An experiment in making multiplayer RPG's

I personally would like this, not because I want to develop a MMORPG per se, but because I'd undoubtedly learn a ton. I also offer my tried (and failed) attempts at programs up for example :D

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Original post by jwalsh So my question to you, good people of the "For Beginners" forum, is whether this is something you're interested in

I would be very interested in a workshop like this.

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Original post by jwalsh What features should the Mini MORPG contain?

Basic chatting capabilities, economics system and maybe battles?

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Original post by jwalsh how many users should it support?

Hmmm the only online game I play often is CSS so im not sure on the average users in a MMORPG.

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Original post by jwalsh what language should it be in?

My preffered language is c++, if the project is a 2D mmorpg then I think SDL would be a nice API to use for most concepts.

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what language should it be in?

Well, here I make my case for C#. It has an extremely elegant syntax, is very efficient, has a huge standard library, is consistant for everyone that installs it, has a great support machine backing it (Microsoft), is just as fast as C++, especially when compiled down into a native image, and has a great graphics library for beginners called XNA. Plus its easy to learn, and makes moving to C++ much easier in the future. How can you loose?

I would like this, simply because I've never gotten real in-depth in networking before, and learning it in deloping an actual game instead of some chat client would be fun. I could help out on teaching the the other stuff though, if we use C#, C++, or Python.

Great idea by the way, hopefully we'll see less posts about making MMO's, and more about things that are actually possible for beginners to make.

I would find it interesting to watch the progress, and see how it worked out - as well as to see what stumbling blocks were genuinely hit and which could be avoided with some planning. I wouldn't take part but would support it. I'll come back with a more useful post (i.e. one that actually addresses your other requests for feedback) tomorrow.

First: MMO = Mini Multiplayer online
Second: I'm leaning toward something more action and less RPG
Third: Please use a language other than C++. C#, Java, or anything language that's SDL compliant.
Fourth: A chat system.
Fifth: REAL good explanation on the networking code and behind the scenes that is going on

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Original post by jwalsh (Miniature Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game)

Sorry, someone had to do that, though some things should probably stay in the lounge...:D

Anyway, I wouldn't probably follow too closely as I've never been huge on MMORPGs, but I think it'd be a great way to alleviate all the MMORPG questions - all you'd have to do is link to this tutorial. You wouldn't even have to flame teh noobs, and who knows, maybe something would get accomplished, maybe not, but either way it would help. As for the specifics of the workshop, I'd say C++ and SDL are probably the most widely used language/API for the sort of beginner projects you mention. Plus, it might be a good resource for game dev-ing in general, you know?

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Original post by Alpha_ProgDes Fifth: REAL good explanation on the networking code and behind the scenes that is going on

I think that there is the challenge of such a tutorial. Do you focus on the MMO aspect(networking), or the RPG aspect(things typical of an RPG game, like quests)? Those are probably the two topics which deserve huge tutorials by themselves and will be incredibly hard to write a tutorial for, considering they are usually the parts that people don't have experience with.

I believe some workshop like this, building any game from the ground up, would be fantastic! You are a very brave man, jwalsh!

For your own sake, I would suggest doing a simple RPG to start off with for a variety of reasons. To begin with, it will satisfy the people who want the full blown game (with immense online play) while still catering to those who are just beginning. I believe it would be even cooler if you could modularize it so that the online portion could even be added on later. The only reason I say this is because, personally, I'd rather have the entire workshop focus on learning the actual game programming rather than the network requirements, which some of us (and don't hold me to this) might not be able to accomplish/maintain.

With that said, if you were able to break the game down into clean, concise, and logical portions to share each *insert time frame here*, the the final outcome could be very beneficial from all standpoints.

In terms of the logistics, as I said, I would do a bare bones RPG to start. Create the general focus and slowly work off of it, knocking off a certain criteria each step of the way. For one section, work on the "hero". For the next section, work on enemies. The list goes on. I'm sure you have already begun to think that over, however.

In terms of language, I think C++, or anything else with a broad range of references, would be suitable. Something that is portable is a definite plus, in my opinion.

By all means, make it happen, though! I would certainly stay tuned as it would be a great resource for many.

I think this sounds like a very ambitious idea for a workshop, but if it does get the go-ahead and those running it are prepared to stick it through to the end, then I can see it helping a great deal of developers. Probably more than just the beginners too, as an Online RPG would touch on so many aspects of game development that there would be something in there for everyone really.

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Original post by jwalsh What features should the Mini MORPG contain?

In all seriousness, as this would be a GDNet MMORPG ...it simply MUST contain either Hockey or the ability to marry The Hulk (or both). It just wouldn't be right if at least one of these wasn't in there [smile]

Good Luck,
ViLiO

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Original post by Alpha_ProgDes First: MMO = Mini Multiplayer online Second: I'm leaning toward something more action and less RPG Third: Please use a language other than C++. C#, Java, or anything language that's SDL compliant. Fourth: A chat system. Fifth: REAL good explanation on the networking code and behind the scenes that is going on

Why not C++?

C# is fine by me.. but Java, I shall smite with the heat of a thousand suns. My school teaches UCI and just about every engineering place I applied for internship asked about my C++ experience and said me knowing Java wasn't going to help me.


Networking has been explained VERY well. If you DO use networking, do something more complex like IOCP because there's not a lot of good sources for that. Simple sockets have been covered very well (I used to think the opposite, but I kept reading and learning).

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Original post by bschneid Quote: Original post by jwalsh (Miniature Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game) Sorry, someone had to do that, though some things should probably stay in the lounge...:D Anyway, I wouldn't probably follow too closely as I've never been huge on MMORPGs, but I think it'd be a great way to alleviate all the MMORPG questions - all you'd have to do is link to this tutorial. You wouldn't even have to flame teh noobs, and who knows, maybe something would get accomplished, maybe not, but either way it would help. As for the specifics of the workshop, I'd say C++ and SDL are probably the most widely used language/API for the sort of beginner projects you mention. Plus, it might be a good resource for game dev-ing in general, you know? EDIT: Quote: Original post by Alpha_ProgDes Fifth: REAL good explanation on the networking code and behind the scenes that is going on I think that there is the challenge of such a tutorial. Do you focus on the MMO aspect(networking), or the RPG aspect(things typical of an RPG game, like quests)? Those are probably the two topics which deserve huge tutorials by themselves and will be incredibly hard to write a tutorial for, considering they are usually the parts that people don't have experience with.

I believe the MMO part should be focused on more than the RPG. What makes this tutorial special and worth undertaking is not the RPG aspect but the MMO aspect. Which is why I suggest game that's more action based and a language and API more suited to the task like C#. It's put more focus on the MMO aspect of the workshop. More coding and less learning language. [smile]

I have no desire to make an MMORPG (even if the first M stands for miniature [smile]), but I do love seeing well run tutorials. I'd keep tabs on what you were doing just to see how you approach the subject as a tutor. Plus I don't know a lot about multiplayer network coding so I could always learn something new.

My main concern is that something as big a topic as a MORPG strikes me as being more suitable to an advanced tutorial rather than one for beginners. I think you'll have to decide what background knowledge you expect; are you aiming for total programming newbies or people with some programming experience?

Secondly I think you'll need to define down exactly what you expect people to get out of the tutorial - "by the end of this course, I expect you to now understand how to do X". If X is too general (i.e. "make a MMORPG") then the task will be too gargantuan to satisfy. If it's a bit more specific ("learn how to write a program where multiple players can interact in real-time") then I think it'll be much more achievable.

So you are trying to make something where people on this forum can work together to make a simple mmorpg? If so...Im not a very good artist on the computer but i am good at making small objects (Fruit,gold,small accessories)with 3D looks and shading.

Sounds like a good idea to me, even though I have no plans of ever making a (massive or mini) MMO.

Edit: Also, C++ is fine with me, as would be C#. Java, not so much.

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Original post by mmoWoWmkr So you are trying to make something where people on this forum can work together to make a simple mmorpg? If so...Im not a very good artist on the computer but i am good at making small objects (Fruit,gold,small accessories)with 3D looks and shading.

No, it would be a learning workshop, where we would teach beginners about the topics involved with the creation of a MiniMORPG.

This would be good, I would join.

personaly i think that the ammount of questions that are asked about mmos on this forum says that it has come time for a workshop like this.

as for your questions:

chat system, character management system, echonomics, in other words if your going to do it, you mine as well do it all =P.

it should be able to support up to a couple hundered uses.

as for the language.....i'm biased..........c++/opengl maybe and maybe with sdl window control.

i'd be interested in one as long as it at least skip everything about basic programming (language & it's feature being learnt aside)

i'd like C# for the language as it fits what begginers keep getting told in here (aka no C / C++ to start )

Sounds fun!

I would have simply assumed that you would do it with C++... especially after the C++ workshop. Anyway, I would recommend C++ (so I could do it) for the language. As far as features... chat is a must, some sort of battle (depending on what kind of game it is), but maybe not economy. Something else to consider is whether there will be NPCs. That would add a whole realm of AI to the skills you will need to teach. That is why I do not think economy is such a must; if you focus on PvP, then economy is not really needed (think Unreal Tournament online). But some kind of character/empire development would be essential.

I think use C++, and either SDL or 2D OpenGL (keep it cross-platform). Maybe a scripting language (Lua, Python)?? Amount of users? I have no idea.

Anyway, good luck if you decide to do this.