Original Post
This guide has been read and commented on by actual, respected developers - New Comment by a Digipen Professor. Comments quoted below (with permission) A Potential Game Programmer's Guide to a Future in the Industy: Degree to Skill Mappings Videogames are becoming progressively more complicated, indeed, the level of complexity of these gameworlds is arguably among the highest when ranked with other fields of work. This shows especially in the field of game programming which is amazing in the amount of seemingly unrelated fields it dips and stretches it fingers into. In fact the term game programmer can no longer be assumed to mean the one who handles all the details of making a game concept a digital reality. There are many people with highly contrasting skill areas who work together to make such. I see many posts made asking on which game university is best and often the replies are along the lines of the avoidance of such and the studying of a traditional degree. These replies are correct, not because of any lack of teaching in these trade schools (in fact one may argue a higher quality of teaching in these) but rather, the certainty with which they pave into or require of one's future. For reasons I shall address later careful thought is suggested before entry into such pathways are taken. However, for now, more important is the fact that people rarely point out which degrees map best to the area of programming the questioner is most interested in. This is what I have attempted to do, any corrections of errors and suggestions are most welcome. Myself, I am not in the game industry and so my terminology may be incorrect and there are probably more levels of division of game programmer than I gave. I do not read extensively on the game industry or even the software one, much of what I say is based on thought and logical inferences; the post may reflect that. Any corrections as to these would be most apreciated. Also in the spirit of an enlightened discussion I ask that all those who disagree with my mappings give reasons, many, including me, would be able to learn from the differing reasonings. Also, iff you can spare the time please PM me telling me how I did, this will be most appreciated, especially if you have direct experience in this stuff. I plan to obtain a PHD in some area of theoretical physics after I recieve my regular degree [now in Mathematics :)]. Being able to extrapolate on area I have little first hand experience in with indirect reasoning and come to remarkably accurate conclusions is a skill I need to have a lot of points in. [grin] Most Appropriate Degrees:
The Engine Programmers 3D Graphics Programmer - Software Engineering (3) with a minor in Physics (5) or Mathematics (4.a, 4,e, 4.f and 4.d ) suggested A 3D graphics programmer is the person who allows the visualization of the worlds to be as close to reality as technologically possible. There are many methods to achieve this the most popular of which are ray based and triangle based techniques. Currently the method where triangles are projected onto a scene with various techniques (lighting, transformations etc.) performed on them to make them represent the real world. People often feel this methods are hackish (especially in areas related to illumination) in nature and much prefer the less real time raytraced visualizations. As technology progresses the combination of both techniques will begin to be more common. 2D Graphics Programmer - Software Engineering (3) These people used to be the people in charge of the visualization process until the 3D revolution. The job more or less involved displaying images held as arrays of bits and performing various tricks on them to achieve effects. They are no longer common and such is often now relegated to UI etc. programming. Even the 2D techniques used there are different being triangle based and not pixel tossing. With the growth of the mobile gaming industry however the return of the 2D Graphics Programmer is eminent. Standard Software Engineering should prove sufficient for this job area. Game Audio Programmer*** - Software Engineering (3) with a suggested minor in physics (5) I know little on audio programming but feel that there are at least two levels of audio programming. The game audio programmer often makes use of various API to play sounds. Various techniques are used for the creation of the effect of position and the location of sound. The various sound effects are attached to objects and tied together to give a more natural feel to the environment. Audio programming is often overlooked and there is a movement to make audio more than just stuff that is triggered by graphics, i.e. the creation of a more natural environment vs. the effect of click or walking into an object. Understanding of the various file formats and audio hardware is a requirement. Software Engineering is the most relevant degree although a bit of physics may prove useful for the proper emulation of the physical behaviour of sound. Low level Audio Programmer ** - Electronic Engineering (1) The low level audio programmer deals with the signals coming into the sound card and how they the hardware handles and translates them. They often write drivers and interfaces to the sound hardware and are quite hardcore. The most relevant degree would most likely be Computer and Electronic Engineering. Network Programmer *** - Communications/Computer Engineering, Mathematics The network programmer writes and designs the structure and communications framework by which multiple applications can communicate through over a network. The programs communicate with packets of a certain size and the topic of synchronization is a most important one, especially when dealing with physics. A degree in software engineering or maybe computer/communications engineering is useful. A minor in mathematics is suggested. Physics Programmer - Software Engineering (3) Mathematics (4.a, 4.b, 4.e and 4.f) or Mechanical Engineering with a focus on CAD The physics programmer's job is to add another level of realism to the game programming world. This is focused in making things fall properly and also move realistically. After the rigid body dynamics where the concept of a set of rigid points are studied when a velocities and forces are applied to the them the idea of springs is very important to the physics programmer. Cloth, ropes, jelly are all modelled using springs (actually the use of springs as a representational tool is not limited to game physics and finds much employment in various areas of general physics as well). Using a numeric integrator such as the Runge Kutta Integrator to solve a set of differential equations (i.e. non driven case: ma = -kx - bv) which describe how the spring(s) behave(s). The topic of Computational Geometry in mathematics also finds use in the area of dynamics , representation of objects and collision detection. AI ** - Mathematics (4) or Computer Science (6) with a minor in AI or neurology, if such a combination is possible for Researcher and Software Engineering (3) with a Mathematics (4.c , 4.e and 4.f) minor for programmer The field of AI involves the attempt to create technologies that gives various computational devices a semblance of intelligence. It generalizes to the goal of creating general thinking devices that are able to solve various problems without prebuilt responses. Or at least give an image of expertise and thought without a database of stimuli responses. This is also generalized to the recognition and various scenarios of objects and reacting within a general framework. The idea of a system which learns and evolves on its own is most important. With games the focus is in an attempt to create seemingly realistic behaviour in the actors cheaply. The esoteric and costly methods of proper AI are often eschewed for a more mathematically simple approximations. Mathematics is important for this degree and although some universities have pure AI degrees these are advised to only those who wish to do intensive research. A software engineering + AI minor (specfically, a set of classes with emphasis in the Artificial Intelligence branch of study) combination should do for most cases. The Game Architects Lead Game Programmer*** - Software Engineering (3), maybe Computer Science (6); While not necessary Mathematics (4.e) may prove useful The lead programmer's task is as a driving force and the maintenance of a cohesive structure between the various programming groups. The lead programmer designs the generic framework and guidelines all the groups must adhere to. There is much skill required and when done correctly should prove to be highly stressful. Tool and Misc. - Software Engineering(3) The tools programmer is the hidden part of the development process that is often overlooked because of its vital but transparent necessity in the creation process. The tools programmer serves as a go between the various areas by creating various tools and formats for the use by the game. Various tools would include a world editing tool, character editor, scripting language and editor, sound graphics and many other tools that are required for the making of a game than can be mentioned in a single page or ten. Gameplay etc. Programmer/Architect(s)* Software Engineering (3) The gameplay programmer is the traditional programmer that comes to mind when one envisions a game programmer. These were the days when 95% of the programming work was involved in gameplay. The gameplay programmer no longer holds a monopoly on game development but nonetheless still arguably has the most important job of properly conveying the imagined feel to the player. The game play programmer does all the things that affect how the game is played and experienced. Things such as battle mechanics, health and its representation puzzles etc are all handled by the gameplay programmer. A degree in software engineering is most important.
Why a Degree in Game Programming is suggested for only those with the Strongest of Hearts - In other words: Be sure in your Certainty It is unfortunate that the greater populace considers game programming a fake job, one composed of directionless individuals who need to grow up and do some real work. This is far from the case. Game programming is one of the most complex fields out there. A degree in game programming is highly advised against unless you are most certain of your path for the following reasons: (1) It is similar to a tattoo in that it locks you into a future that will be difficult to change if your interests ever shift. (2) It is new and so the methods are untested and still in the experimental stage. There is a distinct lack of structure in the method of knowledge transfer that can be seen in the more time tested degrees. (3) The experts of the field are largely self taught and so are more likely to teach their methods than generic ones useful to different modes of thought. (4) The working conditions of the game industry is reminiscent of those of factories in the late 1800s and early 1900s. The structure, at least from the outside seems very un-cohesive and the publishers seem most abusive. The job is stressful and relatively low paying for the amount of work done and expertise required. It leaves you drained and unable to do anything else. To really make it you will have to live for games and little else. Consequence of Listed Points Quite often in the middle of a degree you will find often that it is not all you wished it to be. If you are in a Games Based University such a switch would be most difficult and so if you are set on such a degree consider doing so from an accredited or more established university. Studying for a general degree is suggested and probably more respected even in the games industry as the people know what more to expect from a person who has attained such due to the age and standardizations achieved in these programs. Also the game industry is it seems, quite saturated and you will probably need a few tide over jobs till you can find a position in that industry. A general degree leaves you with a greater range of options and a higher pay of jobs to select from. Indeed, quite often you will find yourself taking a pay cut to follow your dreams as you change industries. Also, because of (4) you may burn yourself out in the game industry. The dedication, constant immersion and lack of time for other more relaxing activities may prove to be too much for some. With a more well known degree it should prove easier to exit the game industry. (2) will make it so that one with a games degree will need an incredibly impressive portfolio to switch into a well paying job in another industry, the level or nature of complexity of your various undertakings will be over the head for the recruiters of those in another industry. Your accomplishment in the game industry most be very visible. Such a focused degree places a great deal of pressure on you and narrowlines your path. Also, Ill emphasize, it is not that game development is especially stressful (it is, but arguably not overwhelmingly so) , rather it is that most people enter it with wrong preconceptions as to how things are. This disillusionment is the worst aspect and the true killer. These reasons outline, more or less, why a generic degree should be attained. I hope this has proven useful and plan to extend this to the more artsy portions of game development. Suggestions and comments welcome. Well firstly I agree with your conclusion that game development degrees should be avoided unless you really don't want to do any other subject. I don't think they offer you any advantage of getting into the games industry than any other degree, and would hinder you in finding work outside the industry. That said, I wouldn't rule out a game development degree completely. My advice would be for the person to take whatever degree they feel they would enjoy most. There is surely nothing worse than spending at least 3 years learning about a subject that you couldn't really care less about. Plus you are far less likely to do well in it if you don't enjoy it. I think doing a degree is a bit like working in the games industry, you have to really enjoy it if you want to do well. Both require you to study and work in your spare time, and if you aren’t committed, you wont get very far.
Comments from those in the industry: - 3 comments, Left Anonymous for respect of Privacy Comment 1 of 2 "I think your post is correct in the degree mappings, and certainly highlights the fact that you can pretty much fill any game development position with one of 5-10 traditional degrees. Personally I am a Physics Programmer with a degree in physics, and I find I use about 5-10% of the material I learnt during my degree. I don't really think it’s the material that you are taught that is most important though, it is the skills that you acquire during a degree. Skills like the ability to sit down and solve a problem, and research a topic on your own. All of these are important in the games industry, as you will be doing most of your learning in your own time. I think the main thing employers look for in the games industry is, in the words of the guy who interviewed me for my current job, people who "give a shit". This generally means people who have done game development in their spare time. They also want people who wont need their hands held all the time, they want people who can solve problems and learn for themselves. Most companies can't afford to have another programmer train up a new graduate, they just don't have the resources to do it. A solid degree in a traditional subject pretty much guarantees the graduate has these skills." ---------------------- Comment 2 of 3 "Generally, I agree that folks wanting to get into the games industry should get a standard university education, not a degree from a "game university". I'd prefer to see regular universities provide general training with the option to major in some field in the games industry. What I look for when interviewing job candidates are skills in analytical reasoning, knowledge of software engineering, and experience working on a large code base with a team of people. Regarding mathematics training, Number Theory is one field I have used nothing from in the games industry (and I started out in graduate school in this field). Probability and Statistics, although important, are not something you see on the graphics/physics side. Maybe you do in AI, but I am not an AI person and cannot comment about this. What is missing from the list, and is usually not separated out as a separate topic from the general topics covered in Computer Science is what I call "Computational Mathematics". This involves creating algorithms that are inherently mathematical, but paying attention to the problems that arise when computing with floating-point arithmetic." ---------------------------- Comment 3 of 3 "It annoys me to see so much disinformation circulating on these boards. Before I even start, I think it is important to recognize my bias: I am a scientist, a researcher, a coder, and a professor at Digipen. I feel personally motivated to write down a few words about the program. I'm not doing this for job security as I could work teaching my subject at any number of small private schools. I am doing this for the students currently in the program that will someday look for a job at a company or a position in a graduate school. I owe it to them for the pain I put them through. Digipen has a difficult curriculum. It would be substantially easier to study computer science at most big-name universities. The graduation rate at Digipen is low, hovering just above 50%. Most private schools graduate just over 60%. The median (50th percentile) incoming freshman at Digipen scored 1310 on the SAT last year (2004). Combine this fact with the previous paragraph, and you'll see that the caliber of the outgoing student is going to be high. Digipen has even had graduates from other prestigious universities (Oxford, Princeton, others) come to Digipen for a second *undergraduate* degree (before the master's program was offered). The education at Digipen is not a standard trade-school education. The goal at dP is to drive the industry by educating the game creators of tomorrow, not to provide brainless monkey labor for the code mills. Look at the curriculum and compare it to other 4-year bachelor's degrees (UW, MIT, Stanford...). http://www.digipen.edu/programs/degrees/rtisbs.html That's a minimum of 7 (semesters of) Math classes, 18 Computer Science, 4 English, 2 Physics, 2 Art, and many electives. That averages to almost 1 math class per semeseter for all 4 years, and over 2 CS classes every semeseter. Add to that math-heavy CS curriculum 8 semesters of game projects, and you have Digipen. In these classes, we don't pull punches. We only pass the students that we feel have truly learned the material. Comparing teaching classes here to other large universities, the students here work harder, learn more, and complain less. They tend to be unabashed geeks who are interested in the material because they know they will have to use it. I don't get any whiny premeds complaining to the dean about their (*&^(! B that they got. Those students that graduate from Digipen, most of them (more than 70%) get jobs in the game industry *within 3 months*. There are a number who decide not to program games and take up coding jobs at Microsoft or other companies. Some graduates decide to take a vacation after graduation. Some go to graduate school for CS (NYU and others) after graduation. I personally have had non-game software developers request lists of students. This year (Class of 2005), Digipen had more than 50% of its senior class signing contracts *before* they graduated. Even today, Digipen had an employer calling and asking for more graduates (arenanet looking for more like the six dP graduates they already have). There are a few graduates, particularly some of the ones with the AS (2-year degree) that we used to offer (before we started the Master's Program), that are not ideal candidates. You will find this from any school. If you represent a game company trying to hire a Digipen graduate, and you wait until well after graduation, you will be missing some of the best students. Take a look at some of the games that Digipen students have won awards with in the past: http://www.digipen.edu/programs/gallery/games/award.html This next year, there will be even more award-winning games (they will be up on the website in the next few months). These are games built up from scratch by students, using tools that they write themselves. Even the graphics are done by students as well (although some have art student teams working with them). For the students-- Digipen is NOT for everyone. I would only recommend Digipen RTIS if the candidate: 1- is determined to make it in the games industry. 2- has excellent logic skills 3- is able to handle a low-female cross-section for years 4- is able to table obsessive playing of games 5- is ready for 4 years of 12 hour+ workdays 6- can work in a team as a team member 7- realizes that education is about your knowledge, and not what peice of paper you earn. 8- is an unabashed geek 9- can tolerate the 'freshman funk' of a few too many unbathed students If you can make yourself write your own games from scratch, or have a reliable team, and you either go to a well-known institution or can self-educate (Gates), then you can save money from not going to Digipen. An informative anecdote: One of the soph. projects this year required the team to apply methods of integration at a higher level than they had learned (there are some junior-level classes on that here). The team overcame a series of problems to make their game (Ivar's Adieu) successful and gave a talk at the University of Washington to the juniors and seniors at the applied computer and mathematics department there. They will be giving a talk at the northwest regional mathematics conference in the fall. To game companies that toss Digipen's applications aside: do so at your own loss. Right now, Digipen is not hurting for placing candidates in good jobs. I hope that, in the future, all companies will take a fair look over the resume and portfolio of Digipen students. Even better, I would invite those companies that are tempted to ignore dP applications to come out to Digipen and take a look. You won't see flashy neon lights or beautiful brick and glass. The campus doesn't look fancy-- that would be a waste of student money and it would attract the wrong crowd. Digipen isn't about the looks, it's about the performance. Digipen doesn't exist to make a profit on the game industry. Digipen is here to support the industry and give it direction. If you are part of the industry, and you have comments for Digipen, they want to hear your opinion."
Related and Interesting Threads: (1) A thread on "Employee Rights in the Gaming Industry" (2) Discussion on the difference between Software Engineering and Computer Science and Obtaining a Masters vs. Gaining Experience (3) A thread on what to learn to enter the graphics programming area of the industry Highlight Post
(1) Electronic/Computer Engineering
(2) Mechanical Engineering
(3) Software Engineering
(4) Mathematics – with Emphasis on:
(a) Computational Geometry
(b) Dynamics
(c) Nonlinear Dynamics
(d) Number Theory - This is retained due to the fact that a good grasp of Number Theory allows for the creation of Good Algorithims
(e) Other Higher Level Math - Graph Theory,Topology,Logic, Statistics and Probability Theory and Discrete Maths
(f) Traditional High Level Mathematics - Linear Algebra, Vector and Differential Calculus etc.
(g) Computational Mathematics<Sup>1</sup>
(5) Physics - Focus on classical phenomena , also has 4.f,4.b, 4.e and 4.f.
(6) Computer Science
The Engine Programmers 3D Graphics Programmer - Software Engineering (3) with a minor in Physics (5) or Mathematics (4.a, 4,e, 4.f and 4.d ) suggested A 3D graphics programmer is the person who allows the visualization of the worlds to be as close to reality as technologically possible. There are many methods to achieve this the most popular of which are ray based and triangle based techniques. Currently the method where triangles are projected onto a scene with various techniques (lighting, transformations etc.) performed on them to make them represent the real world. People often feel this methods are hackish (especially in areas related to illumination) in nature and much prefer the less real time raytraced visualizations. As technology progresses the combination of both techniques will begin to be more common. 2D Graphics Programmer - Software Engineering (3) These people used to be the people in charge of the visualization process until the 3D revolution. The job more or less involved displaying images held as arrays of bits and performing various tricks on them to achieve effects. They are no longer common and such is often now relegated to UI etc. programming. Even the 2D techniques used there are different being triangle based and not pixel tossing. With the growth of the mobile gaming industry however the return of the 2D Graphics Programmer is eminent. Standard Software Engineering should prove sufficient for this job area. Game Audio Programmer*** - Software Engineering (3) with a suggested minor in physics (5) I know little on audio programming but feel that there are at least two levels of audio programming. The game audio programmer often makes use of various API to play sounds. Various techniques are used for the creation of the effect of position and the location of sound. The various sound effects are attached to objects and tied together to give a more natural feel to the environment. Audio programming is often overlooked and there is a movement to make audio more than just stuff that is triggered by graphics, i.e. the creation of a more natural environment vs. the effect of click or walking into an object. Understanding of the various file formats and audio hardware is a requirement. Software Engineering is the most relevant degree although a bit of physics may prove useful for the proper emulation of the physical behaviour of sound. Low level Audio Programmer ** - Electronic Engineering (1) The low level audio programmer deals with the signals coming into the sound card and how they the hardware handles and translates them. They often write drivers and interfaces to the sound hardware and are quite hardcore. The most relevant degree would most likely be Computer and Electronic Engineering. Network Programmer *** - Communications/Computer Engineering, Mathematics The network programmer writes and designs the structure and communications framework by which multiple applications can communicate through over a network. The programs communicate with packets of a certain size and the topic of synchronization is a most important one, especially when dealing with physics. A degree in software engineering or maybe computer/communications engineering is useful. A minor in mathematics is suggested. Physics Programmer - Software Engineering (3) Mathematics (4.a, 4.b, 4.e and 4.f) or Mechanical Engineering with a focus on CAD The physics programmer's job is to add another level of realism to the game programming world. This is focused in making things fall properly and also move realistically. After the rigid body dynamics where the concept of a set of rigid points are studied when a velocities and forces are applied to the them the idea of springs is very important to the physics programmer. Cloth, ropes, jelly are all modelled using springs (actually the use of springs as a representational tool is not limited to game physics and finds much employment in various areas of general physics as well). Using a numeric integrator such as the Runge Kutta Integrator to solve a set of differential equations (i.e. non driven case: ma = -kx - bv) which describe how the spring(s) behave(s). The topic of Computational Geometry in mathematics also finds use in the area of dynamics , representation of objects and collision detection. AI ** - Mathematics (4) or Computer Science (6) with a minor in AI or neurology, if such a combination is possible for Researcher and Software Engineering (3) with a Mathematics (4.c , 4.e and 4.f) minor for programmer The field of AI involves the attempt to create technologies that gives various computational devices a semblance of intelligence. It generalizes to the goal of creating general thinking devices that are able to solve various problems without prebuilt responses. Or at least give an image of expertise and thought without a database of stimuli responses. This is also generalized to the recognition and various scenarios of objects and reacting within a general framework. The idea of a system which learns and evolves on its own is most important. With games the focus is in an attempt to create seemingly realistic behaviour in the actors cheaply. The esoteric and costly methods of proper AI are often eschewed for a more mathematically simple approximations. Mathematics is important for this degree and although some universities have pure AI degrees these are advised to only those who wish to do intensive research. A software engineering + AI minor (specfically, a set of classes with emphasis in the Artificial Intelligence branch of study) combination should do for most cases. The Game Architects Lead Game Programmer*** - Software Engineering (3), maybe Computer Science (6); While not necessary Mathematics (4.e) may prove useful The lead programmer's task is as a driving force and the maintenance of a cohesive structure between the various programming groups. The lead programmer designs the generic framework and guidelines all the groups must adhere to. There is much skill required and when done correctly should prove to be highly stressful. Tool and Misc. - Software Engineering(3) The tools programmer is the hidden part of the development process that is often overlooked because of its vital but transparent necessity in the creation process. The tools programmer serves as a go between the various areas by creating various tools and formats for the use by the game. Various tools would include a world editing tool, character editor, scripting language and editor, sound graphics and many other tools that are required for the making of a game than can be mentioned in a single page or ten. Gameplay etc. Programmer/Architect(s)* Software Engineering (3) The gameplay programmer is the traditional programmer that comes to mind when one envisions a game programmer. These were the days when 95% of the programming work was involved in gameplay. The gameplay programmer no longer holds a monopoly on game development but nonetheless still arguably has the most important job of properly conveying the imagined feel to the player. The game play programmer does all the things that affect how the game is played and experienced. Things such as battle mechanics, health and its representation puzzles etc are all handled by the gameplay programmer. A degree in software engineering is most important.
Why a Degree in Game Programming is suggested for only those with the Strongest of Hearts - In other words: Be sure in your Certainty It is unfortunate that the greater populace considers game programming a fake job, one composed of directionless individuals who need to grow up and do some real work. This is far from the case. Game programming is one of the most complex fields out there. A degree in game programming is highly advised against unless you are most certain of your path for the following reasons: (1) It is similar to a tattoo in that it locks you into a future that will be difficult to change if your interests ever shift. (2) It is new and so the methods are untested and still in the experimental stage. There is a distinct lack of structure in the method of knowledge transfer that can be seen in the more time tested degrees. (3) The experts of the field are largely self taught and so are more likely to teach their methods than generic ones useful to different modes of thought. (4) The working conditions of the game industry is reminiscent of those of factories in the late 1800s and early 1900s. The structure, at least from the outside seems very un-cohesive and the publishers seem most abusive. The job is stressful and relatively low paying for the amount of work done and expertise required. It leaves you drained and unable to do anything else. To really make it you will have to live for games and little else. Consequence of Listed Points Quite often in the middle of a degree you will find often that it is not all you wished it to be. If you are in a Games Based University such a switch would be most difficult and so if you are set on such a degree consider doing so from an accredited or more established university. Studying for a general degree is suggested and probably more respected even in the games industry as the people know what more to expect from a person who has attained such due to the age and standardizations achieved in these programs. Also the game industry is it seems, quite saturated and you will probably need a few tide over jobs till you can find a position in that industry. A general degree leaves you with a greater range of options and a higher pay of jobs to select from. Indeed, quite often you will find yourself taking a pay cut to follow your dreams as you change industries. Also, because of (4) you may burn yourself out in the game industry. The dedication, constant immersion and lack of time for other more relaxing activities may prove to be too much for some. With a more well known degree it should prove easier to exit the game industry. (2) will make it so that one with a games degree will need an incredibly impressive portfolio to switch into a well paying job in another industry, the level or nature of complexity of your various undertakings will be over the head for the recruiters of those in another industry. Your accomplishment in the game industry most be very visible. Such a focused degree places a great deal of pressure on you and narrowlines your path. Also, Ill emphasize, it is not that game development is especially stressful (it is, but arguably not overwhelmingly so) , rather it is that most people enter it with wrong preconceptions as to how things are. This disillusionment is the worst aspect and the true killer. These reasons outline, more or less, why a generic degree should be attained. I hope this has proven useful and plan to extend this to the more artsy portions of game development. Suggestions and comments welcome. Well firstly I agree with your conclusion that game development degrees should be avoided unless you really don't want to do any other subject. I don't think they offer you any advantage of getting into the games industry than any other degree, and would hinder you in finding work outside the industry. That said, I wouldn't rule out a game development degree completely. My advice would be for the person to take whatever degree they feel they would enjoy most. There is surely nothing worse than spending at least 3 years learning about a subject that you couldn't really care less about. Plus you are far less likely to do well in it if you don't enjoy it. I think doing a degree is a bit like working in the games industry, you have to really enjoy it if you want to do well. Both require you to study and work in your spare time, and if you aren’t committed, you wont get very far.
Comments from those in the industry: - 3 comments, Left Anonymous for respect of Privacy Comment 1 of 2 "I think your post is correct in the degree mappings, and certainly highlights the fact that you can pretty much fill any game development position with one of 5-10 traditional degrees. Personally I am a Physics Programmer with a degree in physics, and I find I use about 5-10% of the material I learnt during my degree. I don't really think it’s the material that you are taught that is most important though, it is the skills that you acquire during a degree. Skills like the ability to sit down and solve a problem, and research a topic on your own. All of these are important in the games industry, as you will be doing most of your learning in your own time. I think the main thing employers look for in the games industry is, in the words of the guy who interviewed me for my current job, people who "give a shit". This generally means people who have done game development in their spare time. They also want people who wont need their hands held all the time, they want people who can solve problems and learn for themselves. Most companies can't afford to have another programmer train up a new graduate, they just don't have the resources to do it. A solid degree in a traditional subject pretty much guarantees the graduate has these skills." ---------------------- Comment 2 of 3 "Generally, I agree that folks wanting to get into the games industry should get a standard university education, not a degree from a "game university". I'd prefer to see regular universities provide general training with the option to major in some field in the games industry. What I look for when interviewing job candidates are skills in analytical reasoning, knowledge of software engineering, and experience working on a large code base with a team of people. Regarding mathematics training, Number Theory is one field I have used nothing from in the games industry (and I started out in graduate school in this field). Probability and Statistics, although important, are not something you see on the graphics/physics side. Maybe you do in AI, but I am not an AI person and cannot comment about this. What is missing from the list, and is usually not separated out as a separate topic from the general topics covered in Computer Science is what I call "Computational Mathematics". This involves creating algorithms that are inherently mathematical, but paying attention to the problems that arise when computing with floating-point arithmetic." ---------------------------- Comment 3 of 3 "It annoys me to see so much disinformation circulating on these boards. Before I even start, I think it is important to recognize my bias: I am a scientist, a researcher, a coder, and a professor at Digipen. I feel personally motivated to write down a few words about the program. I'm not doing this for job security as I could work teaching my subject at any number of small private schools. I am doing this for the students currently in the program that will someday look for a job at a company or a position in a graduate school. I owe it to them for the pain I put them through. Digipen has a difficult curriculum. It would be substantially easier to study computer science at most big-name universities. The graduation rate at Digipen is low, hovering just above 50%. Most private schools graduate just over 60%. The median (50th percentile) incoming freshman at Digipen scored 1310 on the SAT last year (2004). Combine this fact with the previous paragraph, and you'll see that the caliber of the outgoing student is going to be high. Digipen has even had graduates from other prestigious universities (Oxford, Princeton, others) come to Digipen for a second *undergraduate* degree (before the master's program was offered). The education at Digipen is not a standard trade-school education. The goal at dP is to drive the industry by educating the game creators of tomorrow, not to provide brainless monkey labor for the code mills. Look at the curriculum and compare it to other 4-year bachelor's degrees (UW, MIT, Stanford...). http://www.digipen.edu/programs/degrees/rtisbs.html That's a minimum of 7 (semesters of) Math classes, 18 Computer Science, 4 English, 2 Physics, 2 Art, and many electives. That averages to almost 1 math class per semeseter for all 4 years, and over 2 CS classes every semeseter. Add to that math-heavy CS curriculum 8 semesters of game projects, and you have Digipen. In these classes, we don't pull punches. We only pass the students that we feel have truly learned the material. Comparing teaching classes here to other large universities, the students here work harder, learn more, and complain less. They tend to be unabashed geeks who are interested in the material because they know they will have to use it. I don't get any whiny premeds complaining to the dean about their (*&^(! B that they got. Those students that graduate from Digipen, most of them (more than 70%) get jobs in the game industry *within 3 months*. There are a number who decide not to program games and take up coding jobs at Microsoft or other companies. Some graduates decide to take a vacation after graduation. Some go to graduate school for CS (NYU and others) after graduation. I personally have had non-game software developers request lists of students. This year (Class of 2005), Digipen had more than 50% of its senior class signing contracts *before* they graduated. Even today, Digipen had an employer calling and asking for more graduates (arenanet looking for more like the six dP graduates they already have). There are a few graduates, particularly some of the ones with the AS (2-year degree) that we used to offer (before we started the Master's Program), that are not ideal candidates. You will find this from any school. If you represent a game company trying to hire a Digipen graduate, and you wait until well after graduation, you will be missing some of the best students. Take a look at some of the games that Digipen students have won awards with in the past: http://www.digipen.edu/programs/gallery/games/award.html This next year, there will be even more award-winning games (they will be up on the website in the next few months). These are games built up from scratch by students, using tools that they write themselves. Even the graphics are done by students as well (although some have art student teams working with them). For the students-- Digipen is NOT for everyone. I would only recommend Digipen RTIS if the candidate: 1- is determined to make it in the games industry. 2- has excellent logic skills 3- is able to handle a low-female cross-section for years 4- is able to table obsessive playing of games 5- is ready for 4 years of 12 hour+ workdays 6- can work in a team as a team member 7- realizes that education is about your knowledge, and not what peice of paper you earn. 8- is an unabashed geek 9- can tolerate the 'freshman funk' of a few too many unbathed students If you can make yourself write your own games from scratch, or have a reliable team, and you either go to a well-known institution or can self-educate (Gates), then you can save money from not going to Digipen. An informative anecdote: One of the soph. projects this year required the team to apply methods of integration at a higher level than they had learned (there are some junior-level classes on that here). The team overcame a series of problems to make their game (Ivar's Adieu) successful and gave a talk at the University of Washington to the juniors and seniors at the applied computer and mathematics department there. They will be giving a talk at the northwest regional mathematics conference in the fall. To game companies that toss Digipen's applications aside: do so at your own loss. Right now, Digipen is not hurting for placing candidates in good jobs. I hope that, in the future, all companies will take a fair look over the resume and portfolio of Digipen students. Even better, I would invite those companies that are tempted to ignore dP applications to come out to Digipen and take a look. You won't see flashy neon lights or beautiful brick and glass. The campus doesn't look fancy-- that would be a waste of student money and it would attract the wrong crowd. Digipen isn't about the looks, it's about the performance. Digipen doesn't exist to make a profit on the game industry. Digipen is here to support the industry and give it direction. If you are part of the industry, and you have comments for Digipen, they want to hear your opinion."
Related and Interesting Threads: (1) A thread on "Employee Rights in the Gaming Industry" (2) Discussion on the difference between Software Engineering and Computer Science and Obtaining a Masters vs. Gaining Experience (3) A thread on what to learn to enter the graphics programming area of the industry Highlight Post
Quote:(4) A thread on Universities vs. Tech Schools Highlight Posts
Original post by hplus0603 I help hiring at the place I work, and here's my take on what would help you: College won't teach you the skills you need in gaming, by and large -- and the colleges that do (Full Sail, etc) don't really teach you much else that would be useful in life. I suggest taking all the math you can. It also helps to take signal processing, and classic "hard" CS subjects like systems architecture, operating systems, etc. An understanding of the other sciences (physics, etc) as well as EE will also come in handy -- especially if you take signal processing. Then, spend your off time working on gaming projects, and learning real-life programming on your own. Join an opensource project, and help out. It doesn't matter if it's games or not; it matters more that it's active and has a developer community that discusses the code. The best way of learning is to read other people's code. Get in under the hood wherever you can. In the final year, write a demo of some sort. Don't go overboard; pick something simple like an Asteroids clone. Don't over-design it, but also don't hack it up. Make SURE it runs well on a variety of hardware, because someone looking at it will give it a double-click from a CD or downloaded ZIP; if it doesn't work, it's in the trash.
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Original post by lukeyes Hi, This question comes up a lot. And I don't really know the answer. BUT, I work for a medium-sized developer, so hopefully I can give you some information, and let you decide how it weighs into your career path. Where I work, almost all the artists have gone to an art school. Mainly the Art Institute of Seattle, as companies tend to hire artists locally. Also, referrals are a BIG thing in the game industry. So when one person comes to a company, when openings come up, they tend to get filled by friends and acquaintances. However, I will warn you that having a friend in the industry is not a free ticket to a job. You MUST be talented and hard-working. Now, personally, I'm a programmer. And programmers at my company run the whole gamut of life experiences. There is a large percentage of people who never even went to college, or if they did, did not finish college. There are also a few people from the game-specific tech schools. I work with people who came from both Digipen and Full Sail. Out of those two, even the guy from Full Sail even says that Digipen is a better school. Both of these guys are pretty knowledgeable about what they are doing. However, the guy from Digipen is a PHENOMENAL coder when it comes to coding under a deadline. Part of it is the guy's talent, but from asking around, Digipen really trains people for the industry. I, on the other hand, am one of a few who went to university. Actually, I went to both a tech school and university. Tech school really trained me to easily get an IT job straight out of school, but it did NOT train me in anything gearing towards games. Also, I found the quality of education lacking at tech schools. I would skip class, get A's on tests and assignments, but get B's overall because attendance was worth 40% of your grade. This meant, that you could get a 60% on everything, and only do slightly worse than someone who showed up half the time but knew what they were doing. Also, it meant that you could show up and pass, basically. Their excuse is that they were training you for working in the real world. But from what I've seen, this is BS. Money is a much better factor in getting somebody to show up to work on time. And the games industry is much more lax on hours. They are much more about what you can do, not how you do it. University did not teach me much about games, BUT, it gave me broad skills towards problem solving, analysis, and ability to learn new things. I feel that these skills are ESSENTIAL when doing professional game development. When I first came to the industry, I had some good homemade demos under my belt, PC and GBA stuff, but I quickly learned how much of a n00b I really was. I am challenged and learning every day. And I feel my university education brought me to that. Believe it or not, I believe that the non-CS courses, such as music, art, history, and language, developed those skills much better than my CS courses. I think that if you have to learn to do well in the things you are not good at, you become that much better in doing the things you ARE good at. I hope that made sense. I hope this helps. The most I can say, is that the industry is much more about what you can do. Don't expect a degree to give you smooth sailing. Breaking into the industry is a mixture of hard work and luck. If you want to make games, make games. Whether it be making mods, programming homebrew on the PC or console (Dreamcast and GBA), etc. Good demos speak wonders. And get involved. Join the IGDA, volunteer at the GDC, stay active on boards. We've all been there, so when one of us actually makes it, most of the time, we want to bring our friends along too. Good luck man, and I hope to be seeing you on the other side someday.
Quote:[Edited by - Daerax on January 13, 2006 10:07:19 AM]
Original post by Ikana As someone who is about to get a degree from a tech school, I strongly recommend that you take the university approach. There are a number of problems that I've had with the tech school that I am attending. The credits are, in my experiences, completely non transferrable to non tech colleges. The overall quality of education is poor. I had never considered the possibility that the class book and final exam could directly contradict each other on several questions. The books contained innumerable errors, (mostly factual) very poor indexes, and blocks of text written in a bizarre and irrelevant style. Our English book was called Carry On Writing. What does that even mean? I certainly never read it. All of this combined to make earning good grades an exercise of searching the books so you can figure out which particular wrong answer would earn you points on the test. The grading system quickly devolves into a matter of who wants an A so bad that they'll read those books for hours and hours to do well on the tests. But even if you aren't, it's ridiculously easy to get good grades at this school anyway. The person with the worst grades in my class has a 3.0. You can have a 4.0, though, if you're willing to put a lot of time into learning things that aren't even true. Obviously the teachers are very important. I'd say about half of the teachers I've had are very good, and half of them are very bad. The very good ones deserve mention, they shared career experiences and supplemented the lectures with their own thoughts, and I've learned good things from them. The ones that are bad though, are very much so. One of them would start casual conversation during the final exams, several of them condoned and participated in pornographic discussions in the classroom, sometimes they just read the book for hours because they have no clue what they are talking about, and during the lab portion of the class they would disappear for hours. Like I said, there are very good teachers and very bad. Not a lot of middle ground. The equipment was often in poor condition and the network was often down. I did learn some things, but I suspect that everything that I've learned there could be compressed into a month or so of quality studying. One thing that really deserves compliment is career services. I've had very good experiences with them and I've learned a lot. They did an excellent job preparing us for things like interviewing and things like that. I suspect that the purpose of these schools is to train people who are already working adults for a different career. I think that the whole system is designed to churn out drone workers that have no desire or curiosity to really learn something. And at this it comes close to succeeding, if not for the very bad half of the teachers and the books. I would certainly not recommend this route for learning game development. If they can't teach simpler things, I have no idea how they would be able to teach game development. I doubt you'd learn much, and if I were hiring for a game company, I wouldn't hire anyone that has a game development degree from a tech school unless they are just incredibly talented, but perhaps that opinion is uninformed. Well, while I'm at it, here's another uninformed opinion: I think that you should pursue something like computer science or art instead of a game development degree. You're probably going to need to learn a lot of things that aren't game development specific anyway, things like math, algorithms and data structures if you are a programmer. I think that these game development courses are becoming popular because a lot of people want to make games but they are unwilling to do a lot of work for it. They want to do the bear minimum. Maybe that's not true at the dedicated game development schools, I don't know. And besides that, if you get a more general degree at a university, you can do a lot more with it. What happens if you find out that you don't want to make games for a living after all? A completely different type of software company probably wont take a game development degree as seriously as, say, a computer science degree, especially if the game development degree is from a tech school.
