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The Philadelphia Project

Started by Crispy Jul 3, 2005 at 8:01 PM 15 replies 3.7k views

Original Post

Jul 3, 2005 at 8:01 PM

As it appeared, pretty much all of my friends and relatives left town over the weekend, leaving me home alone with a bad case of cold in the middle of the summer. So I waged war on boredom and listed things in my head I'd want to do whilst not not having much to do in the first place. I'm generally a social animal, so I have trouble finding anything to captivate myself with unless there's some interaction with other people. Caution: the following list has got very little to do with the actual topic - read at your own peril. So I: 1) read a book - got bored 2) played ET - got bored 3) thought I'd mess around on GD - khm 4) watched Discovery Channel, more precisely each and every outdated programme on the Sun and the Solar System, then all of the shows on dinosaurs and animals that probably never existed, but are made shows of because... well we do need to know how White Top, the velociraptor's, life went after his pack was killed by another pack of raptors. And - for God's sake - we MUST increase funding for the people who research these things! I also learnt that the most expensive brand of coffee costs £300/kilo and is made of semi-digested beans harvested from cat's excrement. This is true true true. Laughed out loud at the TV set. Then got bored. 5) did sports and photography - got bored 6) went back to my modular synth code - got bored 7) made some music, which turned out funny - got bored 8) read up on conspiracy theories and the Philadelphia Project. As it appears, people are stupid. How did I not see that coming... At least it wasn't that boring. Alright - to the topic! On my quest to shed some light on the Philadelphia Project, I stumbled on the following site: www.abovetopsecret.com. Taking the nature of the site with a grain of salt, I read through some of the topics in some of the forums there. I was particularly fascinated by a discussion on optical invisibility. And I quote the OP there:

Quote:
Then i researched about the eye and i thought right about the eye, the thing i was doubting was... Does the eye send out a "wave" then it comes back with the thing it sees... Kinda like dolphins. Or is it the light that reflects the object into the eye, it is. Okay so no light = you can't see anything... (Duh! )

Continuing my quest for the PD (aka Project Rainbow), I read this piece of writing (read this link - it's not long - if you do not know what the Philadelphia Project is (supposedly) about), which struck me with its objectivity. Reading some of the commentary again caused my faith in the human race to waver, until I found my way to Al Bielek's webpage. Al Bielek, according to this webpage, was a participant in the project. After reading some of the stuff on the web page, including this page on Dr. James Corum, I am a bit uncertain about (the validity of) my own skepticism. I could have written the whole deal off to a pure conspiracy before, but that web page looks genuinely legit. Furthermore, I am generally one of those people who oozes rational, although not always emotional, skepticism - I can rationalize over things in a pretty reliable manner without being affected by it. However - as far as large "conspiracies" or myths go, I tend to presume somekind of a true background to have given birth to the conspiracy or the myth in the first place. Indeed, Ancient Greeks did a splendid job with their myths in exhibiting how radically incest, orgies, nectar (which was nothing less than very strong booze) and hallucination-inducing drugs can help a human mind to alter reality; however - it is unlikely that someone just made up each and every (sustaining) myth, especially those concerning the contemprary government(s), which also includes Roswell. Whether degaussing or simply the christening of a new ship, I'm willing to accept that the Philadelphia Project was an event that did take place. I am, however, not willing to believe anything "supernatural" happened there without further proof. What I'd like to hear about is other's accounts on these boards - I trust I've had enough of an overdose of conspiracy theories and sci-fi as it is. For further links on the Philadelphia Project, see this page, for futher links on USS Eldridge (the ship supposedly at the center of interest in the project) see this page.

Trapper Zoid

Jul 3, 2005 at 8:28 PM

I very much doubt that anyone had the technology to make a destroyer disappear and warp through space/time in the middle of World War II; we don't have anything like that now. From what I've read in the Skeptics Dicitonary about the Philadelphia Experiment ( handy link here ), the likely cause of the rumours was due to the following:

- the navy were planning an experiment to make the destroyer invisible to magnetic torpedoes , and some people who overheard navy personnel talking misunderstood what they discussing
- the Eldridge destroyer then sailed out of the port of Philadelphia for a day to Nolfolk, then sailed back, which gave it the impression of 'disappering'.

So I'm quite sure that the navy weren't doing any weird sci-fi experiments. If they did, and the ship really did disappear, surely we'd see the results of the research in the design and application of today's weaponry and ships, and I can't see any invisible destroyers around today (waiting for the obvious pun in response....)

Crispy

Jul 3, 2005 at 8:39 PM

Here's the problem: the Navy denies that the Eldridge was ever in Norfolk or Philadelphia at the specified times. They wouldn't have much reason to deny that, even if the experiment was top secret.

Trapper Zoid

Jul 3, 2005 at 9:00 PM

Even if the Navy doesn't acknowledge the presence of the Eldridge in either port at those times, I'm sure there's a simpler explanation other than the Navy conducting teleportation or invisibility projects.

My scepticism derives (as I stated in my earlier post) from the fact that if the Navy in World War II really did have a successful experiment in teleportation or invsibility in the 1940s, then even if there were some nasty side effects they would have continued the experiments. With the current rate of technological progression, I'd wager they'd have a working system at least by the fifties, and we'd have seen invisible teleporting warships and tanks in active deployment in the Vietnam war. Heck, we'd probably have the U.S. winning the Cold War against the U.S.S.R in the sixties with that kind of technology! There's just no way the U.S. armed forces would walk away from such a military advantage.

JohnBolton

Jul 3, 2005 at 9:42 PM

I agree with Trapper Zoid. If the U.S. had the technology to teleport a destroyer or make it invisible, how could nothing have come of it after 60 years?

Also, the Navy did camoflauge their ships. Maybe that is what was meant by "invisible".

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Here's the problem: the Navy denies that the Eldridge was ever in Norfolk or Philadelphia ...

That's not evidence of anything. Clinton denied having sex with Monica Lewinsky. Does that mean that she was invisible or teleported in and out of the White House? Bush lied about WMD in Iraq. Does that mean that the WMD were teleported away or are invisible?

boolean

Jul 3, 2005 at 10:36 PM

Quote:
Original post by Trapper Zoid
I very much doubt that anyone had the technology to make a destroyer disappear and warp through space/time in the middle of World War II; we don't have anything like that now. From what I've read in the Skeptics Dicitonary about the Philadelphia Experiment ( handy link here ), the likely cause of the rumours was due to the following:

- the navy were planning an experiment to make the destroyer invisible to magnetic torpedoes , and some people who overheard navy personnel talking misunderstood what they discussing
- the Eldridge destroyer then sailed out of the port of Philadelphia for a day to Nolfolk, then sailed back, which gave it the impression of 'disappering'.

So I'm quite sure that the navy weren't doing any weird sci-fi experiments. If they did, and the ship really did disappear, surely we'd see the results of the research in the design and application of today's weaponry and ships, and I can't see any invisible destroyers around today (waiting for the obvious pun in response....)

You beat me to it. I love that site ^_^

Along with the fake moon landing theory and the Bermuda Triangle, this is probably my favourite topic, just because it is such a simple explanation. As you mentioned, they were planning an experiment to make the destroyer invisible to magnetic torpedoes, and some people who overheard navy personnel talking misunderstood what they discussing.

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Vallee
They sent the crew ashore and they wrapped the vessel in big cables, then they sent high voltages through these cables to scramble the ship's magnetic signature. This operation involved contract workers, and of course there were also merchant ships around, so civilian sailors could well have heard Navy personnel saying something like, "they're going to make us invisible," meaning undetectable by magnetic torpedoes.

Also, Morris K. Jessup was the main driving force behind the Philadelphia Project story, which was a hoax started by Carl Allen (a.k.a. Carlos Miguel Allende).

Quote:
Vallee
The Eldridge had already left at 11 p.m. Someone looking at the harbor that night might have noticed that the Eldridge wasn't there any more and it did appear in Norfolk. It was back in Philadelphia harbor the next morning, which seems like an impossible feat: if you look at the map you'll see that merchant ships would have taken two days to make the trip. They would have required pilots to go around the submarine nets, the mines and so on at the harbor entrances to the Atlantic. But the Navy used a special inland channel, the Chesapeake-Delaware Canal, that bypassed all that. We made the trip in about six hours".

Skeptics Dictionary does a much better job of explaining it.

Stonicus

Jul 3, 2005 at 11:58 PM

Crying conspiracy theory is commonplace, and frequently thought of as the stuff of fruit cakes and nut jobs. But this doesn't mean they don't happen. In fact, it's almost comical how many conspiracy theories exist. Makes me believe at least a few of em have to be true.

One thing we should all be aware of now, is that the military is never going to be 100% forthcoming with information. Even if Project Rainbow was just for degaussing, they would never tell us all of what happened. It's like their policy. They always wanna keep you guessing, so your never quite sure what they have. I'm sure some were created on purpose by the military as a form of disinformation, to make our enemies wonder, "damn, do they really have that?"

And as far as supreme military power because we have invisible destroyers, that means nothing for ground based warfare. A power such as that would need to kept secret. If you go around and 50 enemy boats are blown up just out of the blue, they'll know something is up. The military would probably never use that for direct combat, but for stealth and surveillance. In the long run, it would provide more usefulness.

Stonicus

Jul 3, 2005 at 11:59 PM

The movie Philadelphia Project was cool. I liked the quandry the captain was in at the end, should he stop Pearl Harbor or not? (I think it was Pearl Harbor wasn't it?) In the end, I liked his rationale: "I swore to defend the U.S., doesn't matter what year it is" (paraphrase).

Trapper Zoid

Jul 4, 2005 at 12:34 AM

Quote:
Original post by Stonicus
Crying conspiracy theory is commonplace, and frequently thought of as the stuff of fruit cakes and nut jobs. But this doesn't mean they don't happen. In fact, it's almost comical how many conspiracy theories exist. Makes me believe at least a few of em have to be true.

Heh, with me, I think the comically large number of conspiracy theories just represents the illogical gullibility (is that a word?) that is the base characteristic of the human race. Stuff like astrology just seals this for me.

Quote:

One thing we should all be aware of now, is that the military is never going to be 100% forthcoming with information. Even if Project Rainbow was just for degaussing, they would never tell us all of what happened. It's like their policy. They always wanna keep you guessing, so your never quite sure what they have. I'm sure some were created on purpose by the military as a form of disinformation, to make our enemies wonder, "damn, do they really have that?"

I'm certain that the military does do this kind of disinformation in order to keep people guessing, but that doesn't mean they are trying to fool everyone all the time. Just because something is kept secret doesn't mean it has to involve weird sci-fi experiments or aliens or far-fetched stuff like that.

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And as far as supreme military power because we have invisible destroyers, that means nothing for ground based warfare. A power such as that would need to kept secret. If you go around and 50 enemy boats are blown up just out of the blue, they'll know something is up. The military would probably never use that for direct combat, but for stealth and surveillance. In the long run, it would provide more usefulness.

Kept secret for sixty years? Maybe the U.S. has secretive bureaucracy down to perfection, but over here in the land of Oz, given the insane amounts of leaks and general incompetence present in every form of government I've seen I wouldn't trust any government department, even our armed forces, to keep something as ground-breaking as this secret for that long. Some-one is bound to leak conclusive proof sooner or later.

Besides, in sixty years the advancements to this technology the U.S. would have invisible ships, tanks and planes. And I'm sure that in war they wouldd be used, and used often. Do you think the armed forces would willingly put their troops at risk with a protracted visible battle if they had the option of total stealth, just to protect the technology? The U.S. could win wars within days with very small or no loss of life (well, at least on their side!). Plus the pscycological use of this would be immense; if an army was facing a enemy that was known to be invisible, their morale would plummet.

Stonicus

Jul 4, 2005 at 10:43 AM

Quote:
Original post by Trapper Zoid
Do you think the armed forces would willingly put their troops at risk with a protracted visible battle if they had the option of total stealth, just to protect the technology?

Hell yes I believe they would do that. (at least the U.S. armed forces)

Trapper Zoid

Jul 4, 2005 at 6:52 PM

Quote:
Original post by Stonicus
Quote:
Original post by Trapper Zoid
Do you think the armed forces would willingly put their troops at risk with a protracted visible battle if they had the option of total stealth, just to protect the technology?

Hell yes I believe they would do that. (at least the U.S. armed forces)

Point taken ;)

(Although I'm still not sure if you're winding me up about this ;) I don't think the U.S. would not use something like this more directly and obviously in sixty years of combat if they truly had mastered the technology.)

I Like Bread

Jul 4, 2005 at 7:01 PM

The only thing I remember about the Philadelphia project (I had heard a lot about it years ago, seeing as how I'm from there) is that the experiment failed in a sense-- when the ship arrived at its destination, seamen were fused to the hull.

And it's pretty useless to rationalize that it couldn't be possible because "we don't even have that kind of technology now"... seeing as how we live in a age where Knowledge Is Power and no one wants to share.

The Alchemist

Jul 4, 2005 at 7:22 PM

conspiracy theories are like the quantum suicide of society, if you wrong you will never know, and if you right you gonna end dying

Trapper Zoid

Jul 4, 2005 at 7:23 PM

Hey, I Like Bread, I'm aiming to be an academic and a teacher, I get my power by sharing my knowledge!

But seriously, if it was true that the U.S. Navy could teleport a destroyer from one bay to another in World War II with the only side effect being crewmen fused to the hull, they would consider that to be a technological success. With sixty years of research and development, they would either fix the crewman-fusing problem, or find another use for the technology. Imagine what the Cold War would have been like if instead of launching nukes the armed forces could just teleport them all to their destinations instaneously. There is no way the U.S. would have abandoned this project if they had a working prototype. Or not used the technology to their immense advantage over the last six decades.

Plasmadog

Jul 5, 2005 at 12:30 AM

Threads like this are a perfect example of what keeps these stories going for so long. Everyone so far has been arguing in terms of how likely it is that the "incident" happened, based on what may or may not be meant by official denials, or why it hasn't resulted in anything, or what might have started the rumour, and so on. All of which has been pure speculation.
For crying out loud people, the "scientific" explanation that was linked to in the first post is utter crap. Until someone comes up with a plausible explanation of how it might be physically possible to vanish a ship, the likelyhood that it happened should be considered zero, and arguing about that other stuff is a complete waste of time.

The Alchemist

Jul 5, 2005 at 3:18 AM

btw, who say that they arent using this technology if they have it?

you seriously have some inside info that we dont since i have no idea if any of those fancier war vehicles of US army cant teleport or any other weird fancy stuff

such technologies are some sort of white elepant, in the moment that US start openly using it, everyone else will come up with it as well and even faster than US itself since they have a technology years ahead from when US research was done and the fact that they know its possible :)

Jul 5, 2005 at 4:06 AM

The story is a hoax however us army has a light reflecting combat vest developed that make the soldier invisible or blends him into his surroundings. They showed it while back on discovery or learning channel or some such. It's like placing mirror in front of a soldier so that it reflects back his surroundings. Doesn't make his body invisible ofcourse. Ufos, bermuda, etc. are all hoaxes or children stories :) Folks make a killing from selling books.

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