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[.net] Redistribution woes?

Started by HopeDagger Nov 21, 2004 at 9:22 PM 9 replies 2.2k views

Original Post

Nov 21, 2004 at 9:22 PM

Alright. I'm a big fan of .NET and the productivity it's granted me, but redistribution has (for me) always been the downside to its huge potential. The .NET framework is a major 21megs, which eliminates dialup users more or less from my audience. Not to mention the Microsoft nay-sayers who won't download it on baseless principle, and the others who are too lazy to download and install some framework that they don't know anything about. I could probably manage that. Probably. But I'd love to use Managed DirectX as well. Slap on another 34megs for that redistributable and you've sliced your audience in half a few more times. I'm aware that numerous developers have these runtimes, but most player-types don't, and just don't care enough to waste their time downloading ~55megs of prerequisites just to try out your game. This is sort of frusterated rant than an actual discussion, but I'm sure that I'm not the only .NET developer feeling this way. :P Edit: Also the primary reason why Java has started to look tempting in my eyes. :/ [Edited by - HopeDagger on November 21, 2004 9:42:08 PM]

Sr_Guapo

Nov 21, 2004 at 10:47 PM

Quote:
Original post by HopeDagger
The .NET framework is a major 21 megs

That isn't really that bad compared to all the other crap people download. If you include it in the download for your game, people probably won't even notice that it is a seperate download, though that may frustrate those that already have the framework...

Quote:
Original post by HopeDagger
Slap on another 34megs for that redistributable

I thought the managed runtimes come with the regular DX runtime? Correct me if I'm wrong...

think of it this way, if your game is good enough, people won't mind spending a little while downloading some runtimes. Try to get your game to that level, then it won't even be an issue.

HopeDagger

Nov 21, 2004 at 11:38 PM

Quote:
I thought the managed runtimes come with the regular DX runtime? Correct me if I'm wrong...

I don't think they do, as all of my test subjects that had DirectX 9.0c were unable to run anything without the MDX runtimes.

Quote:
think of it this way, if your game is good enough, people won't mind spending a little while downloading some runtimes. Try to get your game to that level, then it won't even be an issue.

That doesn't help me get followers in the pre-polished process. :)

kaysik

Nov 21, 2004 at 11:58 PM

Quote:
Original post by Sr_Guapo
think of it this way, if your game is good enough, people won't mind spending a little while downloading some runtimes. Try to get your game to that level, then it won't even be an issue.

I don't agree with this at all! Having to download 55meg to try out some game to me seems like a waste of my time and I wouldn't bother. Its a real issue with .NET and its one of the main reasons I've never bothered to learn it. It doesn't take much to anoy a user and its much easier to not bother downloading your game at all rather than to get the .NET framework, install it then get your game then install that then actually play the thing. I'm sure your good friends would after a few mins of badgering but I really can't see the majority of people doing it!

Even if you download at 32k/s it'll still take 30mins just to get the .NET stuff letalone install it, reset the computer, get your game and start playing (and 4 hours for anyone on dialup). Do you really think most people will bother?

thona

Nov 22, 2004 at 3:35 AM

Well, mostpeople HAVE it. Like DIrectX 9.0c - it is in the download list from WindowsUpdate.

The Managed Dx "Runtime" btw is not included in end user stuff with a purpose. You are supposed to redistribute the Managed Direct DLL's with YOUR software. THey are not 34 Mb, btw - tyou only need to redistribute the dll's themselves, they will work with an end user DirectX.

Our software is smaller and checks .NET framework etc. downloading it from the net when needed automatically, including DirectX. Keeps the download small. A note on the download page (will download and install DirectX 9.0c and .NET Framework 1.1) is enough to get most people try it. Ok, we do not talk of small games here.

That said - most game demoes I DO download are in the 200 Mb range ANYWAY. Thanks to the size of the graphics and music.

cavemanbob

Nov 22, 2004 at 9:16 PM

I thought people on dialup would be reluctant to download 21MB for the .NET at one point too. After writing MySEQ (A total of about 200kb without the maps), which is a program to cheat at Everquest for the non-EQ people, and watching the droves of people swarm onto that including countless dialup people, I've since come to the conclusion that the problem isn't so much the download as much as giving people something they REALLY want...

DrGUI

Nov 23, 2004 at 9:57 AM

I have dialup. You can't really download anything > 6 or 7 mb if you use a pay as you go system too. The computer that I use is not connected to the internet (my dad's is because it has all the antivirus softare + firewall) so I hate stuff that tries to access the internet.

.NET framework takes ages to install esp with reboot on Win 2k.

DrGUI

Nov 23, 2004 at 9:59 AM

Quote:
Original post by thona
Well, mostpeople HAVE it. Like DIrectX 9.0c - it is in the download list from WindowsUpdate.

The Managed Dx "Runtime" btw is not included in end user stuff with a purpose. You are supposed to redistribute the Managed Direct DLL's with YOUR software. THey are not 34 Mb, btw - tyou only need to redistribute the dll's themselves, they will work with an end user DirectX.

Our software is smaller and checks .NET framework etc. downloading it from the net when needed automatically, including DirectX. Keeps the download small. A note on the download page (will download and install DirectX 9.0c and .NET Framework 1.1) is enough to get most people try it. Ok, we do not talk of small games here.

That said - most game demoes I DO download are in the 200 Mb range ANYWAY. Thanks to the size of the graphics and music.

Unlike me, most of my friends aren't very good with computers at all. I don't think they'll use Windows Update. Also, people with dialup probably don't use Windows Update either because of size.

weevilgenius

Nov 23, 2004 at 12:07 PM

The next consumer version of Windows will assuredly include whatever version of the .NET platform that is current at the time. Windows 2003 Server already does. And managed DirectX most likely. One small benefit from the Microsoft monopoly.

falkone

Nov 23, 2004 at 12:15 PM

Quote:
Original post by Sr_Guapo
think of it this way, if your game is good enough, people won't mind spending a little while downloading some runtimes.

How will they know if it's a good game or not if they have to sit through a five hour download to find out? Even with my 2.4Mbit downstream, I'm reluctant to download games that might suck.

Sr_Guapo

Nov 23, 2004 at 6:16 PM

22 MB really isn't that much. People already had to download the DX redist to p[lay all their other games (Halo, HL, though these were probably on the CD...). The .NET runtime is similar. It is not just for YOUR game. It can be used with a multitude of programs and will be a neccesary in the near future. If you can let the end user understand this, they will not be as reluctant to download the files.

If you include them with your game download, or auto download them during your game install, people won't see it like a huge inconvenience, and just a part of the installation.

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