The right way, of course, is to get an attorney that specializes in patent and copyright law and have him file the proper documentation. However, this is only really good when you have a finished product and doesn''t help you so much with ideas or even work in progress.

There is a concept that is referred to as the "poor man''s copyright" wherein you place your ideas in an envelope and mail them to yourself. You leave the letter unopened until such time as it would become necessary to defend yourself - in which case you hand it to the judge and say "YOU open it, your honor." The reason this works is that a postmark is a form of legal dating so you can prove that you had those ideas at least moments before it was postmarked.

Dave Mark
President and Lead Designer
Intrinsic Algorithm Development
"Reducing the world to mathematical equations!"

Just to clarify - your work is automatically under copyright when you create it. The only difficulty is proving it, which is where paying for registration and mail-dating tricks come in. Search the Business forum for more details.

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quote: Original post by Hase
It´s a public forum - if by "safe" you mean that no one will take your ideas and incorporate them into his own, then no.

But as Bill already said, Ideas are cheap. Besides, Ideas are an infinite commodity, you can always have more.

Um...implementations are infinite as well...

I really wonder what is with some of you people...yes, bad ideas are a dime a dozen, but ideas *are* important. Try poking your heads out of your programmer-centric holier-than-thou shells and looking around at what we like to call "real life" every once in a while.

There are a lot of games that have been totally broken in the design stage, not the implementation stage. This notion running around here that only programmers are important is absurd and flies in the face of actual reality...yes, "reality." Novel concept...

I''m sorry, but a reply like :

"Ideas are cheap, it''s the implementation that counts."

is totally worthless. Maybe *your* ideas are cheap...making idiotic snide comments doesn''t add anyting to the dicussion.

On the other hand, when you share ideas with strangers who knows if it will be "safe" or not. The fact is most of the projects here are pipe dreams or doomed to failure, and whether the concept *or* the programming is safe is largely irrelevant in those cases. Share what you feel comfortable sharing, and expect other people to do the same.



" PS: It´s spelled "DEFINITELY". "

PS: It''s spelled "ANAL PRICK." Don''t be one. I''ve never understood why people come to a forum like this just to be assholes.

quote: Original post by Anonymous Poster
Um...implementations are infinite as well...

Not really. It requires substantially (some would say infintely) more investment of resources and discipline to provide an implementation than it does to have an idea. That is an immutable fact.

quote:
I really wonder what is with some of you people...yes, bad ideas are a dime a dozen, but ideas *are* important. Try poking your heads out of your programmer-centric holier-than-thou shells and looking around at what we like to call "real life" every once in a while.

Obviously, you can''t program. If you could, you''d realize that they''re not saying ideas are worthless or designers are useless and unimportant, but instead they''re saying that an idea - a design - that is never implemented is of little use to anyone. Inspiration strikes us all, some better than others and therefore some designers are more potent and capable than others. However, without concretizing these ethereal visions, no one will know of your brilliance.

quote:
There are a lot of games that have been totally broken in the design stage, not the implementation stage. This notion running around here that only programmers are important is absurd and flies in the face of actual reality...yes, "reality." Novel concept...

Oh, shut up. You''re like a broken record, rehashing the same inane comment over and over. What do you know of the "notions running around here"? We''ve had this discussion before, and the conclusion was virtually unanimously that designers are very important, but so are programmers - and artists, whom you forgot to mention. Same with producers and everybody involved in creating a stellar product. It''s a very Gestalt-like thing.

quote:
On the other hand, when you share ideas with strangers who knows if it will be "safe" or not. The fact is most of the projects here are pipe dreams or doomed to failure, and whether the concept *or* the programming is safe is largely irrelevant in those cases. Share what you feel comfortable sharing, and expect other people to do the same.

I''m sure everyone here agrees totally. All of us, as much as we discuss openly, must be holding something back - that critical component, that gem of gameplay goodness, that coup de grace that will (at least in our minds) raise our creations far above the snivelling masses to illume all gamers with bliss... So what makes this thread so irritating? The idea that we don''t have our own private concepts safely tucked away; the sensation of almost asking for an NDA from a community that shares so freely. "Being cautious" is a crock and a cop-out. Take a look around and then you tell me if people here would steal your ideas.

You can''t get something for nothing. You can''t get critiques and comments without divulging what you''re thinking. This overprotectiveness is primitive and pathetic, especially in a non-commercial environment like this. Oh, and just for the record, I doubt any of your projects will rise above being "pipe dreams or doomed to failure".

Pathetic!

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Thanks to Kylotan for the idea!

I recently came up with an idea for a game over dinner that one of my friends thought was really cool. He now plans to implement it. I may or may not work with him, but I definitely won''t feel "ripped-off" if he goes through with the idea. Why? Because even though I outlined the basic idea of the game (in a few sentences) his concept of the game is turning out to be completely different from what I first envisioned and the actual implementation will be even more so. We could start to separate teams, with the same exact basic idea and come out with two completely different products. This is what people mean about the value of implementation over presentation.

Ideas are important, but it''s not like anyone is posting their design docs, they''re just posting a basic idea (usually not even a gameplay idea). Most of the "game design" ideas I see on the forums here sound something like this:

I want to make a game like Counter-Strike, except far more realistic, and with RTS elements.

Anyone whose played Counter-Strike (or any FPS, for that matter) could say something like that. People rarely elaborate on anything, and most of the time their ideas are not innovative, which isn''t necessarily a bad thing, it''s hard to be truly innovative without coming up with some wild idea that''s odd, or impractical.

Anyway, it''s safe to post your ideas here, because chances are no one will develop a title that is YOUR game (even though they may borrow a few ideas.)

Jeez, what''s with all the hostility. You could''ve just answered his question which was:

Would this be a safe forum for discussion?

The answer is YES. If I was Tulpa I''d be hesistant to make any other posts here out of fear of getting flamed again.


Shmiznac

quote: Original post by Shmiznac
Jeez, what''s with all the hostility.

A radical departure.. less is more...

That''s what got me pissed.

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Thanks to Kylotan for the idea!

quote:
I doubt any of your projects will rise above being "pipe dreams or doomed to failure".

Perhaps, but if we all think like that, we wont really get anywhere will we?

quote:
but I definitely won''t feel "ripped-off" if he goes through with the idea. Why? Because even though I outlined the basic idea of the game (in a few sentences) his concept of the game is turning out to be completely different from what I first envisioned

Okay, thats fine i guess, but some of us actually have ideas that are much more developed than that.(yes really!
For example, im working on a CRPG(2d iso w/ 3d accel. to avoid building an entire 3d engine), for which i have a decent bit of of the background story and plotline, as well as the rulesystem it will be using(lots of code too, but basic framework wont be finished until around summer-time, and then the hard work begins). It might not be fantastic, but compared to the silly plotline found in many CRPGs its decent enough. Also it will probably never be anything more than freeware or perhaps unsuccesful shareware, but spending alot of time on something, only to have someone else run away with the bright ideas when you air them for feedback is something that i worry about too.

quote: Original post by Oluseyi

I really wonder what is with some of you people…yes, bad ideas are a dime a dozen, but ideas *are* important. Try poking your heads out of your programmer-centric holier-than-thou shells and looking around at what we like to call "real life" every once in a while.

Obviously, you can''t program.


Obviously, you really don''t know, so obviously, you shouldn''t be acting as if you do. Obviously, what you are saying is horseshit, so, obviously, you should close your mouth before more falls out. Actually I can program and I do so for a living. Nice try, insert 50 cents to continue…

quote:
Oh, shut up.

No, you! Nyah nyah!

quote:
You''re like a broken record, rehashing the same inane comment over and over. What do you know of the "notions running around here"?

What do I know? What do you know? I know that I''ve been reading these forums for quite some time…how am I like a broken record, as an AP are you sure I might be someone other than whoever you apparently think I am? What I know about the notions running around here is what I''ve gathered from reading this site for the past 2 years or so…and what exactly am I rehashing? I''m don''t think I''ve posted on this particular topic ever before…

quote:
The idea that we don''t have our own private concepts safely tucked away; the sensation of almost asking for an NDA from a community that shares so freely. "Being cautious" is a crock and a cop-out. Take a look around and then <em>you</em> tell me if people here would steal your ideas.

Did the original poster "almost ask for an NDA"? No. Not even close. Did they ask for a critque? No. Did they ask for input on some idea of theirs…no. No no no. All they did was say "I''m new here, I don''t want to get burned, is it safe for me to share things?" That doesn''t deserve flames, especially not from mods. The point is not whether they are right or wrong. (no, I am not the original poster) I think they (he/she) are wrong, but there is no point in acting like exasperated pricks about it. Read the original post, rather than what you pretend it said.

quote:
You can''t get something for nothing. You can''t get critiques and comments without divulging what you''re thinking. This overprotectiveness is primitive and pathetic, especially in a non-commercial environment like this. Oh, and just for the record, I doubt any of your projects will rise above being "pipe dreams or doomed to failure".

Pissy little bitch, aren''t you? Once again, you don''t know, so don''t open your mouth, as once again you''ve made an ass of yourself. he fact is that most of these projects ARE pipe dreams and ARE doomed to failure. That isn''t an insult, it''s a fact, and if you think otherwise you are delusional. That is what hobby and indie communities are about. And what you THINK my projects will do is really irrelevant to actual reality, isn''t it? Once again clearly you don''t know.

I agree that being over-protective is a misplaced notion. In fact, I recently had this argument at garagegames.com and I was against people hoarding secrets. I think the chance that someone can "steal" your idea from a post is near zero. I just don''t think people should be flaming assholes about it. You disagree?

Why are you a mod here? Seriously, just re-read this thread. Read the first post, then the obnoxious reply by "Bill", then your own even more obnoxious reply. What the fuck are you people thinking? Look at the tone of the original post, then look at yours. The original post was guilty of ignorance, nothing more, nothing less. What you demonstrate is ignorance and bitchiness. Why be a mod just to deride people? Serious question. Everyone starts out naive; if you can''t deal with it find other ways to spend your time than moderating. If everyone who was getting started ran into you, we wouldn''t have much community to speak of. People make mistakes in good faith, you don''t have to bite their heads off over it. (And yes, mine response is different because I am not responding to good-faith effort, rather mean spiritedness)

Your posts are often quite caustic, I''m waiting for the following exchange which I''m sure you could easily justify:

Naive Poster: hi i am new here, i have a great idea for a game like diablo but with more rpg elements.

Mod from hell: Fuck off bitch. Die.

Wonderful! Every neighborhood needs a drooling rabid dog I suppose.

If you don''t have the patience to be a mod, don''t be one. If people are annoyed with certain posts, either say something constructive or shut up. Yes, it is tedious when people have the same ideas over and over, and the same misconceptions. Deal with it, or put yourself in a position where you don''t have to.

If you needed to get the point across, you could simply have said: "We''ve never had a problem in the past, most ideas that people have guarded have turned out to be pretty half-baked anyway, I wouldn''t worry about it but there are no assurances, buyer beware."

Funny too, I suggest you go to garagegames.com and read the newest plan file from Jeff Tunnel titled "Innovation." At the end of the plan, posters are arguing about sharing ideas on an open forum. Who comes out against sharing? Jeff Tunnel.

Since you are most likely too lazy or stupid to look, let me just quote it for you:

Poster: Chances are any one paragraph summary you can write up *has* been thought of before, and doesn''t contain enough detail to "steal" anyway. The idea that you can steal a game from a small description is absurd, akin to thinking that you can "steal" a James Joyce novel by reading the back cover then writing the rest yourself.

Reply by Jeff Tunnel: If I had a really great idea that I thought was unique, I wouldn''t publicly display it until I was sure I was ahead of everyone else in it''s execution.

Hmm…interesting. Gee, maybe there is room in this world for informed opposing viewpoints…then again maybe Jeff Tunnel doesn''t know how to program either huh?

quote: Original post by Oluseyi


That''s what got <em>me</em> pissed.

What about that was so offensive? Was it his friendly tone to your less than friendly reply? Or was it him pleasantly thanking you? HORROR OF FUCKING HORRORS! If that is all it takes to set you off, well, that''s fucked up dude, it really is.

You might also consider that your word is not the word of god, nor should it be taken as such. As you were the only person who responded to his thread, it makes sense he would gather a few more reponses, no? Poor fellow didn''t realize he''d somehow manage to awaken the terrible wrath of Oluseyi the Terrible...

Look, the guy is asking for a range of personal accounts to let him know what the deal is around here. You know that what you said was accurate, I know it, regular readers and posters know it...yeah, the guy maybe should have lurked more to get a better feel but it''s a common mistake, and your reaction was totally uncalled for and not commensurate AT ALL with the "crime" being committed. Being ignorant and friendly is a lot better than being an ignorant raging sociopath.

This is your problem, not his. Randomly misplaced spastic fits of anger don''t for a good mod make.