Regarding the HL2 source code

As software developers, we should all recognize what this could do to Valve and particularly their developers. We shouldn''t be happy about this. If they wanted to release their code, they''d do it on their own time. If this impacts their software sales, it could ruin them as a company, and frankly, that would suck.

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Original post by Zul
As software developers, we should all recognize what this could do to Valve and particularly their developers. We shouldn''t be happy about this. If they wanted to release their code, they''d do it on their own time. If this impacts their software sales, it could ruin them as a company, and frankly, that would suck.

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Exactly. How anybody can think this is "a good thing" is beyond me...

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"Yeah, I would''ve killed you, but I''m glad I didn''t - the paperwork is a bitch"

honestly, valve''s business strategy for half life 2 is longevity and extendability.. how elastic do you think the game can be now that hackers and cheaters will have their ultimate tool? Half life 1 has become such a success because it has survived for a long time. hell, i *still* see HL in retail stores actually selling. if cheaters find a way to bypass HL2''s server side protection, or create plenty of hacks/cheats that generally make the game unfair and not fun to play, i can see HL2 fizzling out instead of being a dominant title for years to come... a sad day indeed. i still cant'' believe people are actually excited about this.

-eldee
;another space monkey;
[ Forced Evolution Studios ]

Do NOT let Dr. Mario touch your genitals. He is not a real doctor!

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Original post by eldee
honestly, valve's business strategy for half life 2 is longevity and extendability.. how elastic do you think the game can be now that hackers and cheaters will have their ultimate tool? Half life 1 has become such a success because it has survived for a long time. hell, i *still* see HL in retail stores actually selling. if cheaters find a way to bypass HL2's server side protection, or create plenty of hacks/cheats that generally make the game unfair and not fun to play, i can see HL2 fizzling out instead of being a dominant title for years to come... a sad day indeed. i still cant' believe people are actually excited about this.

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Whether or not source is available, cheaters can found ways around any insecure protection. If the protection is well-designed, on the other hand, having the source available will not make it any easier to cheat it.

Note also that the source is potentially available to those who wish to stop cheaters. They have the ultimate tool for determining how cheaters can bypass protection, and for stopping them from doing so again.

My viewpoint is that software should be free. However, I acknowledge Valve's right to choose not to develop free software, and it is the violation of this right that is the real problem with what's happened.

CoV

[edited by - Mayrel on October 3, 2003 1:17:27 PM]

I can''t look at this without thinking, "What if this happens to me, next?"

Not that I have much worth stealing at this point, and I''m no longer working full time for a major game studio. But if anybody here has even the vaguest plan of one day making money via writing games, realize you are slitting your own throat by condoning this sort of industrial espionage and theft in the slightest. It COULD be you next. It MIGHT be you next. And if the fetid piece of pond scum who did this doesn''t get publicly nailed to the wall as he so richly deserves, we might see a lot more of it in the future.

I got this straight from Halflife.net:

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Halflife.net news page
A shock post from one of the industries most despised and well established cheat developers, who we know only as Joolz, has taken a stand, backing the Valve team. Joolz has made a public announcement about his feelings on the recent source leak, expressing his disappointment in fellow comrades...

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I will say one thing. Whoever did this has gone a ''step to far''.

Writing cheats is one thing. Reverse engineering out how to write them is another. But, breaking into a company to steal the code is not on. I work for the software industry myself, my sympathys are with the Valve team...

...if you know who did it... let them know on helpvalve@valvesoftware.com. I know we cheat/wreck their game. Without them, there is no HL/CS/HL2, is there?

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This highlights just how seriously this situation has been adopted by community members. When cheaters stand up against their own, morals come to light even under these circumstances.

To whomever it was behind this crime against a company that has supported us over the years better than any other before them; it looks like you''re on your own. It''s only a matter of time before you''re caught, and you will be.

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I think the law or somedody should take down the sites the post it. I think that who ever pst it on there site should be sued by valve so they can get some kind of compintaion. I know it wont cover all the damges But it should help a little

I just hope the culprits are of legal age.

It so sucks reading about every denial of service attack and/or mass virus attack being a teenager and getting off with a wrist slap.

I think a "step too far" sums it up nicely. No matter your views on "standard" piracy this is far far beyond the safe little grey area of burning your mate a copy cos he''s skint. My only hope is that they catch the vermin responsible and give them the jail time they richly deserve. Screwing with peoples livelihood is not big or celver.

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Original post by Mayrel

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Original post by eldee
honestly, valve''s business strategy for half life 2 is longevity and extendability.. how elastic do you think the game can be now that hackers and cheaters will have their ultimate tool? Half life 1 has become such a success because it has survived for a long time. hell, i *still* see HL in retail stores actually selling. if cheaters find a way to bypass HL2''s server side protection, or create plenty of hacks/cheats that generally make the game unfair and not fun to play, i can see HL2 fizzling out instead of being a dominant title for years to come... a sad day indeed. i still cant'' believe people are actually excited about this.

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Whether or not source is available, cheaters can found ways around any insecure protection. If the protection is well-designed, on the other hand, having the source available will not make it any easier to cheat it.

Note also that the source is potentially available to those who wish to stop cheaters. They have the ultimate tool for determining how cheaters can bypass protection, and for stopping them from doing so again.

My viewpoint is that software should be free. However, I acknowledge Valve''s right to choose not to develop free software, and it is the violation of this right that is the real problem with what''s happened.

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I agree--security through obscurity is a lousy security practice--but this is going a little two far.

I am sure that Sierra would have allowed Valve to release their source code eventually, as what happened with id/Alpogee''s (shoot, cannot remember the spelling to that name) Quake and Doom series.

Humm, said they broke in,... Do they mean hacked, or actually stole physical material/copied from the Valve offices,... *I hope it was physicaly stealing it, as finger prints are easier to trace than false IP addies,...

For those of you curious, it is detailed on Valve''s Forums

Good idea.

/me updates the announcement

I agree with this one, Dave. It''s good to see you step up and take charge like that. Plus if any more half life 2 business went on at Gamedev, Gamedev would be liable.

I''m with you all 100%.

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"Few creatures of the night have captured our imagination like vampires..." Godsmack: Vampires.
(c) 2003 DigiAC - My solo company in progress.

This question is in the grey area but anyway.

Does anyone know if the code is actually the source including the important parts or if it''s just another way to get free publicity for the game?

Those links didn''t work for me, but here''s another.

Clicky

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Original post by Anonymous Poster
You could think it in the way that one company got screwed and as a coincidence, hordes of amateurs and perhaps even serious developers got heaps of useful studying material. Some could then think that one loss, dozen wins sums up to a win overall in the programming community''s abilities and knowledge.

Suppose there was a charity organization that made professional quality code for everyone to freely use. You''d probably think that''s an awesome thing for everyone, right? This situation is not SO different, as the group working at Valve is relatively very small, and the leakage doesn''t affect them THAT much (see below).

I''m not trying to justify the theft, and I''d rather have it not happen. But now that it has been done, you can ponder of the results in a different light: What does the leakage effectively imply? Forget morals, as they have no meaning after the theft has happened. Think only of the pure implications.

The loss for Valve is exaggerated as well:
1. Large companies will definitely license Source and not just compile the stolen code. They''d be caught if they did the latter, and besides, common programmers aren''t thieves. So Valve''s licensing income will stay. No loss.
2. Then how about HL2 direct income? With the stolen source, cheats will come earlier and they''ll be better, but stealing never stopped CS (HL) from selling well and getting many players. Why would it stop HL2? Cheats would''ve appeared anyway, only maybe month or two later. No loss, or small loss.
3. More working hours to ship the game so that some cheats holes can be squashed. Some loss.
4. Highly increased publicity. Some benefit, which likely outweights point 3.
5. Then how about the programming community getting a little wiser from studying HL2 sources? Better games will be on the market, meaning some extra competition for Valve. Good technology never made game sell well anyway, so the difference is a couple of games looking a bit prettier. On the other hand, gaming will become even more popular and games will sell better, even Valve''s. Possibly small loss, possibly small benefit.

Overall, that''s almost plus minus zero for Valve.

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Your argument falls on it''s face. If all the students and developers who get their hands on the HL2 source, and then THEIR new source is subsequently stolen by someone else, they lose also. What you''re not seeing is the implications of the theft here. It''s not the event itself, but the possibility of this sort of thing continuing to happen that''s the more scary part.

Btw, there is a source for free good software on the net. It''s called the GNU license. I hear they''ve made an operating system with it. :rolls eyes:

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Original post by __fold
Does anyone know if the code is actually the source including the important parts or if it''s just another way to get free publicity for the game?

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By all counts (including the quote from Gabe, above), it''s the full source. The idea that Valve would do this as a publicity stunt is asinine.

I just think that this problem isn''t only the monetary impact on Valve. As was stated a little higher up in this post, what would you think if it was YOUR game that was leaked? Personally, I would be devastated. For one thing, being an indie, every download versus sale is quite important and a large percent of the income of the game. Another is the intellectual impact. After spending so many hours on developing sites, like Gamedev of course, and late nights programming your game, it would definitely suck to have people download not only a free copy of the game, but the source code. Granted, Valve isn''t exactly an indie company, but you get my meaning.

I just think that stealing code is no different than stealing a car. Stealing the source is like stealing the parts to the car and the blueprints. And I don''t think Honda or BMW would be very happy about that.

It is coming...10 years in the making and It is finally coming

-Beavt8r...