API if possible.

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Original post by way2lazy2care Quote: Original post by kryotech I myself have played both consoles and own a PS3. I like the PS3, and when you see the games that have been made exclusively for it, there are some seriously amazing games. My favorite example is of course Metal Gear Solid 4, and I guess Killzone 2 could be another example. So the right kind of effort put into the PS3 really does make it shine. Killzone 2 looks incredible, but I really don't see what people find so visually incredible in MGS4. It's a fine game n all, but I don't see how it's so widely regarded as a visual masterpiece. Might just be personal taste though.

MGS4 is not for everyone, that is true. I have met people who hated it, for various reasons.

Killzone 2 looks incredible, I wonder if people believe it looks better than Halo?

Though the idea that Sony intentionally made their console hard to develop for does seem a bit like something that would bite them. If you think about it though, Sony's console does have a lot of potential, despite the fact that it has a not so user friendly programming environment.

I see MGS4 at Wal-Mart all the time in the 20$ bin. I've picked it up a few times, but I always put it down again, because I have no interest in 30 minute cutscenes after every 10-15 minutes of play. The playable bits look really fun though.

What is the RSX performance like? It's obvious from just booting up any game that it's not in the same league as the 360's GPU, but how big is the gap? It's hard to tell when most titles target the lowest common denominator, and exclusives aren't directly comparable. It obviously doesn't have the fillrate to play a lot of games at 1080p or even 1080i.

Do people hate programming for the Cell because of the chip's architecture, or just Sony's API in general?

[Edited by - Daaark on November 17, 2010 1:09:27 AM]

Even setting up a PS3 dev kit correctly vs a 360 is quite a bit more involved.

Basically a simple installer for the Xbox, several disperate steps for the PS3, and then my HDMI cable wasn't even working when I first plugged it in! We're talking half a day vs half an hour.

You can skip the cutscenes. I did that a lot at some points in the game, just because the game got a bit tedious with it's cutscenes. :)