Concept Artists

Beautiful site...and I agree with pretty much everything you said in your lengthy post.

My only question is this: why have you posted some much information about your game mechanics? I''m constantly amazed by the number of people who have a ''great original idea'' and proceed to spell it out for all and sundry. I can''t think of a better way to ensure the great original idea becomes done to death. Maybe I''m just paranoid.

But, looks like there''s a real possibility there. Best of luck to you.

R.

Simply because a) you can''t copyright ideas, so even if someone else copies the game mechanics I can still use it. Basically I post that for everyone to see since it is for the good of the genre.

b) Any major studio won''t even consider ideas from outside their studio and no one will dare copycat or steal ideas cause they are tired of lawsuits.

c) Anyone who dares steal the design probably won''t have a team to design it

d) That isn''t by far the whole design doc and the actual game and story which is the crux of the game is not revealed, and that I can copyright.

Um...

(a)you can copyright content, and what''s more, you can trademark your game mechanics (as a ''gameplay engine'' for example). And even if it only means you and someone else can use it, you''re still giving your ideas away for nothing. I mean, don''t get me wrong, I think it''s great that people are happy to share their ideas, but there is such a thing as IP and it has monetary value that you shouldn''t be so quick to throw away.

Of course, you should know this already since you''re already working on a commercial project.

(b) what about people starting up a project, such as the one you''re proposing?

(c) see (b)

(d) Of course it''s not your whole design doc, but you''re showing off a lot of your key design elements for free. You should know how valuable original technology IP is to a publisher.

But man, it''s your business obviously. I was just throwing the question out there.

R.

I don''t understand the idea theft paranoia that''s so abundant here.

Is there anyone of you out there who can honestly say that their project was canceled because some other team has stolen their ideas? anyone?

I''m not sure I would call it idea theft paranoia. Perhaps it''s more an acknowledgement of the value of ideas. If you''ve worked for a high-tech company, you understand how much intellectual property is worth. I see a lot of people posting threads about ''their brilliant game ideas'' (this does not reflect or relate at all to your post or project, Sanctuary), which they take the time to carefully explain in great detail. Why would you do this? To show people how smart you think you are? If your idea is so revolutionary and marketable, then why not do something with it rather than throw it out there for other people to take?

That''s all I''m getting at. I''m just curious is all.

R.

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Original post by Tacit
I''m not sure I would call it idea theft paranoia. Perhaps it''s more an acknowledgement of the value of ideas. If you''ve worked for a high-tech company, you understand how much intellectual property is worth. I see a lot of people posting threads about ''their brilliant game ideas'' (this does not reflect or relate at all to your post or project, Sanctuary), which they take the time to carefully explain in great detail. Why would you do this? To show people how smart you think you are? If your idea is so revolutionary and marketable, then why not do something with it rather than throw it out there for other people to take?

That''s all I''m getting at. I''m just curious is all.

R.

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No Tacit that is a very valid point you''ve made. The only reason I am so open with this is that the whole point is to attract professional team members as soon and as best I can. The whole point of that is to be able to do something with the design and turn it into a marketable game. That isn''t even half of the final product design and I''ve already been ab;e to secure 3 professional programmers since Sunday. And when I mean professional I mean professional. If someone steals the ideas, then it is a chance I have to take. However anything done from this point onwards will be at a highpoint of secrecy and within a week you won''t be able to find me shelving out the design document to anyone.

The point is you need to be able to do something with your ideas. Unfortunately these forums are poluted with 12 year old gnomes who believe they have the next best thing, so as a serious developer I have to try everything possiblr to ensure I can obtain a high quality team.

I understand, Sanctuary, and I wish you the best of luck in finding the talent you need.

I''d be curious to hear of the quality of applicants you''ve managed to attract. I have considered using Gamedev.net for recruiting purposes but am scared to.

R.

quote:

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Original post by Tacit
I understand, Sanctuary, and I wish you the best of luck in finding the talent you need.

I''d be curious to hear of the quality of applicants you''ve managed to attract. I have considered using Gamedev.net for recruiting purposes but am scared to.

R.

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You aer right to be scared. If you want to get quality people then you should use www.flipcode.com Gamedev is more for amateurs. You can see that by peoples lack of mentality on most posts. Your best site is however www.gamasutra.com but that is for the devlopers at the top. Flipcode is in the middle. People won''t blatantly flame you, but you need to offer them a serious project if you want a response.

Do you mind to elaborate on your project, just for curiosity sake?

when you summarize a game into less than 3 pages, then the ideas become so abstract that stealing them is just absurd.
The ideas that do have some intellectual value are those described in a very specific logical way, something a programmer or artist could use without having to do any guessing or inventing.

People shouldn''t be afraid of presenting 1-3 page idea summaries here. It would only help getting people interested.

If you still think that a 3 page game idea can be stolen, you probably never worked with a real game design document.
I think the actual problem with this here is that people rarely think things thru very well, so they would have a hard time making even a 3 page game description, which exhausts all their ideas. Once you get nothing more to hide then you start feeling insecure.

quote:

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Original post by berserk
If you still think that a 3 page game idea can be stolen, you probably never worked with a real game design document.
I think the actual problem with this here is that people rarely think things thru very well, so they would have a hard time making even a 3 page game description, which exhausts all their ideas. Once you get nothing more to hide then you start feeling insecure.

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Actually, I have worked on a real game design document and happen to be working on one right now. Any 3 pages of it contain enough information that I would feel uncomfortable about anyone having access to them. I agree that people rarely think things through very well...like your post for example.

My argument has nothing to do with quantity. The concept behind Pong was two sentences long.

Sanctuary: Thanks for the info. I''ll check out Flipcode for sure.

Looking after your design is good practice for if you want to eventually enter the industry...

Most dev companies (if not all) require you to sign a contract that states that you cannot give away any information about any of the projects you are working on.

While I don''t think giving some information to attract attention is a problem, but there''s absolutely no way I''d give away anywhere near 3 pages of design, or any of the major gameplay parts.








Marc Lambert

marc@darkhex.com

www.yarozescene.co.uk

giving 3 pages out of specific details may be bad. But when you compress the entire game into 3 pages, there isn''t much detail to it.

I have a design document over 90 pages long, and while I wouldn''t want someone to steal it and finish the game before I did, I am sure that would never happen.

I dare you to steal my ideas and finish my game before I do. Want the design doc?
And even if you do manage to finish something, the difference would be no less than that between Doom and Quake, so you still wouldn''t manage to cancel my game.

Believe me...I wouldn''t dream of making a game out of your ideas. That would be career suicide.

See, I got nothing to worry about, and others think exactly the same thing about you, so you got nothing to worry about either.

Reread my post carefully and you''ll see I didn''t have flattery in mind when I wrote it.

Ok, I''m now drawing the line on this discussion.

Any more posts about anything other than artists wanting to join Sanctuary''s team, will be deleted.


I will allow this discussion to continue in it''s own thread, if someone wants to start one, BUT only for the reason that something like this is of a huge importance to those wishing to enter the industry.






Marc Lambert

marc@darkhex.com

www.yarozescene.co.uk

Hey, I thought Sanctuary and I were having a useful and relevant discussion. At least, I found it to be.

At least I''m not posting using a random complaint generator. That''s got to count for something, right?

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Hey, I thought Sanctuary and I were having a useful and relevant discussion. At least, I found it to be.

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As far as I can see it ended up between yourself/Berserk and eventually myself (I''m as equally to blame now!).

I''m not against topics like ths being discussed as it will benefit the entire forum, which is certainly something I''d like to see. So if you want to continue, take it to it''s own thread.

quote:

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At least I''m not posting using a random complaint generator. That''s got to count for something, right?

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They are banned in this forum! Besides, I found it amusing to see the pouya threads, plus my complaint had relevance to KalvinB (with the religious part!).






Marc Lambert

marc@darkhex.com

www.yarozescene.co.uk

You''re right...I''m not trying to stir anything up here.

Pouya...now there''s a crazy right-wing communist philanthropist android lover if there ever was one! Good for him!

I love all this incessant babble. It''s good for the soul!

R.