being realistic

First off, if you haven't made any games, start small before making any big games.

If you're set on not using a game engine, you need to find out what game engines can do, figure out which of those things you're game will need, then decide if it's worth it to spend time programming those things into your game yourself. If so then great, if not then you'll need to use an engine.

If you want to make a really nice looking game in using SDL or OpenGL, then yes, even if it's just you, it is possible. The problem is, if this is your first game and you plan to make a kickass MMORPG with stunning 2D graphics, you simply aren't going to be able to do it.

You need to start out small. It's really as simple as that. 99% of game indie game developers are not going to produce a big title that generates large amounts of revenue, for their FIRST game. Even if your goal isn't to generate revenue, writing a full-scale, beautiful, stunning 2D game, MOST LIKELY won't be realistic for you if you're just starting out. I really would start small, tower defense games, pac-man clones, pong-like games, etc. are all great places to start. And you need to get more than just the basics of what you need all down before you try to develop the full-scale 2D game of your dreams.

That being said, ALL of the really nice and successful 2D games out there are successful because of great game ideas, great game physics, collision detect, etc, AND stunning art. If you are not confident in doing all of that yourself, what you're asking most likely won't happen.

and maybe I just can't find any good one but everytime I try to look for projectsmade in sdl, sfml, opengl and directx they all look horrible and boring.

OpenGL and DirectX are the industry-standard low-level graphics APIs for PC development. I would expect every 3D game in the last decade (just to limit scope) that people played on a PC used OpenGL or DirectX. Every game on the XBox uses DirectX. What you're probably finding are hobbyist projects or tech demos designed to play around with or showcase a particular feature of these libraries. And like shadowgamesco mentioned: it takes really good ART to make a really pretty game (most of the time). Chances are any hobby project you find done by a singular programmer probably doesn't have any good art to use. It's uncommon to be both a good programmer AND a good artist.

I know I must start small but I want to learn something that allows me , when i have the knowledge, to create a beautiful 2d game. So that being said what I would like to make (not know of course, im talking future here) would be something like wizorb , cave story plus or 30 second hero in terms of graphics.

I wanted to know if it is possible for a single person to make a game in sdl and or opengl and with this i mean a big game not just a pong or something like that. Should i use a game engine instead?? I want to make a nice looking game, i prefer 2d but i dont dislike 3d. I also like to code so I wouldn't like to use one of those engines where you don't code at all.
I feel that even though engines help a lot they also limit what you can do and also even though I like the flexibility that using sdl and opengl gives you but it seems to hard and maybe I just can't find any good one but everytime I try to look for projectsmade in sdl, sfml, opengl and directx they all look horrible and boring.

First - yes, it is possible. But it is hard work - a bit easier if you use engine, but still huge amount of work.
I think that if you want to make big game then creating art will become bigger task than code. Of course it depends on the kind of game you are building - if you are clever, you can create very rich environments from simple elements - like Minecraft. But in any case you need high-quality art for nice looking game. If you are not modeler/pixel artist/background artist then learning to create it will take very long time.

I know I must start small but I want to learn something that allows me , when i have the knowledge, to create a beautiful 2d game. So that being said what I would like to make (not know of course, im talking future here) would be something like wizorb , cave story plus or 30 second hero in terms of graphics.

As others have allready said, Graphics is pretty much all about the artwork, if you have a whole bunch of great artists you can make a big and good looking game, if you got one or two great artists you can make a small good looking game, if you don't have any good artists well, you'd better be a good artist yourself.

High quality art doesn't just magically appear from the hands of a skilled artist, it also takes alot of time and effort to create, once you throw in animations it can become incredibly timeconsuming. a few weeks for a high quality, well animated 3D model is not unreasonable. (2D art can be even more timeconsuming when its animated), if you have a small team it is usually a good idea to stick with simpler artwork to get it all done in a reasonable amount of time. (Consistency is very important)

I like the flexibility that using sdl and opengl gives you but it seems to hard

Game development is even harder.

I know I must start small but I want to learn something that allows me , when i have the knowledge, to create a beautiful 2d game.

Well, it's not just a technology issue, as Lauris Kaplinski pointed out. However, from the technology perspective: There is really no platform that can save you from the continuous learning requirement. In other words, if you're trying to find a technology that will enable you to develop any kind of game in the future, without having to learn anything else, you're wasting your time.

And not necessarily because this technology doesn't exist, but more because this "avoid extra learning" mentality is characteristic of those who are fundamentally incapable of developing a quality game.

So, my advice: If you really want to make games, you need to accept the fact that there are no shortcuts, and just start somewhere. Learn multiple languages, multiple tools, multiple engines, and a few years from now, you'll probably have the ability to produce a game of significant quality.

Yes, it is possible. Take a look at my project here: Chesster
It's just me and another dev (handling the art) and I am doing this with SFML. The music is outsourced.
Recently we have completed one year working on this project but we keep going. We have a few more months and our game will be finished!
I guess if you start a project that you are aware of the scope and the tasks you will have to handle as a programmer, then it's pretty much feasible as long as you keep your focus and don't give up because a new better idea came up. Also, it's important to team up with people as dedicated as you, or you might see everyone abandon the boat.
Projects that look horrible are probably just suffering from "programmer's art"!

man that looks awesome. I forgot to mention, Im currently learning c# so it would be easyer to make a game in XNA instead of sfml or sdl?

man that looks awesome. I forgot to mention, Im currently learning c# so it would be easyer to make a game in XNA instead of sfml or sdl?

It really doesn't matter all that much, if you are learning C# then XNA is a good choice, The important thing really is that you get started. (Also, don't worry about the limitations of the tools you choose today, All of todays tools will be horribly outdated before you're at a level where it matters).

but would you think c# and XNA is easyer than c++ and sdl or sfml?? Iwant to start with something that requires some coding but as easy as possible, at least unitl i get familiar with game programming

but would you think c# and XNA is easyer than c++ and sdl or sfml??

Yes.

I want to start with something that requires some coding but as easy as possible, at least unitl i get familiar with game programming[/quote]
The important thing is to start. Doesn't really matter where, or with what.

Thanks for all the answers, i think ill go with sfml since i like c++ better

You can make anything if you have enought time and are brave enought, a single man made http://www.eternal-lands.com/, so yes, you can make big things with SDL, just don't forget that making a game is a long race, if you run too fast but get tired after first 5 minutes,... then better forget about it...

Hey igna92ts - I'm learning 2D game programming at the moment, but using C# and SlimDX (API around DX11).

Eveything people have said about just 'starting' is true, and you have to build yourself up gradually. Learning the basics of programming can be tackled at the same time as writing games, but you could tackle them separately.

Being an existing coder I needed to refresh before learning the principles behind 2d game design. I did this by identifying a number of C# tutorials that I would go through, to master the key concepts - or at least get closer to mastering them.

With this foundation in place you can kick-on to creating a game. This approach worked for me.

One thing I have found is that making a command line driven game (I made a fruit machine game drawing the machine in ASCII characters) was much easier than a 2d game. The reason is, graphics programming is science (yes another one) in itself - but this can be made eaiser depending on the APIs you use. In my case I took a slightly mental approach by going for DX11 via SlimDX - but if you use XNA you'll get results quicker than I did.

But it depends what you want out of the experience really. If you want results ASAP then go for higher level APIs, or even game engines. If you want the thrill of learning then lower level might be more of an option.

Right now I'm starting with a basic 2d game - a pacman clone. It's seriously good fun.

Hope this helps!

I wanted to know if it is possible for a single person to make a game in sdl and or opengl and with this i mean a big game not just a pong or something like that. Should i use a game engine instead?? I want to make a nice looking game, i prefer 2d but i dont dislike 3d. I also like to code so I wouldn't like to use one of those engines where you don't code at all.
I feel that even though engines help a lot they also limit what you can do and also even though I like the flexibility that using sdl and opengl gives you but it seems to hard and maybe I just can't find any good one but everytime I try to look for projectsmade in sdl, sfml, opengl and directx they all look horrible and boring.

Most of books/texts I saw on game design were like: "The first ten games you design will be crap, so do them quick and as soon as possible..."

If you have to ask, the answer is No.
People who can do everything are rare and far between, but they know their own abilities and they know they can do it all.

If you don’t know this, then the answer is automatically No.

If you knew your own musical abilities and your artistic abilities and your design abilities and your programming abilities, then the answer would be obvious to you.
If you have any doubts in any of these categories, the answer is No. You will have to hire a designer, musician, artist, or programmer to fill whatever gaps you are leaving open.


Engines don’t always limit what you can do. Sometimes they expose what you can’t do.
And no engine in the world is going to give you good game art if you yourself can’t make it while insisting not to hire an artist.
Whether you use an engine or not, you still need to hire an artist if you are not one, and you still need to hire a musician if you are not one. No engine nor any code you will ever write on your own will replace these people.


You want to be realistic?
A game engine is your best bet. You need to decide which one, but trying to start from scratch is not going to work under your conditions. If it would, you would already know it would.

And that cascades into everything that has been mentioned above.
If you haven’t made any games at all, there is no reason to believe your first one will be anything significant.
The fact that you asked at all suggests you don’t have a long history in making games, so whatever you make, consider it just practice for the real thing some day far in the future. You aren’t going to hit a home run on your first try.

When you have enough experience to know the answer to this question on your own, that is when you will know you are ready.


L. Spiro