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The Real Software Pirates

Started by SteevR Oct 15, 2003 at 5:56 AM 160 replies 10.5k views
Original Post
SteevR
SteevR
In an effort to maintain gainful employment in my economically depressed locality, I have recently added IT Training courses on top of my college education. The instructor (who makes a few hundred thousand a year from instruction/her personal IT related business exploits) regularly pirates software. She handed out CDRs of the latest Norton System Tools suite to everyone in the class (it had no direct relation to the coursework, and no it wasn't an evaluation copy). She off-handedly mentions all sorts of piracy in her day to day work, and all sorts of piracy that has gone on at former employers. She doesn't talk about it like piracy, but like its normal day-to-day stuff. The students are no better. Many work in communications and IT at the local military base, and are all dyed-in-the-wool Microsoft users. These guys are on military pay, so there is a clear economic reason (*NOT* an excuse EVER) for the piracy, and they are always swapping disks before class starts. Now, the industry when it talks to the news media makes like kids and teenagers are this huge threat (The BSA is the main exception to this rule; they are always litigating against a number of companies ratted out for using pirated software). The real pirates are those who can't even be bothered to go and buy software; its like they have a religious aversion to doing so. They simply pirate a well-known brand without doing the research and finding out that better software is available for free, at a lesser cost, or free for personal use (almost like people whom only wear Fubu/Nike/Whatever). On top of all that, my instructor/classmates take my views on the benefits of Open Source/Free Software as "communist". "Why shouldn't people get paid for the software that they write?!?" they all exclaim. I then proceded to tell them that based on the amount of piracy I saw going on in the classroom, that programmers weren't getting paid for their work anyway. That shut them up awfully quick, with the side effect that few speak to me anymore. I use Linux on the majority of my computers at home (I have 4 cobbled together from parts), and on my main development workstation I have a copy of Windows 2000 Pro and MSVC 6.0, both of which I paid for on my meager full-time-college-student's income. The main reason I use Linux is that I am a person addicted to having lots of machines up at once. Paying for a windows license on all those machines would be prohibitive for me. The trust of all of this is a question to the gamedev.net community: How do you feel _emotionally_ about software piracy? Its not my intention to post flamebait and get the thread locked, but rather me wondering how we as individuals who create software feel about things. The difference between games (which have more in common with film, literature, and comic books than software) and applications/utilities? In large part due to some marketing strategies and the Open Source/Free Software movements, application and OS software is becoming less and less a commodity... how does this change things? Will it affect games? -Steven Rokiski P.S. Should I rat everyone there out to the BSA, so that they'll all get an angry mob of Lawyers/Federal Martials knocking at their doors? P.S.S. What made me even more pissed off is that all the military guys talked about piracy on-base by their IT and communications guys ON THE JOB as if they were above the laws of this land. The Military being above the laws of the land in any way scares me a _lot_. P.P.S. I also want to make it clear that these students are mostly in their late 30's early 40's. I'm the youngest guy there at 22. Its not like they're high schoolers or something. They KNOW better. [edited by - SteevR on October 15, 2003 7:05:07 AM] [edited by - SteevR on October 15, 2003 7:35:27 AM]
-Steven RokiskiMetatechnicality
yves032784
yves032784
well, dont rat the students to BSA, didnt you ever learn the play ground rules?
As for the teacher, just tell her that you are totally against piracy. Dont ruine their lives over pirated software.
Tooko
Tooko
I''ll admit I pirate software, but I try to make an effort to buy the actual CD/Game when I can.

What about us? Game Developers who pirate other games? Only Game Developers would be able to use the HL2 source, why did we encourage that when if it happened to us we would be ruined?



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ShlomiSteinberg
ShlomiSteinberg
Yeah I admit that I pirate software too. Hey relax everyone!! I''m 16 years old (today) and my parents won''t buy Windows XP Pro, Visual Studio 6.0 (Enterprise), Visual Studio .Net (Enterprise Developer), Photoshop 6, Photoshop 7 and games for me...
Linux is a nice OS but I''ve been programming for Windows on VC for more 4 years so...

"C lets you shoot yourself in the foot rather easily. C++ allows you to reuse the bullet!"
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liquidAir
liquidAir
Well, I buy pirated software myself... just mainly because
1. I don''t earn income
2. My parents hardly give me money to buy stuff, esp. software
3. There''re very very few places here where you can get originals, as 95% of the software here is imported, and the exchange rates suck; and you don''t find what you''re looking for there.

If I had enough money to purchase the originals, I definitely will.

But it''s very annoying when you see that big corporations that earn large amounts of money purchase pirated software, just because they want to save costs. That sucks. Like there was this case of a merchant bank, and they were caught, but that was after the BSA launched their anti-piracy campaign here.

And there''re people here who don''t even know that pirated software is illegal. So, I don''t really think it''s their fault.

Anyway, the BSA has been organising seminars here, but it''s mainly for business executives and people along the lines of that, etc.

I good you bid evening.

InitGames Software
ShlomiSteinberg
ShlomiSteinberg
It is so funny that all this stupid kids tell you that pirated software are not good because pirated software are crushing your computer and they have graphical bugs because they are pirated . Those idiots that don't understand what a video card is (they have tnt2/rage 3d, big surprise about the graphics quality).
There are also those that are proud that they got a pirated game with KaZaA and tell the whole world that they are doing illegal things with their computer... Stupid little nutters, they piss me off...


edit: I HAD TO GET IT OUT!!

"C lets you shoot yourself in the foot rather easily. C++ allows you to reuse the bullet!"

[edited by - shlomisteinberg on October 15, 2003 9:05:45 AM]
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Yann L
Yann L
quote:
Original post by ShlomiSteinberg
Yeah I admit that I pirate software too. Hey relax everyone!! I''m 16 years old (today) and my parents won''t buy Windows XP Pro, Visual Studio 6.0 (Enterprise), Visual Studio .Net (Enterprise Developer), Photoshop 6, Photoshop 7 and games for me...


This is absolutely no excuse. So a 16 year old kid needs VS.net Enterprise Developer edition ? You have to be kidding me. Buy VC.net standard edition (VC++, VB, C#, whatever you want). It''s less than $100. About Photoshop, well if you can''t afford it, then use Gimp. Just as good, and free.

Those "I''m a kid, and don''t have money, so I pirate" excuses are really pissing me off. There are always free alternatives. And even worse, you admit pirating games on a game developer site ? Nice.

To the OP: I would definitely report the teacher. Never mind the students, they will learn from what will happen to their teacher. You can do it anonymously, if you want. Especially Microsoft has a very competent anti-piracy department. They also react very quickly.
ShlomiSteinberg
ShlomiSteinberg
quote:
Original post by Yann L
quote:
Original post by ShlomiSteinberg
Yeah I admit that I pirate software too. Hey relax everyone!! I''m 16 years old (today) and my parents won''t buy Windows XP Pro, Visual Studio 6.0 (Enterprise), Visual Studio .Net (Enterprise Developer), Photoshop 6, Photoshop 7 and games for me...


This is absolutely no excuse. So a 16 year old kid needs VS.net Enterprise Developer edition ? You have to be kidding me. Buy VC.net standard edition (VC++, VB, C#, whatever you want). It''s less than $100. About Photoshop, well if you can''t afford it, then use Gimp. Just as good, and free.

Those "I''m a kid, and don''t have money, so I pirate" excuses are really pissing me off. There are always free alternatives. And even worse, you admit pirating games on a game developer site ? Nice.




I know, but I wish I had all this $$$ for ALL this software I need... It is a lot of money for me, and my parents would never give this to me. Also WinXP Pro (I would go with the home edition but I need networking) costs 400+ (at least) NIS here, 100$. It is hard to find VC .Net here (the legal version). It is very costly here to get the VC (any edition) at all. 18% taxes + 30-50% (at least ) because it is Israel. Games are cheaper and I don''t play much, so I bought a few games but still not all the games I have...I know the "I''m a kid, and don''t have money, so I pirate" is not a good excuse, but sorry, I have no other way to get what I need...

"C lets you shoot yourself in the foot rather easily. C++ allows you to reuse the bullet!"
Member of the Shove Pouya Off A Cliff club, SPOAC. (If you wish to join, add this line to your signature.)Member of "Un-Ban nes8bit" association, UNA (to join put this in your sig)
Feral
Feral
Emotionally?

Pirating is theft.

Theft is moraly wrong.


Course that is just how I see it, though frankly I think the logic checks.

I can almost excuse piracy when you have no other way to get the software, or wouldn''t even if you could afford it (because money is better spend else where... like food or rent, etc.). ... Still does not make it right though.
Mithrandir
Mithrandir
quote:
Original post by FeralofFireTop
Emotionally?

Pirating is theft.

Theft is moraly wrong.


Course that is just how I see it, though frankly I think the logic checks.

I can almost excuse piracy when you have no other way to get the software, or wouldn''t even if you could afford it (because money is better spend else where... like food or rent, etc.). ... Still does not make it right though.


Piracy is wrong, but it''s definitely not theft.

Theft involves depriving someone else of a physical object; piracy does no such thing.

The sooner people realize that piracy is not theft and should not be treated in the same way as theft, the sooner we''ll find a solution.
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Yann L
Yann L
quote:
Original post by ShlomiSteinberg
I know, but I wish I had all this $$$ for ALL this software I need... It is a lot of money for me, and my parents would never give this to me.


As I said, in that case you have tons of excellent free alternatives. You can''t afford MSVC ? Use GCC/MingW/DevC++. You can''t afford Photoshop ? Use Gimp. You can''t afford 3DSMax ? Use Blender/Milkshape/etc. You can''t afford WinXP pro ? Use WinXP family, an older version of Windows, or Linux. All of the aforementioned software packages (except Windows) are totally free to download. There is really no excuse for piracy.
LessThanJoe
LessThanJoe
I agree with you, but I''m curious to hear your argurment against pirated music and movies.
superpig
superpig
quote:
Original post by liquidAir
I buy pirated software


That made me smile. (Yes, I know that there''s a large amount of pirated (''counterfeit'') software which is actually sold in fake boxes, but that''s not where 99% of people get their pirated stuff from...)

I''d report the entire facility (not individual people - a whole school using pirated software is infinitely more interesting for the BSA than a single teacher), and probably suggest they check out the military base as well. Never try to send them after individual people; it''s an ineffective use of their time.

Chances are, if the school or base instigate a ''no software piracy'' rule as a result (even as a result of a threat) they''ll stop pirating stuff (or at least, stop pirating most of it). If their own institution is policing them, it''s much more imminent and will be in their minds when doing it - they could actually lose their jobs, rather than just being fined (which is probably what they think would happen).

Superpig
- saving pigs from untimely fates, and when he''s not doing that, runs The Binary Refinery.
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capn_midnight
capn_midnight
quote:
Original post by Yann L
You can''t afford Photoshop ? Use Gimp.

Gimp is not as good as Photoshop 7.

First off, if you really want to run Gimp, you need to be running Linux. Sure, you can download windows ports of Gimp, but until recently they have been buggy as hell, and are still incomplete.

As for the quality of work on Gimp, some of the rendered effects like lens flare look really cheap compared to Photoshop. It''s just not as good. Certainly, if you take an extra hour, you could make it look as good, but that''s lost productivity.

Finally, I''m fairly sure (but not certain) that Gimp does not support pressure sensitive drawing pads. Hell, good luck getting Linux to even recognize the tablet. If you have ever used one with Photoshop 7, you will never want to go back to using a mouse.

Gimp may be pretty good for the price, but it is NOT as good as Photoshop.
Nik02
Nik02
quote:
Original post by capn_midnight
Gimp may be pretty good for the price, but it is NOT as good as Photoshop.


This is not the point.
Photoshop is designed for professional use, and if you're professionally doing some work with it, you get your investment back. I know i did.

Since Gimp is free, one might argue that it's infinitely better choice than Photoshop.

-Nik


[edited by - Nik02 on October 15, 2003 10:58:43 AM]
Niko Suni
Xtremehobo
Xtremehobo
I use to pirate software until people started pirating my own software. that really pissed me off.

So I''m happy to say that I''m running Windows XP Home () legit, with Visual c++ 6 (legit)


...
I guess those have always been legit on my box. I just reformatted my hdd and havn''t reinstalled photoshop pirated
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superpig
superpig
quote:
Original post by capn_midnight
First off, if you really want to run Gimp, you need to be running Linux. Sure, you can download windows ports of Gimp, but until recently they have been buggy as hell, and are still incomplete.

Really? I''ve been running Gimp under both Win32 and Linux for about a year now, and the Win32 version isn''t particularly unstable... it still crashes, certainly, and when it does it''s the plugins that do it. As far as I know it''s never caused me a system hang, though, even with particularly large images.

quote:

As for the quality of work on Gimp, some of the rendered effects like lens flare look really cheap compared to Photoshop. It''s just not as good. Certainly, if you take an extra hour, you could make it look as good, but that''s lost productivity.

As far as the quality of GIMP-produced images goes, bear in mind that most of the people using photoshop will be professional artists (i.e. working for companies which pay for software packages), while most of the GIMP users are not (hell, many of them are even... programmers! ). That doesn''t effect the ''quality'' of computer generated effects like lens flare, sure, but you''ve still got to take it into account.

quote:
Finally, I''m fairly sure (but not certain) that Gimp does not support pressure sensitive drawing pads. Hell, good luck getting Linux to even recognize the tablet. If you have ever used one with Photoshop 7, you will never want to go back to using a mouse.
Yeah, I think that''s accurate (though of course installing the tablet isn''t an issue if you run it under Windows).

quote:

Gimp may be pretty good for the price, but it is NOT as good as Photoshop.

Agreed, but it''s getting damn close...

Superpig
- saving pigs from untimely fates, and when he''s not doing that, runs The Binary Refinery.
Enginuity1 | Enginuity2 | Enginuity3 | Enginuity4
ry. .ibu cy. .abu ry. dy. "sy. .ubu py. .ebu ry. py. .ibu gy." fy. .ibu ny. .ebu
Richard "Superpig" Fine - saving pigs from untimely fates - Microsoft DirectX MVP 2006/2007/2008/2009
"Shaders are not meant to do everything. Of course you can try to use it for everything, but it's like playing football using cabbage." - MickeyMouse
Forestwalker
Forestwalker
quote:
know, but I wish I had all this $$$ for ALL this software I need... It is a lot of money for me, and my parents would never give this to me. Also WinXP Pro (I would go with the home edition but I need networking) costs 400+ (at least) NIS here, 100$. It is hard to find VC .Net here (the legal version). It is very costly here to get the VC (any edition) at all. 18% taxes + 30-50% (at least ) because it is Israel. Games are cheaper and I don''t play much, so I bought a few games but still not all the games I have...I know the "I''m a kid, and don''t have money, so I pirate" is not a good excuse, but sorry, I have no other way to get what I need...

Get a job... simple enough
-Let chi flow through your body-It's all good :)
Houdini
Houdini
quote:
Original post by Mithrandir
Piracy is wrong, but it''s definitely not theft.

Theft involves depriving someone else of a physical object; piracy does no such thing.

The sooner people realize that piracy is not theft and should not be treated in the same way as theft, the sooner we''ll find a solution.

Well said, Mith.


- Houdini
Houdini
superpig
superpig
quote:
Original post by Mithrandir
Piracy is wrong, but it''s definitely not theft.

Theft involves depriving someone else of a physical object; piracy does no such thing.


Sure it does - it deprives the makers of their cold, hard cash.

Superpig
- saving pigs from untimely fates, and when he''s not doing that, runs The Binary Refinery.
Enginuity1 | Enginuity2 | Enginuity3 | Enginuity4
ry. .ibu cy. .abu ry. dy. "sy. .ubu py. .ebu ry. py. .ibu gy." fy. .ibu ny. .ebu
Richard "Superpig" Fine - saving pigs from untimely fates - Microsoft DirectX MVP 2006/2007/2008/2009
"Shaders are not meant to do everything. Of course you can try to use it for everything, but it's like playing football using cabbage." - MickeyMouse

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