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How to start... everything.

Started by yoyohobo665 May 31, 2007 at 4:12 AM 10 replies 1.5k views

Original Post

May 31, 2007 at 4:12 AM

first of all... im very sorry if theres already been a googolplex^2 of posts with these same questions. well anyway, of course, i want to make games. ive been planning on it for quite a while now, i think since freshman year (i just finished junior year), and now im starting to realize that high school is almost over. i want to make games but not for some big company like EA or bethesda or something, i have a small team ready and we're gonna make our own company :) and make INDY GAMES (best kind) WOO. but, i believe to do this we need to know how to program etc. (duh). so here are some of my first comments and questions.. 1. I hear stuff on tv about degrees in "game programing" or whatever. would it be better to get one of those rather than one in computer science? 2. if not, what are some very nice colleges that offer a degree in cs? i want to major in that. 2(1/2). also i want to minor in uhh digital graphics (if thats the right name for it) is there a good college for that? specifically learning 3ds max and photoshop. or would i just have to take special courses for those. 2(2/3). is there a college that has the above 2 question's topics combined? :) 3. Where did some of you guys learn to make games? did you go to college or just read books and stuff? 4. one of my "team mates" and i are going to be doing the scripting. of course all i hear is cPlusPlus is the best language right now for game programming. so im sure that would be the best to learn. my question is would it be better to learn c first? then cPlusPlus. are there any recommendations you guys may have for a better language? 5.lets say i stick with cPlusPlus, and for the visual part of it, i know of the whole battle between direct3d and opengl. or at least i knew of the battle a year ago. is there finally one that is for sure better than the other? 6. i am also to do the graphic parts of the games (3d, textures, etc.) i work with 3ds max 7 and am actually pretty good with it. i mod some games when im bored and have come across something amazing called normal maps ooooooo. i hear these are way better than the regular grayscale bumpmaps (true?) and was wondering if they work with opengl cuz i think theyre only for direct3d. if so is there an equivalent for opengl? well i think thats it for now.. ill post again if i can think of other questions.. so hopefully no one gets mad at me for posting this, i always look in forums (this is my VERY FIRST POST EVER) and see people ask "stupid" questions and everyone... kills them... bye (ps the plus signs werent working).. weird

Zanshibumi

May 31, 2007 at 4:19 AM

Quote:
Original post by yoyohobo665
(ps the plus signs werent working).. weird

Only in preview. Edit, put the ++ and it should work.

TheyDontCallMeMatt

May 31, 2007 at 4:35 AM

If you have a team of people, then it's best for certain people to specialize in certain tasks.

Companies list what they are looking for in the design of a project, and usually it's the same as another company's.

Say you need :
Programmers
Story Writers
Graphics Designers
Tool Designers
etc..

Well with these certain jobs, certain people can focus on them and give other people time to focus on their areas that they are best suited for.

As for suggestions on schooling.. Learn as much as you can, use it as much as you can. Don't rely on a class to teach you everything you think you want to know, C++ is the favored language for game designers, learn it. DirectX is an API for windows on graphics, sound, multiplayer, if you want to learn that. OpenGL is multiplatform graphics, learn that. My advice, get books that interest you, learn the material, and try to create games, on the side use college for learning extra stuff and doing extra projects.

I think game design schools would focus totally on game design, and skip areas of the computer which are unimportant.. while computer science courses focus on the computer and theory behind them. So if you want to devote 100% of yourself to games, get game and simulation programming classes, or if you want to know about computers as a whole do computer science...

SimonForsman

May 31, 2007 at 4:40 AM

1) Personally i would recomend getting a CS degree as its far more versatile.

3) Books and Tutorials (Asphyxias VGA tutorial among others) (I was 12 when i completed my first game so the technology used was a bit different;))

4) Warning, this part is heaviliy based on personal opinions.
Most languages are better than C++ for most tasks. (There are a few exceptions though), C++ however is good enough in most cases and has been in use for a very long time. (and it also interfaces well with old C code) , thus the amount of existing code and knowledge is its main advantage.

5) -slightly long answer, possibly biased-

it depends on the platform really. on Windows Vista there really is no difference in features between Direct3D and OpenGL, on XP and older OpenGL has a slight advantage if your users have modern hardware (GeForce8xxx , Radeon HD29xx etc) but the size of that userbase is so tiny that it hardly matters.

On Linux and MacOSX there really is no option as D3D isn't avaliable.

However DirectX (as a whole) is alot more than just a graphics API and can do alot for you that you would have to do yourself with OpenGL. (or do with another API or third party library).

Personally i use OpenGL most of the time since it has far better platform support.

6) Ofcourse there is :) http://www.3dkingdoms.com/tutorial.htm (i havn't read that one but the there are plenty of others aswell, just google:))

normalmaps are slightly better than bumpmaps in most situations, a bumpmap only contains a single-axis height offset, while a normal map uses 3 axis and is thus able to contain far more detailed information about the surface)

yoyohobo665

May 31, 2007 at 3:14 PM

thanks for the replies :)

when it comes down to the computer science vs game programming degrees, i understand that game programming would just skip some of the stuff cs would go over, but would the cs course skip anything that the game programming course goes over? (when it comes to programming)

and i guess the battle is still the same x.x. would it be a waste of time to learn both opengl and direct 3d? could i use other parts of directx (not direct 3d) and opengl in a program?

eh i think thats it for now, thanks again you guysss :)

pinacolada

May 31, 2007 at 6:24 PM

Quote:
Original post by yoyohobo665

when it comes down to the computer science vs game programming degrees, i understand that game programming would just skip some of the stuff cs would go over, but would the cs course skip anything that the game programming course goes over? (when it comes to programming)

Yeah, a lot. The difference is, the CS degrees skip the stuff that will probably be outdated in 5 years, and instead give you a knowledge of theory that will last your whole life.

The "game degrees" are all about getting you a job as soon as you graduate. After 5 or 10 years, half of the stuff you learn from your "game degree" will be useless.

Of course, working at a job is educational too :)

instinKt

May 31, 2007 at 6:43 PM

A note about what language to learn...

Previously I would have said learn C or C++ but recently my views have changed due to several good points being thrown around here all the time.

If you don't have much previous programming experience, specifically to do with memory management etc. then learn C# and get a feel for the syntax which is very similar to C++ but it takes care of all the memory management issues for you.

Once you have a handle on that, then you can delve into the dark depths of C++ where you're left on your own to blow your foot off. ;)

As for the course, choose CS. As someone has said, it's more versatile and will give you more options when you complete it. Games programming you can learn on the side using books, the internet and if you're lucky there might even be some kind of club/social group/etc. that meet regularly in your area.

caldiar

Jun 1, 2007 at 1:53 AM

I, like everyone else so far, definately suggest going for the CS degree over the Game Design/Programming/etc... Degree. Taking the Game degree over CS in my opinion is like starting at Point B and making your way towards Point A. CS will open the doors to a huge assortment of other jobs if you ever get bored of making games (or if it just doesn't work out for you).

coderx75

Jun 1, 2007 at 2:13 AM

Get a CS degree. Prove your metal. Then, if you really want to be involved in computer games, study them and/or go for a game "degree".

But if you really want to be in games, write games. Can you somehow not write games unless you get a piece of paper that allows you? Just write a game. You've got a team of people. Get started. Games don't get written because someone else awarded you a degree to do so. They get written because someone decided to make it happen. Once you've taken the plunge, then decide if it's really what you want to do.

If you want to write games, write games. Best of luck =)

yoyohobo665

Jun 1, 2007 at 2:29 AM

dude you live in san antonio, that means youre like 2 miles from me.

but anyway, you guys have pretty much convinced me to go for computer science :) thank you all. and yeah i guess i need to start reading books for c, then c++. i have 2, and i also have 2 for opengl. and no one ever answered if it would be a waste of time to learn both opengl and directx :(. but im pretty sure you guys will say itll be better to. or not i may be wrong. but anywayyy, what would you say are some of the best books i could start out with? oh yeah.. what are some good colleges??

you guys rockkkkxxkxkx

shadowisadog

Jun 1, 2007 at 1:13 PM

For what you are aiming to do, I do not recommend learning C before C++. Learning C first will teach you C related habits and you will be tempted to take them over to C++.

Learn C++ and avoid doing funky C/C++ bastardizations. IE use cout over printf and use the string class over character arrays (when applicable).

In all honesty though there is no reason for you to even learn C++ right now. Starting with Python and PyGame or C# and XNA will get you results much quicker. You will learn more about basic programming techniques and you will get less frustrated.

It’s like trying to build a house as your first attempt at carpentry.. It’s possible but the results might not be too good.

coderx75

Jun 2, 2007 at 4:41 PM

Yep, I'm on the NE side of town by Nacadoches, so 2 miles sounds about right. =b

I've been using C# over the past couple of years for work related stuff but still use C++ for personal projects. I'm finding C# to be far better for most situations and I'm even considering dropping all my old C++ code and moving to C#. I wouldn't say not to start with C++ since it's really up to the individual (such as masochists).

Btw, if you don't mind the extra work, look into both OpenGL and DirectX and decide what you feel more comfortable with. I use DirectX since it encompasses much more than just graphics. As for one being better than the other, I couldn't tell ya.

As for just getting started, I think most people start with whatever they have available. I was a kid when I started on a Timex Sinclair 1000. Couldn't do much so I upgraded to an Apple //c (woohoo). =b There's nothing more motivating than progress which happens best in small steps. So, even if you just download FreeBASIC and get something up on the screen that you can shoot at, you'll already get the taste for it.

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