I have always wondered when fighting games would evolve to a new point in their lifespan. Frankly I am sick of how fighters are coming about these days. Graphics seem to be the main issue with them nowadays. I''m talking about a fighter where you, the gamer, can actually be the fighter. I''m talking about a true Martial Arts game where you can create your own fighter and develope their own moves to suit your style of Martial Arts. Why must these games continuously go on to be more realistic looking rather than play realistically. There are wrestling games out there...which I don''t consider fighters at all...just franchise, that are already almost fully incorporate these functions, yet only one fighter comes close to having this sort of freedom (Virtua Fighter 4) and even that is limited. Fighting games should emphasize the fighting aspects. There should be more realism involved and more environment focused on. -Mac

I''m developing a technology that might be relevant to this: you can input physical characteristics, and it''ll generate a skeleton and mesh. Players can actually model themselves, without having to mess about with vertices or anything.

Superpig
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Not that I don´t think it has a certain academic value, but what´s with all the "new realism"? Is it because graphics seem to have neared the perceptual maximum? Or is there some other reason I´m not aware of?

A fighting simulator would of course be cool, but why go through all the trouble of filtering down realistic fighting to a twodimensional screen and a limited and (by definition) inaccurate interface when real thing is available in real life? I think if I want to experience fighting to the fullest, I will start learning whatever style I prefer in real life.

Games are not about the most accurate representation of real life, games are about fun. While simulations are interesting in some areas (areas which are not easily accessible to the average player, like flying an airplane) to a limited audience who seeks the realism, they are not widespread (last check European Market: about 4-6% of total sales) because most players are looking for other things than realism. Most people play for fun.

A fighting game I´ve recently looked at is Super Smash Brothers Melee for the Gamecube. The controls are rather intuitive, you have three buttons and a stick keep in your head, and there are a handful of moves for each fighter. While this may seem limited it does allow you to gain access to the game very quickly, and surprisingly (this is where good design comes in) it is challengign for a very long time, as the player has to deal with oppenents, different techniques and different strategies to succeed - more complex controls are not necessary because the gameplay provides enough "game".

If you wanted to do a fighting sim all along, please disregard this post, but if you want to make a fun game, think about your intended audience before start doing.

Now dont get me wrong...I''m a Martial Artist myself. However, all I''m implying is that fighting games could be so much more fun to myself and possibly others if they were a true representation of real life. Some people don''t have interest in doing th real thing themselves...or can''t for that matter...

-Mac

video games entertainment. no one i know can afford the equipment required for a realistic fighter (ie vr headgear, force feedback suit, quite expensive rendering/physics calculation farm, etc).

no wrestling game comes close to realistic fighting on any level. last i checked have a shoddy "make a player" feature dont exactly make it any more enjoyable (especialy when you say this feature is makes them more realsitc then other fighting games like vf3, vf4, etc).

face it, its not currently technologicaly feasiable to have decent character generation in which balance is maintained, the avg player can use easily, is VERY modifiable, etc. for instance, most create a player features allow changing of the visual aspect of the character (which does not affect the player in the least), some stats and if your lucky choose some predefined signiture moves (ie basically you mimic the moves of the current pre programmed characters).

while there was a game for psx (forget the name) which allowed you to design moves (down to the actual animation) and actually create characters. it was limited, but much more advanced then anything on the market today in terms of flexiblity. it failed. the reason? it required the player to do too much to create stuff, and the actual fighting engine was not as polished as other games.

soul caliber (and the upcoming soul caliber 2) both focus on gameplay fo fighting. so much so that they contain NO enviromental obstacles that get in the way of fighting (face it they are a gimmick most of the time and distract from the actual fight).

want a truly realistic fighting game? play busido blade. no health meter, no magical attacks, just plain sword fighting. may not be the "realistic" yoru looking for, but certainly better then the wrestling games you feel have almost all the features of a "realistic" fighting game.

i prefer the 2d beatups to many of the newer 3d ones. less gimicks and more skill. vf3/4 is a good example of 3d fighting done well. sould caliber as well. dead or alive 2 was pretty good as well.

a realistic fighting game would not be enviroment focused, because that distracts from the fighting aspect. it also unevens the playing field (ie player one may start closer to a usable item then player two or maybe closer to something they can hide behind). then its not realism, its who can get to the strongest weapon on the playing field.

if they dont have the interest to do something in real life they certainly wont want to trudge through a fight sim on their pc/console.

would you play a fighting game in which the match would last a mere 5-6 blows? real fights dont last long, especially if its for ones life. a few choice blows to the nose, throat, temple, soloplexis, jaw, eyes, or groan. if a weapon is invloved such as a knife the match ends quicker with a slice to th jugular, femur artery (upper leg), stomach, neck, heart, or lung. real fights are not fun, they are too short for most and require so much knowledge of the body and precision that it would be overwhelming to play if realisitc. heck the physics/collision detection alone would be difficult, let along having teh ability to switch the attack your doing, come in at ANY angle and do other "non-perfect" attacks. when grappled, you could break the wrist, arm, leg, neck, or do a submission hold to suffocate the person. believe me, a realistic fighting would not be as fun as you think.

i dont know about you, but no matter how realistic the game is, it never matches doing the real thing. the actual fealing of doing the movement correctly vs being even inches off. the tactile feedback of reality. the use of the body to do the work instead of just the thumbs. fresh air.

Wow, smart aren''t we? Heh, of course this is all in your opinion...most of what you say I wasn''t even implying though I see that the only way to make it seem bad would to make me appear to be implying those things. I understand the true physics of fighting...I''ve been in more tournaments than you can imagine and I know how it is.

What I''m speaking about...is just the feature to be any fighter or any type of fighter you please...without limitations and with only limiations that don''t constitute such things as one hit kills etc.

There is no fun unless you''re doing it in real life...this is true...but much more fun can be derived from much more freedom in a fighting game...

-Mac

If you are a martial artist then you know that fighting games can''t even touch reality. There''s simply no way to convey the true feeling of melee combat from the perspective of a 2d screen in a 3rd person mode. Basically fighting games are just that, games. They are poor "simulators".

There''s also a technical problem. 3d Animation can''t be created on the fly...at least not yet. Each skeleton has bones and "joints" that are reference points for the IK and FK animations. Since each skeleton will have different variables for the bones and joints, it really won''t be possible to simply transfer the animations from one model to the next. You could do it, but it would be a lot of hard work for the animators.

So having customized moves for each player would be very diffucult, though admittedly not impossible. What would be impossible is creating moves from scratch, because that would require the player to model his own animations. And that''s what "REAL" fighting is like...they aren''t preprogrammed motions, but rather subtle mutations and combinations of moves. You''ll rarely see a picture perfect side thrust kick. Most real fights actually look pretty ugly, because throwing off that move you practiced so easily in your dojo, kwoon, dojang, salon, or ring is a lot harder when your opponent is making life diffucult for you.

To make a realistic fighting game, the best thing to do is...

Create a setting where combatants fight in a way that fits perfectly within your design.

In other words, create the fighting style that matches your game design.

That way, you can create your very own ''realism''.

I remember correctly that Shenmue incorporated a feature where working on your moves repeatedly would perfect them. I don''t see how this couldn''t be put into a fighting game...

-Mac

quote: Wow, smart aren''t we? Heh, of course this is all in your opinion...most of what you say I wasn''t even implying

quote: if they were a true representation of real life.

quote: I''m talking about a fighter where you, the gamer, can actually be the fighter.

quote: can create your own fighter

quote: play realistically.

quote: There should be more realism involved

Sorry, but don''t mock someone for misinterpreting you when obviously your lack of ability to communicate your ideas was the problem.
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