Hi, I'm attempting C++ at the moment. No I'm not trying to recruit people to do the job for me, and no I'm not going to say MMORPG...OK I said it then, but you get what I'm trying to say right? Anyway, one thing I've been working on (read: thinking and writing about) is a working combat system for non-tolkienesque fantasy RPGs/MMORPGS, in the case of the game I want to make - a sci-fi game. As we know that is inevitably going to involve guns rather than swords and shields and things like 'strength' don't really have a place in this kind of gameplay. So, my thought is why not have combat work traditionally in terms of calculation (player targets, player cycles 'auto attack', player hits 'specials', damage is calculated etc), but focus the game heavily on context sensitive cover? Say, you are at one end of a corridor, you press the 'context sensitive cover' key and your avatar immediately positions itself against the wall, 'peering' around the corner to fire? All the appropriate calculations continue in the background (obvously now the game is taking your cover into account), and the animations change slighty, but essentially the same thing is going on. Different cover would prompt different animations (ie. low cover would prompt your character to crouch behind it and shoot over the top) Cover could be encouraged by having being fired upon in open ground extremely dangerous giving bonuses to whoever is shooting at you. Essentially though, it's 90% aesthetic to accomplish something as simple as a to-hit penatly/bonus but as far as I'm aware it's not something that's ever been done in a 'live' RPG before. (heavily turn-based ones, I realise it has). So...does this idea have legs or what? :P It's only a small aspect of my concept for my sci-fi (mmo)rpg, but I just wanted to put this out here for discussion really as it's one of the parts that (I hope) make my concept a little different from what we've seen a zillion times before.

Science fiction combat would not necessarily be about guns. Aside from light sabers and energy shields, there might be the possibility of commanding one's personal nanobots to attack an enemy, attempting to hack an enemy's personal computer, psionics is always popular, alien characters might have various interesting biological abilities... Anyway it's fine if you want yours to be about guns, I just thought I'd point out that it wasn't the foregone conclusion that you assumed it was.

I was reffering to my own concept, which incidently does include psionics but the majority of the combat would be fought with guns, yes.

I think the idea definitely has legs, but I'm biased: I've been doing a lot of preliminary design work (conceptual gameplay mechanics) on a scifi-MMO that tries to go beyond Anarchy Online's "MMO guns act like MMO swords" play style. What you're describing is an interesting hybrid of elements: it keeps the simple combat style that allows for ease-of-programming on the MMO scale, but it also adds the environmental interaction piece, which a lot of MMO's are still lacking.

Suddenly your terrain isn't just there for show :)

I do see one problem in this (though I certainly haven't spent much time mulling it over). Where low-lying props would be easy enough to flag as "low crouch" kinds of cover, you might run into a huge pile of work integrating all the wall corners into the contextual cover system, as any corner of any hallway (or outside) would need that contextual flag so your character could peer around it.

This would be on a smaller scale and much more manageable in a singleplayer game, of course. A lot of them have taken the corners into account, actually. Every Tenchu title, all the Splinter Cell games, and so on.

In the online arena, Star Wars Galaxies took some of this into play: kneeling and prone positions affected your hit/to hit chances, with bonuses and penalties applied dependent on the aggressor/target relationship.

While your ideas certainly have merit, a future-fantasy RPG with combat begs the question: how often does one survive a firefight?

Consider the weapons used in future settings: laser pistols/rifles, vaporizing guns, nuke weapons, etc. Compared to their typical medieval counterparts (bows, crossbows, or the myriad of melee weapons players typically stick with), there is a huge damage-gap. If my futuristic mercenary is not grazing people when shooting them with his laser pistol, I expect his targets to be on the ground, cursing the vaporization of various extremities.

Given this, you can do a number of things to counter-balance the above question:
1) weaken weapons, so that it takes 5-20 direct hits to kill a target
2) introduce various types of armor, thus nullifying the effect of the weapons
3) make combat significantly rarer, and "count more" in terms of how serious battles are

Maybe it's just me, but #3 sounds like the best way to go.

Best of luck!

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Original post by BCullis I think the idea definitely has legs, but I'm biased: I've been doing a lot of preliminary design work (conceptual gameplay mechanics) on a scifi-MMO that tries to go beyond Anarchy Online's "MMO guns act like MMO swords" play style. What you're describing is an interesting hybrid of elements: it keeps the simple combat style that allows for ease-of-programming on the MMO scale, but it also adds the environmental interaction piece, which a lot of MMO's are still lacking. Suddenly your terrain isn't just there for show :) I do see one problem in this (though I certainly haven't spent much time mulling it over). Where low-lying props would be easy enough to flag as "low crouch" kinds of cover, you might run into a huge pile of work integrating all the wall corners into the contextual cover system, as any corner of any hallway (or outside) would need that contextual flag so your character could peer around it. This would be on a smaller scale and much more manageable in a singleplayer game, of course. A lot of them have taken the corners into account, actually. Every Tenchu title, all the Splinter Cell games, and so on. In the online arena, Star Wars Galaxies took some of this into play: kneeling and prone positions affected your hit/to hit chances, with bonuses and penalties applied dependent on the aggressor/target relationship.

Yeah I'd given some thought to the prospect of having to add 'cover elements' to just about everything, but - and I'm no modeller - wouldn't it be a lot less daunting than we think?

Surely you'd be adding a value to certain models or pieces of a model, and the player's avatar would only have a few cover 'poses' that would apply to several different pieces of cover.

Like: 1 anim for crouch for low cover, 1 for corner(left) 1 for corner (right)...and um..I can't really think of any more but I'm sure there must be! :D

But regarldess, wouldn't you be applying values to the models themselves, which would probably be retextured and reused a million different ways throughout the game anyway? I suppose you could have some more dynamic stuff though, like vehicles that double as cover like tanks or something.

I could see it becoming a problem with curved surfaces though. What on earth would your avatar look like trying to use the outside on an igloo as cover? :P

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Original post by DarkHorizon While your ideas certainly have merit, a future-fantasy RPG with combat begs the question: how often does one survive a firefight? Consider the weapons used in future settings: laser pistols/rifles, vaporizing guns, nuke weapons, etc. Compared to their typical medieval counterparts (bows, crossbows, or the myriad of melee weapons players typically stick with), there is a huge damage-gap. If my futuristic mercenary is not grazing people when shooting them with his laser pistol, I expect his targets to be on the ground, cursing the vaporization of various extremities. Given this, you can do a number of things to counter-balance the above question: 1) weaken weapons, so that it takes 5-20 direct hits to kill a target 2) introduce various types of armor, thus nullifying the effect of the weapons 3) make combat significantly rarer, and "count more" in terms of how serious battles are Maybe it's just me, but #3 sounds like the best way to go. Best of luck!

I suppose it would depend on the projectile issued from the weapon. For example, personally I'd like to see a mixture of energy-based weapons and more traditional bullet-firing guns, as well as explosives. Each having good/bad points over the other. For example, energy-based guns could completely negate armour, but perhaps are not so good against energy-shielding? And vice-versa: Bullet-firing weapons might not penetrate armour too well, but they can completetly bypass shields.

Perhaps even instead of the traditional 'health bar' you could have a bar that goes down over time, regardless, once combat begins, representing your chance of avoiding a fatal blow, and ducking into cover slows that bar down.

Might make things a bit more tense :D

I think that futuristic weapons and complementary armor would be necessary for any good SF game. I don't know how you envision combat happening, but I think that making it a turn based tactics minigame would be a good way to go. Heavy armor increases protection but reduces mobility. Cover is available, and taking the time to aim improves damage. Moving characters are harder to hit and don't shoot as well.

I think that one element that would go far is the initiative concept. Slowest characters plan their moves first, and the moves are shown so that quicker characters can react to them. Then everything happens all at once.