Getting your game published as an indie

i beleive activision has an indie/budget game section, forgot the title of it, but look into that. also you may want to look at an indie game publisher like www.garagegames.com

also, sorry if this sounds harsh but:

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I have a great game that is an FPS, but it would never compete with Unreal or any of the other big guys.

if it can't compete with those, its unlikely you'll get a publishing deal with anyone but an indie publisher.

That is true. I am thinking of trying to get some talented 3d modelers after I finish programming the game engine and releasing a demo or some new screenshots. I did not know that activision had anything for indies, so thank you for telling me about it. I really do not think that any indie can compete with Unreal or any of the big guys as it is right now, they have hundreds of people working with next-gen everything.

You could always self publish. Retailers arn't going to say no to a money maker, thats all they're really concerned about. If it's not crap, or as contreversal as GTA then you should be able to get it to shelves. I plan on self publishing my game when it's done. Although you need working capital, you get all the profit, no middle men. Here are some links to some publishing equipment that you might be interested in.

www.veritysystems.com
www.cddimensions.com

Don't forget about having to ship it across the country to reail distribution centers though. You don't want thousands of copies just sitting around not making you money.

Depending on what type of game you are making there are several options. Firstly, youll want to put together a nice demo of the game with screenshots and info about it and send it out to as many publishers as you can find. Theres a good template for this Here

If your game is a casual, puzzle type game i would suggest submitting it to portals like Realarcade. They will sell the game for you and already have a large amount of customers and advertising of which you dont need to do yourself. They will however take a cut of the sales.

If your game is directed to a more niche userbase the best bet is to probably publish it yourself. As long as you arent hoping to live off the sales this option isnt really that bad. Just set up a website for the game and use a company like ShareIt to deal with the credit card authentication. Shareit also submit your game to several download sites like Download.com for you.

A service like VGSmart might be useful if you are publishing it yourself also, check them out.

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I would like to know when you should present your work to the publisher and what to tell them.

You present to a publisher when your game is finished and you tell them what makes your game better than similar games out there.

This may be the link that BorisTSR was talking about ActivisionValue

yeah thats it, thanks evelyn ;)

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Original post by M-Works I am really having difficulty with trying to get games published as an indie game developer. I am having many obstacles. I would like to know when you should present your work to the publisher and what to tell them. I have a great game that is an FPS, but it would never compete with Unreal or any of the other big guys. What should I do about that?

Is the game complete?

The game I am currently producing is not completed. I am basicly done with the game engine, and the levels look real right now. The company that I am running is all online right now, so we are looking to get stationed somewhere, and we are looking for people to help with the graphics rendering and 3d modeling/animation. It looks as though I can get a working demo with one full mission (20 levels), multiplayer, advanced AI, sound intergrated, and cutscenes within a month, and after that it is just a matter of making new levels and improving upon multiplayer and the graphics engine.

Sorry for the double post, but how would you sell your game to retailers without a publisher? I am just currious. Would you contact them via e-mail or by a paper written proposal? And how do you think would you be able to get a negotiation on marketing the game?

Also, how would I send a game to ESRB for it to be rated? Would I just send it to them with information about the game and expected audiences to buy, or would I have to contact them at a special e-mail address or something?

[Edited by - M-Works on September 26, 2005 3:02:00 PM]

IMO, if you want to appeal to a publisher, you should nail the market first -- who would buy it, casual gamers or hardcore gamers? Would members of any sort of gaming group buy the game? Publishers care more about sales than they do reputation or product quality, so if you were to research your market and present a sales figure (an estimated number of sales in a certain period of time, such as a year), I think it could increase your chances of acceptance. You should keep in mind that, when submitting to a publisher, your game is probably competing with 20-30 other games for that one acceptance letter. If you do your market research, it means publishers won't have to, and that would already put you above most of the other submissions.

1. You have admitted that your game won't compete with big budget triple A titles. Unfortunately if that is the case then the game will have to go through a budget publisher and they almost never fund development (some may pay a small guarantee on completion - most will only pay royalties). That means you have to fund the game to completion yourself or find external investment (as hard if not harder than getting publisher funding).

2. Getting your game into retail - This costs money. First you need to pay to have the game manufactured. Next you have to pay distributors to store and transport it and sales staff to contact the retailers and get them to order the game (or else you have to stop developing in order to make the sales calls yourself and process the orders whenever they come in. Next you have to pay the shops to stock your game (at least the large stores) - These retailers will expect you to pay tens of thousands of dollars in "marketing contributions". - this is money to pay for them to produce their brochures (which feature your game) and promotional materials.

Last, and by no means least, you have to have a marketing budget. Shops won't stock your game unless they think it will sell. It won't sell if no one knows about it. People will only know about it if you spend money on marketing so the retailers will only stock your game if you spend enough money on marketing.

3. The point about marketing only partially applies in your case because your game is a budget game. Publishers don't spend money marketing budget games. Instead they spend the money marketing the actual budget range (the label) as a whole. Sold Out, Explosive or Activisionvalue will do trade advertising to promote their brand and the retailers will often order a set of titles, rather than just one. This means the publishers marketing spend is spread across all the titles in their range. You don't have a range of games so your marketing spend would all count against the one title. You couldn't afford to compete with the publishers who have a range of games and your game would be lost in the noise.

Conclusion
If you had enough money to get your game into retail and do the necessary marketing then you could afford to spend that money making your game into a triple A title and selling it through a big publisher.

As a budget developer with limited resources you will need to put your finished game through a budget publisher.

Okay, about the triple A titles thing, that is no longer. The company has been working for weeks on redoing the engine, and we have some new people helping out with the graphics. The people and monsters are near realistic looking, and the objects and environments are photorealistic. We have gone from a small team of 12 to a still small but growing team of 24. We think we can now try to find a deal soon. About self publishing, we have just bought some cd replication and box printing materials. We think that we can do the publishing, but maybe we are mistaken. M-Works is also adding in a new feature to the game: multistorylines. We will have the player follow along with 5 different storys throughout the cource of the game. The game will also feature free play, arenas, and 8 person death match mutiplayer expantion packs. Our 6 modelers are working their butts off right now to make some new graphics. I think that this game can now compete. We are expecting to add 6 more people to the team, and we have raised an extra $10000 for the game's budget. We will be releasing screens, a site, and a demo soon enough. We have just updated the whole system, and we are now near completion of the 3d game engine. We are about 85% done, and we have 10 levels done out of the 100 needed. Once the engine and editor are finished, we will be completing levels within days. We are to have 100 maps instead of the original 20, and we are now adding custom arenas. The enemy AI in the game is more sophisticated than Doom 3's AI, and the enemies are realistic.

The player will be able to hack computers, scare enemies, cloak identities, hide, call for help, and complete levels in a non-linear fasion. I think that the game is now coming to the point where we can compete.

M-Works is this you M-Works Software Productions

Good luck with your publishing, I hope you make it. Just keep in mind that you need to have room to store all those replicated copies, and you need to have steady production so you can meet all your orders. If you think your game is going to sell a large amount of copies then you might want to get about 50+ CD burners going at a time. Are you printing sticker labels or are you doing inkjet printing? Inkjet will give you the professional look and will more likely get your game on the shelf.

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Original post by M-Works About self publishing, we have just bought some cd replication and box printing materials. We think that we can do the publishing, but maybe we are mistaken.

Duplication is the smallest of the publishing expenses. To sell those copies you need marketing and the usual marketing budget is 2 to 3 times as much as the development budget.

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Okay, about the triple A titles thing, that is no longer.

I'm worried about your project. AAA is alot more than pretty pictures and good AI. It's a comittment to making a solid game that works right the first and last time.

These quotes are what concerns me:

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It looks as though I can get a working demo with one full mission (20 levels), multiplayer, advanced AI, sound intergrated, and cutscenes within a month

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We have just updated the whole system, and we are now near completion of the 3d game engine. We are about 85% done

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Once the engine and editor are finished, we will be completing levels within days.

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We are to have 100 maps instead of the original 20

and

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The enemy AI in the game is more sophisticated than Doom 3's AI, and the enemies are realistic.

Beware the feature creep

This all sounds a might bit unrealistic and prone to collapse under the weight of the quest for AAA

You may be sabotaging you chances of even being "A" game if you keep gilding the lilly so to speak. Also, people that claim that in one month they can make a product better than however long it took Doom3...well...we have a name for people like that and to be nice, I'll merely call them "dreamers".

Be realistic about your goals and timeline...don't introduce features into the middle of the production...finish what you start, no matter how small it may seem. And don't put 30 people on a project if getting 10K USD is a major accomplishment...you won't be able to retain them and the legal implications of "royalty sharing" with 30 people will break the bank in legal fees either pre or post release.

well EDI did it. why not ask them?

Looking at your website I would suggest you arnt even 5% of the way towards a AAA title. 1 month to finish the game and you havnt got the engine finished yet or started the levels. Looks to me as if you have at least 3 years more work to do. So I really dont think you should be worrying about how you are going to sell it just now.

I doubt you could make a AAA product with Darkbasic, reading through your site is quite amusing, you have 7 members on your forum and say you need another moderator to control it. And then you say Rock Star Games are going to publish another one of your games, can we see that one?