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Worth a buck

Started by Earthwalker Nov 27, 2011 at 2:27 AM 19 replies 4.2k views

Original Post

Nov 27, 2011 at 2:27 AM

I've had this idea bouncing around in my head for a while and I want to know what you guys think. I started off thinking about how hard it can be sometimes for the people who want to start earning money for their games but are not really sure how to get started. I know there are quite a few good places to sell games, especially the up and coming IndieCity, but I was kind of thinking of a smaller scale kind. I was inspired by the recent Gamemaker Halloween Jam where people create games over the weekend based on a one-word theme. LAWS was the last theme. Anyway, I got to thinking, "What if you were to have a jam, like, say monthly and earn money for your games?". So the "Worth a buck" idea came into being.

Basically, the first Monday of the month a theme would be announced and developers would have 2-3 weeks or so to make a game. Then the games are published onto a site. In the games themselves, when you complete the game, there would be a dialog that comes up asking if you thought the game was worth a buck. If you say yes, you are directed to the paypal site and so forth. If you say no then, well, nothing happens. You get a big sad face. Anyway, the developer could keep all of the profits. I was also thinking maybe the winning game, the one that earned the most money, might get an extra prize or something, I don't know. Or maybe everybody who enters could contribute some money and the winner would get it all.

The business could take an entry fee to make a profit and things like that so as to make it worth while. I don't think it would be terribly hard to set up. I'm also not sure whether the games should be hosted on the website or not. It would add to expenses but it might simplify everything a bit more.

Well, tell me what you all think!

Oh, and happy holidays!

alnite

Nov 27, 2011 at 3:00 AM

Not a bad idea.

Voters would need to pay $1 to vote for the best game, and developers get to make some profits.

I'd suggest to keep a percentage to keep the website running (say 30%-70%). You might also want to keep hosting all previous winners and have choice for people to purchase them at a buck.

HappyCoder

Nov 27, 2011 at 5:50 AM

I think I would likely say a game would be worth a buck, but not want to actually pay a buck for it.

Earthwalker

Nov 27, 2011 at 6:01 PM

alnite - I like the idea of hosting for the winners. Also, taking a percentage is a pretty good idea; I'll have to think about it.

HappyCoder - Why wouldn't you pay for it? Lack of money?

DarklyDreaming

Nov 27, 2011 at 6:04 PM

alnite - I like the idea of hosting for the winners. Also, taking a percentage is a pretty good idea; I'll have to think about it.

HappyCoder - Why wouldn't you pay for it? Lack of money?

I agree with HappyCoder, although perhaps not for the same reason. For me it's more about the bother of using PayPal.

Also, I'd lose more than a buck if PayPal was the only way (AFAIK, PayPal charges for low-yield transactions).

Eleventy

Nov 28, 2011 at 1:17 AM

Don't use PayPal as the only way to accept payment. They'll randomly put your transactions and account on hold when they feel like it, especially if you are a startup microISV. Go with a real merchant account. Or have a merchant account / PayPal account combination.

kyanite

Nov 28, 2011 at 3:13 AM

HappyCoder - Why wouldn't you pay for it? Lack of money?[/quote]
Personally, I think the biggest issue with schemes like this is that we're conditioned to view higher prices with higher quality and disdain products (such as games) that traditionally sell for high prices but are being offered for much less.

It isn't that I don't think the author is entitled to some compensation, or whatnot, so much as there is a certain "price" at which people consider "too much" simply because they don't wish to go through the actual hassle of paying (particularly for online products). Honestly, when I see a game that is being offered for "a buck" or something similar, and isn't a marked down version of an older game (read: one that commanded a decent price at some point in time) I can't help but wonder why they didn't just offer it for free. It sends the subtle message that the author wants payment but isn't confident enough in their product to demand a higher price. It comes across as more of a "pity payment" than a valuable service transaction.

Obviously, this isn't true for a large percentage of such items. But the issue with trying to sell your product "on the edge" is that "a buck" is an easy price to beat .. and a lot of people have already done it.

That said, I find the idea of a regularly scheduled "jam" (contest) for developers very intriguing. I wish there were more of them (*cough* 4E).

Servant of the Lord

Nov 28, 2011 at 3:22 AM

[size="1"]*bunny hops into the conversation*

Don't use PayPal as the only way to accept payment. They'll randomly put your transactions and account on hold when they feel like it, especially if you are a startup microISV. Go with a real merchant account. Or have a merchant account / PayPal account combination.

Any recommendations/preffered-vendors that you have personally used?

Promit

Nov 28, 2011 at 3:28 AM

Personally I had a related but somewhat different idea, which was to actually make the competition involve publishing the game on iTunes. Then you declare the winner based on sales. Of course this means that everyone has to pay before playing, unfortunately.

Eleventy

Nov 28, 2011 at 3:52 AM

[size="1"]*bunny hops into the conversation*
[quote name='Eleventy' timestamp='1322443060' post='4888276']
Don't use PayPal as the only way to accept payment. They'll randomly put your transactions and account on hold when they feel like it, especially if you are a startup microISV. Go with a real merchant account. Or have a merchant account / PayPal account combination.

Any recommendations/preffered-vendors that you have personally used?
[/quote]

I obtained a merchant account from http://www.gotmerchant.com/.

Their application process is pretty straight-forward. They also have low fees and very good customer service. The only thing you'll need is standard ID documentation and at least one valid business-related trade reference (such as a vendor, supplier, marketing partner, etc).

If you don't want a full-blown merchant account, you can also go with other services such as FastSpring and 2CheckOut. Though, I have never used the last two.

P.S. You should do a Google search for "paypal microisv" and read the first article.

ChurchSkiz

Nov 28, 2011 at 1:55 PM

Would probably be easier if you could have an account with the site and that way you wouldn't have to go to paypal for every game you liked. You could just give them a credit or something similar to Kongregate.

Earthwalker

Nov 28, 2011 at 3:04 PM

Yeah, I just automatically think paypal when thinking about online payments, but I will definitely look into the other merchants you guys suggested.

ChurchSkiz - So kind of like Steam wallet maybe? So you would put money into your account and then use it to pay for the games? Hmm, I hadn't thought of that.

Kyan - I know that we tend to look at extremely low prices as low quality, but think of it more like a pay-what-you-want system. If you like a game you support it by giving one dollar. It wouldn't even be quite paying for it like we're used to. It would be more like using open source software and donating something because it was useful/fun. I would also like to see more regular game jams too.

If I take a percentage of profits, maybe I could pay the fees out of my own pocket so the developers/players wouldn't have to worry about it.

So do you guys think enough people would be interested? I know game jams are pretty popular (although rather exhausting) and I for one wouldn't mind making a few dollars from those games.

Servant of the Lord

Nov 28, 2011 at 4:03 PM

I obtained a merchant account from http://www.gotmerchant.com/.

Their application process is pretty straight-forward. They also have low fees and very good customer service. The only thing you'll need is standard ID documentation and at least one valid business-related trade reference (such as a vendor, supplier, marketing partner, etc).

If you don't want a full-blown merchant account, you can also go with other services such as FastSpring and 2CheckOut. Though, I have never used the last two.

Thanks for the info, I'll heavily consider GotMerchant next year when selecting a solution for my own project.

ChurchSkiz

Nov 28, 2011 at 5:39 PM

Yeah, I just automatically think paypal when thinking about online payments, but I will definitely look into the other merchants you guys suggested.

ChurchSkiz - So kind of like Steam wallet maybe? So you would put money into your account and then use it to pay for the games? Hmm, I hadn't thought of that.

Kyan - I know that we tend to look at extremely low prices as low quality, but think of it more like a pay-what-you-want system. If you like a game you support it by giving one dollar. It wouldn't even be quite paying for it like we're used to. It would be more like using open source software and donating something because it was useful/fun. I would also like to see more regular game jams too.

If I take a percentage of profits, maybe I could pay the fees out of my own pocket so the developers/players wouldn't have to worry about it.

So do you guys think enough people would be interested? I know game jams are pretty popular (although rather exhausting) and I for one wouldn't mind making a few dollars from those games.

If you've never done so, I'd check out Kongregate's Kredit system. It's a pretty well-done implementation for what you're suggesting. Game-makers even offer extras for those who "donate" kredits.

Earthwalker

Nov 29, 2011 at 4:35 PM

I checked out Kongregate's Kredit system and also the different merchant services. The Kredit system seems very close to what I want to do and the people there are pretty friendly and helpful. If this gets off the ground, I'll let you all know! Thanks for your help and advice!

gavco98

Dec 1, 2011 at 10:27 AM

You will probably find that most people will just click "no" regardless of whether they liked the game or not. Why pay for something if you dont have to? Also, the more bothersome you make paying, the less likely people are to do it. I.e if clicking yes takes you to paypal, where you then have to log in, click confirm a few times, then fewer people will bother paying.

You need to make payment as simple as possible. The wallet idea is perfect for this - if users have a preloaded account with you, then when they click "yes", the money is deducted instantly, with no further clicks needed.

However, this still doesnt help against freeloaders who simply click no to avoid paying.

Perhaps in order to download the games you must be a registered user, and top up a minimum of $10 before you can download your first game. Once you have registered and topped up though, you can download as many games as you like for an unlimited time. Once users have spent the $10 to register, they will consider it gone, and are therefore far more likely to hit "yes", at least until their $10 balance has gone. You will then face the same issues when trying to persuade users to top up, but at least by then they have spent some money...

Just remember, every step you put in is a barrier, and people will fall at each barrier. Therefore, the more barriers you introduce, the fewer people will make it to the end goal, in this case paying $1 for the game.

_mark_

Dec 2, 2011 at 3:16 PM

I think one issue will be, will people pay for games (even just $1) that have been written in a few weeks, compared to say, the large number of games available for free (e.g., on sites like Freecode)? Well, I guess you might get some, even if only a fraction of people pay, but it's worth keeping in mind the competition out there.

Having said that, it might be nice to have more sites that host games being distributed for free, but also have built in functionality for people to make donations to the developer (do any such sites exist? Most free projects I've seen accepting donations seem to manage it themselves).

way2lazy2care

Dec 2, 2011 at 3:40 PM

It might be cool to make it something like those penny auction sites.

You can vote as many times as you want and each vote costs a dollar. If the game wins anybody who voted for that game gets the game for whatever they paid in the votes. That way you can support the site and subsidize winner's losses with the leftovers from votes that lost. People who really want one game can also pay 2 or more times to increase their chances of winning the game.

Ex. Game 1, 2, 3, 4, 5

Game 1 : 2,000 votes
Game 2 : 1500 votes
Game 3: 1000 votes
Game 4: 500 votes
Game 5: 250 votes

Total Income = $5,250

Game 1 wins all the money from it's votes ($2000) + 50% of remaining votes ($1625) for maximum 2,000 copies of the game and $1625 for the website itself. You can alter the cost/vote to increase games profits/game and even do it on a per-cycle basis (IE one competition has $1 votes one has $5 votes etc. etc.).

I do think one important part is to have some sort of bankable credit that is equivalent to a dollar value so you don't have to do a transaction every time you vote though if you do it this way to bank off of impulse votes.

boolean

Dec 3, 2011 at 6:12 PM

This might be a silly point but what if I really liked the game but wanted to donate more than a dollar? If the system lets me pay for the game twice, does my vote go up twice as well? Also, what if I really like two of the games in the competition? If I vote for two games both the developers still get some money but it somewhat defeats the purpose of having a competition if you can vote for everyone.

To a certain extent it seems like the system by way2lazy2care solves a lot of these issues

I think the main issue for me would be even though I like the idea, I could not see myself spending money on the site. 2-3 weeks isn't much time to make a game and I've played games on my android that took a year to develop that were absolutely terrible. If you expect a lot of return visitors, spending money each month on game jam tech demos would be a very hard sell. I think the biggest issue you would have is that game jams are great for prototyping and hashing ideas out, but asking people to pay for them is a separate step.

I think if you can solve that issue first, then you will have an awesome website.

Antheus

Dec 3, 2011 at 7:19 PM

Ex. Game 1, 2, 3, 4, 5

Game 1 : 2,000 votes
Game 2 : 1500 votes
Game 3: 1000 votes
Game 4: 500 votes
Game 5: 250 votes

Total Income = $5,250

Ahem...

Processing fee: $.25-.30 per charge
Other monthly fees: $50-$500
Accountant: $100 (death and taxes and all that)
Chargeback fee: ~$10 per

So now you're taken in $5250
-$1312 (processing fee)
- $150 fixed costs (minimum)
- 0.5% chargeback - $260
= ~$3530
(check for applicability on ~20% sales tax)

Another detail, you start each month with negative balance, so first X charges just move you to zero. If there aren't enough, you'll be paying from your own pocket.

Also make sure some credit laundering operation doesn't latch on your service. They can easily run thousands or more CC numbers through the system, incurring fees with no revenue, causing you a loss. Vendors have gone bankrupt from that.

Also, paying out the winnings in cash will require you to register and comply with laws (ever noticed how no services have the option of cashing out). Handing out prizes of equivalent value will require you to comply with gambling laws.There's also all that money laundering, anti-terrorism and banking regulation which complicates things.

Even if it's possible to avoid most of it, as soon as you're acting as a bank, "shit gets real".

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